Ernst & Young (3 Viewers)

[Meads]

I believe if you are going into the accounting related divisons (like AABS at EY), then you will most definately need to do an accounting major in your degree and you'll be required to be eligible for the CA program. If you're going into a divison that doesn't require an Accounting major (such as my divison), then you probably don't need to do an accounting major, though it's probably highly desirable if you are working in an accounting firm.

I'm not sure about many organisations other than accounting firms who offer cadetships. I'm sure there are some, but maybe someone else will know.

As for salary after cadetship, well you'll most likely be put on the normal graduate program (I'm guessing) after you finish your degree, so it'll be somewhere between $40k to $50k depending on your division.

Yeh you are right about the accounting major...AABS you need an accounting major, tax you dont. However when you are finished your traineeship you will not be put on a nomral graduate program (if you were what would be the point of doing a traineeship!? You will be behind!). You start as a consultant...so $50k+. On top of this, the idea is that you take half the time to get to manager than somebody who start as a grad. Afterall, you have alot of experience under your belt.

In regards to doing a double degree at EY (that is what my contract says im doing although im not enrolled in a double yet) it works the same as the 2+2 program for a single degree, except you add two more years of full time uni with part time work at the end of the four years. So yeh, it will take you six years to do the degree.

 

[jase_]

Oh alright then, my bad. That makes more sense then Thanks Meads.

 

[icycloud]

In regards to doing a double degree at EY (that is what my contract says im doing although im not enrolled in a double yet) it works the same as the 2+2 program for a single degree, except you add two more years of full time uni with part time work at the end of the four years. So yeh, it will take you six years to do the degree.

Thanks for the info Meads. But do you get the trainee grant in the extra two years? Or are you all on your own?

Also, what are the advantages of doing a double-degree if you're in the tax field? I mean the double degree means you can only have one major in the Commerce (most probably Accounting), but if you only do a single degree then you can have a double major (e.g. Accounting + Finance). So I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it worth the extra time and lack of double majors to do a double degree? How does it help your career opportunities in the accounting firm? (Does it at all?) Does it affect your salary? How fast you are promoted?

 

[lost_lil_anjool]

In the traineeship contract with EY, it says that there is a three month probation period and that your contract can be terminated at any time after that. What are the chances of that happening and in what cases could it happen? Could someone from EY please answer that??

Thanks in advanced

 

[Meads]

Thanks for the info Meads. But do you get the trainee grant in the extra two years? Or are you all on your own?

Also, what are the advantages of doing a double-degree if you're in the tax field? I mean the double degree means you can only have one major in the Commerce (most probably Accounting), but if you only do a single degree then you can have a double major (e.g. Accounting + Finance). So I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it worth the extra time and lack of double majors to do a double degree? How does it help your career opportunities in the accounting firm? (Does it at all?) Does it affect your salary? How fast you are promoted?

You won't get the trainee grant in the extra two years, because you will be working part time at EY instead. You would not want to take another two years of grant anyway, otherwise you will owe EY another four years of service to pay it back (this is not good if you want to go try other things).

A double degree has its merits in the tax field. Obviously tax is law, so a law degree is going to assist you in understanding everything. However, by no means do you NEED a law degree to do tax, and by no means are you going to get promoted any faster. You will earn a little bit more than those of the same position as you with only one degree ($3k more or something). A double degree won't hurt, and it is very handy if you plan to leave EY and do something different elsewhere. This is when a double degree looks good on your CV. Obviously it takes a long time to do, so another option could be to do a single degree, graduate as a trainee, then do post grad law part time whilst working full time. This way your not a trainee for 6 years.

In regards to the question about the probation period...you have to be pure shite to get the chop after the three months. It is not as if it is a tester period, where EY are looking to get rid of people. It is just a legal obligation that you will find on all contracts. Nothing to worry about.

 

[icycloud]

Thanks for the detailed and honest answer Meads.

You won't get the trainee grant in the extra two years, because you will be working part time at EY instead. You would not want to take another two years of grant anyway, otherwise you will owe EY another four years of service to pay it back (this is not good if you want to go try other things).

I thought you worked part time during the 3rd and 4th years anyway? (In addition to the trainee grant.) I'm confused!

A double degree has its merits in the tax field. Obviously tax is law, so a law degree is going to assist you in understanding everything.

If tax is law, wouldn't you need to understand law? How can you understand it if you've only done a commerce degree? Or is the law aspect of tax covered in the commerce degree as well?

Obviously it takes a long time to do, so another option could be to do a single degree, graduate as a trainee, then do post grad law part time whilst working full time.

But grad law part time is 6 years right?

So basically there are a couple of options (if i'm not mistaken):

1) Commerce (double major) (4 years), then CA.
Thus, by the end of 6 years, you would have BComm (double major)/CA

2) Commerce (Acct.)/Law (6 years), then CA
By the end of 8 years, you would have BComm (Acct.)/Law/CA

3) Commerce (double major), then CA, then part time grad law.
This would take 12 years! *dies*

This way your not a trainee for 6 years.

So during the 6 years you'd still get paid as a trainee? Even after you get your commerce degree after 4 years (and the remaining 2 years is just to finish your law degree)?

BTW if you do double degree, you're only allowed one major in the Commerce degree. Do people usually do the Accounting major if they're working in tax?

 

[c0okies]

good on ya icycloud; covering some of my questions as well =D

btw, if we're in the tax division, what majors are we specifically required to do in a commerce degree if we dont hav to do accounting?

 

[jase_]

Well doing a BComm or BBus with an Accounting major would give you the business law as part of the core subjects. It would also give you the introductory taxation law knowledge as part of the Accounting major. This would probably be alright for the tax division, but as Meads has said, a law degree is useful here as well. Are there any other majors that you can do in a commerce degree which has tax stuff in it?

I'm starting my grad position at EY tomorrow! I'll report back on how it is

 

[seremify007]

In the traineeship contract with EY, it says that there is a three month probation period and that your contract can be terminated at any time after that. What are the chances of that happening and in what cases could it happen? Could someone from EY please answer that??

Thanks in advanced

Most firms have that I believe- PwC, Moore Stephens, KPMG, EY, etc... it's pretty much a safety net to get rid of people who don't really live up to expectations I think. I've never heard of anyone actually getting terminated- usually the employee themselves can figure out that they aren't suited to the job/firm and move on independently.

However when you are finished your traineeship you will not be put on a nomral graduate program (if you were what would be the point of doing a traineeship!? You will be behind!). You start as a consultant...so $50k+. On top of this, the idea is that you take half the time to get to manager than somebody who start as a grad. Afterall, you have alot of experience under your belt.

True. You will start off considerably ahead of normal graduates. From what I've heard as well, before you finish your FT work component, you will usually have your remuneration set at a pretty high level (even though you won't have been paid at that level) so that when you come back to do work in the breaks or as a graduate, you're already aware that your salary will be better than normal grads. As for actual numbers, I think at that stage, salary growth is largely related to performance.

Obviously it takes a long time to do, so another option could be to do a single degree, graduate as a trainee, then do post grad law part time whilst working full time. This way your not a trainee for 6 years.

mmm that's what quite a few people end up planning; but then after 3/4 years of uni, alot of those who originally intended to study law post-grad (eg. my sister) end up just doing their CA, going secondment, and not ever going into law. Of course if you're in tax, then life is very different for you

I thought you worked part time during the 3rd and 4th years anyway? (In addition to the trainee grant.) I'm confused!

I'm not sure about EY, but you receive the trainee grant for the time where you're doing FULL TIME study; but once you work, you get the salary you were on beforehand (taking into account any increases).

If tax is law, wouldn't you need to understand law? How can you understand it if you've only done a commerce degree? Or is the law aspect of tax covered in the commerce degree as well?

I'm not sure about other unis but there's a BComm major on Taxation I believe- it's offered with Business Law and Taxation; and then after that you can either go onto Masters of Tax or CA; both of which will further your knowledge of tax.

But grad law part time is 6 years right?

So basically there are a couple of options (if i'm not mistaken):

1) Commerce (double major) (4 years), then CA.
Thus, by the end of 6 years, you would have BComm (double major)/CA

2) Commerce (Acct.)/Law (6 years), then CA
By the end of 8 years, you would have BComm (Acct.)/Law/CA

3) Commerce (double major), then CA, then part time grad law.
This would take 12 years! *dies*

Hate to emphasise this point but the point of a cadetship was to fast track your career- if you go and do something which'll take that long; is the remuneration/benefits at the end of the time really worth sacrificing all those years of potential full time work whereby you could gain real world experience and get paid proper salaries?

Anyhow your choice!

I bet if you chose 3), you probably wouldn't end up doing the grad law. By then there are much easier ways to getting promoted/salary increases (eg. work better!).... unless you wanted to change jobs of course.

So during the 6 years you'd still get paid as a trainee? Even after you get your commerce degree after 4 years (and the remaining 2 years is just to finish your law degree)?

You'd have to ask a double degree person that one I know your salary will get reviewed every year (or more often depending on firm), but whether or not you'll be classified as a grad is another matter- don't the unis hold back your degree/graduate status until you finish your entire double degree? *isn't sure!* ...

Hope this helps you a bit in making your decisions.

Btw, like I said, I don't really know that much about double degree- only a few people I know have attempted a cadetship with one; but ended up cancelling on the cadetship.

 

[jase_]

don't the unis hold back your degree/graduate status until you finish your entire double degree? *isn't sure!* ...

You can technically (well at UTS at least) graduate from one degree and continue the other, provided you have finished one degree. I don't know if the employer will technically recognise you as a graduate though.

 

[Meads]

Thanks for the detailed and honest answer Meads.


I thought you worked part time during the 3rd and 4th years anyway? (In addition to the trainee grant.) I'm confused!


If tax is law, wouldn't you need to understand law? How can you understand it if you've only done a commerce degree? Or is the law aspect of tax covered in the commerce degree as well?


But grad law part time is 6 years right?

So basically there are a couple of options (if i'm not mistaken):

1) Commerce (double major) (4 years), then CA.
Thus, by the end of 6 years, you would have BComm (double major)/CA

2) Commerce (Acct.)/Law (6 years), then CA
By the end of 8 years, you would have BComm (Acct.)/Law/CA

3) Commerce (double major), then CA, then part time grad law.
This would take 12 years! *dies*


So during the 6 years you'd still get paid as a trainee? Even after you get your commerce degree after 4 years (and the remaining 2 years is just to finish your law degree)?

BTW if you do double degree, you're only allowed one major in the Commerce degree. Do people usually do the Accounting major if they're working in tax?

You only receive a grant when you are NOT working at all, and technically that should be during years three and four of your traineeship, because you wont be working at all (unless you get asked to).

Tax is law only in a technical sense. A law degree would assist in understanding because it would help you understand how legislation is read and written, and how the government goes about upadting legislation. Law is by no means an essential in understanding tax however, it would just be handy i suppose.

I got no idea how long grad law is part time...six years sounds about right. However I would of thought the only reason the time it takes to do a degree puts you off because it is longer that you cant be promoted? Once you are not a trainee, promotion can and will occur, regardless of whether your in the middle of studying or not. That is why alot of people choose to do it post grad, so they can advance in the process.

Your options are correct in a way, although do not assume that you are going to jump straight into the CA program or masters of tax as soon as you finish your undergrad degree. Id say you would be waiting 6-12 months.

Alot of people in tax generally do an accounting degree yes. Afterall in the end you are working at an accounting firm.

 

[icycloud]

Wow Meads and seremify, I love your dedication in helping us lowly to-be trainees =D Anyway will the company support my decision if I choose to do post-grad law?

And seremify, the PwC contract states that it is a 'short term contract' which will be terminated in two years. So what happens in the 3rd and 4th years? Do I get a new contract for the 3rd and 4th years after completion of the full-time work component? It doesn't say at all in my contract what happens in the 3rd and 4th years. And also a position is not guaranteed after graduation like it is with EY?

And in both EY and PwC -- how many people get the trainee grant? Is there a set limit? Do trainees usually get it? Or do they usually not get it?

 

[seremify007]

Wow Meads and seremify, I love your dedication in helping us lowly to-be trainees =D Anyway will the company support my decision if I choose to do post-grad law?

Not sure about post-grad law specifically, but most companies/firms out there tend to be in support of their employees continuing their studies as it not only improves the people, but it also improves the firm.

And seremify, the PwC contract states that it is a 'short term contract' which will be terminated in two years. So what happens in the 3rd and 4th years? Do I get a new contract for the 3rd and 4th years after completion of the full-time work component? It doesn't say at all in my contract what happens in the 3rd and 4th years. And also a position is not guaranteed after graduation like it is with EY?

At the end of the two years, the firm will determine whether to offer you the study grant (and guarantee a graduate position). If so, they will offer you a new contract which will include the terms and conditions of the grant and future employment.

And in both EY and PwC -- how many people get the trainee grant? Is there a set limit? Do trainees usually get it? Or do they usually not get it?

I think anyone who is kept on will receive the grant. As for how many get it- I can't really answer that because I don't know. But out of the cadets I do know, they all received the grant.

Your options are correct in a way, although do not assume that you are going to jump straight into the CA program or masters of tax as soon as you finish your undergrad degree. Id say you would be waiting 6-12 months.

And let's not forget that not everybody will pass every subject in uni and every module in CA first time!

 

[icycloud]

At the end of the two years, the firm will determine whether to offer you the study grant (and guarantee a graduate position). If so, they will offer you a new contract which will include the terms and conditions of the grant and future employment.

Alright cool. That's a little different to the EY contract then because EY already tells you about the grant and the guarantee of a graduate position. This is such a hard decision!!! I think I'm going to see my school's career advisor about this.

 

[velox]

mr watson. lol, waste of time.

 

[sxcsn]

havent received a call from EY not even a rejection call... I wonder if all offers have been made?

 

[=candii=]

havent received a call from EY not even a rejection call... I wonder if all offers have been made?

same

odd. they said they would let everyone know by monday (today). ah wellz give it a couple more days i guess therez quite a few people they have to get through.

 

[jase_]

First day at EY today. Had graduate induction today. Most of it was boring, but hey, it has to be done. Tomorrow's training should be more fun because it's mainly technical based and I like techy stuff

Food was good as well. I wish they would feed us everyday!

 

[icycloud]

Sounds cool jasee. What's involved in the induction?

 

[jase_]

Just learning about the firm, like values and culture and all that stuff, as well as technical technology training.