Karlmarx
Member
The Morality of the Christian God:
Socrates asks Euthyphro, ‘Is the good loved by the gods because it is good, or is it good because it is loved by the gods?’ This question allows one to ponder ‘wether justice and goodness are arbitrary or wether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things’ – Leibniz.
The first part of this dilemma (i.e. that which is right is commanded by God because it is right), presents the idea that there are independent moral standards that are right or wrong, independent of God’s commands. This part, however, faces several problems:
Morality without God: If moral standards exist independent of God, then morality would retain it’s authority even if God did not exist. If this is the case, what do we think of God? If he does not set out the moral foundations of man, then moral arguments for God’s existence are unable to stand ground.
Omnipotence: These independent moral standards would limit God’s power: not even God could oppose them by commanding what is evil and thereby making them good. This limit’s God’s ability to be omnipotent, and therefore, putting into question the Bible.
‘But with God all things are possible.’ - Matthew 19:24-26
Sovereignty: Assuming there are moral standards (which I have discussed that there are) independent of God’s will, then, there is something over which God is not sovereign. God is more bound by the laws of morality, rather then being their establisher. If God is not sovereign, and rather, bound, then who are we worshipping in Chapel?
The second part of this question (i.e. that which is right is right because it is commanded by God) is sometimes known as The Divine Command Theory. To be brief, it is the view that there are no moral standards other than God’s will: without God, nothing is right or wrong. This also faces problems:
No morality without God: If all morality is a matter of God’s will, then if God does not exist, there is no morality. ‘If God does not exist, everything is permitted’ – Dostoevsky. But, if one asks himself if he has morals, regardless of religious preference, one would imagine that the answer would be ‘Yes’. If so, is morality a sheer illusion, or, is God the illusion?
Moral contingency: ‘Any right action could have easily been wrong, if God had so decided, and an action which is right today could easily become wrong tomorrow, if God so decides. Indeed, some have argued that divine command theory is incompatible with ordinary conceptions of moral supervenience.’ - Klagge, James C. "An Alleged Difficulty Concerning Moral Properties" (1984), pp. 374-375.
No reasons for morality: If there is no moral standard, other than God’s will, then God’s commands are arbitrary. This means that morality is not based on reason.
No reasons for God: This arbitrariness would also put into question God’s status as a wise and rational being, one who always (because of his inability to act otherwise) acts on good reasons only. “Where will be his justice and his wisdom if he has only a certain despotic power, if arbitrary will takes the place of reasonableness, and if in accord with the definition of tyrants, justice consists in that which is pleasing to the most powerful? Besides it seems that every act of willing supposes some reason for the willing and this reason, of course, must precede the act." Leibniz, Discourse on Metaphysics (1686), II
I think this article is not about who is right or wrong, rather, who is observing the ideas that encompass our lives. Respect the concept of God, but always, maintain an open mind.
"The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization."
-- Robert A. Wilson
Socrates asks Euthyphro, ‘Is the good loved by the gods because it is good, or is it good because it is loved by the gods?’ This question allows one to ponder ‘wether justice and goodness are arbitrary or wether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things’ – Leibniz.
The first part of this dilemma (i.e. that which is right is commanded by God because it is right), presents the idea that there are independent moral standards that are right or wrong, independent of God’s commands. This part, however, faces several problems:
Morality without God: If moral standards exist independent of God, then morality would retain it’s authority even if God did not exist. If this is the case, what do we think of God? If he does not set out the moral foundations of man, then moral arguments for God’s existence are unable to stand ground.
Omnipotence: These independent moral standards would limit God’s power: not even God could oppose them by commanding what is evil and thereby making them good. This limit’s God’s ability to be omnipotent, and therefore, putting into question the Bible.
‘But with God all things are possible.’ - Matthew 19:24-26
Sovereignty: Assuming there are moral standards (which I have discussed that there are) independent of God’s will, then, there is something over which God is not sovereign. God is more bound by the laws of morality, rather then being their establisher. If God is not sovereign, and rather, bound, then who are we worshipping in Chapel?
The second part of this question (i.e. that which is right is right because it is commanded by God) is sometimes known as The Divine Command Theory. To be brief, it is the view that there are no moral standards other than God’s will: without God, nothing is right or wrong. This also faces problems:
No morality without God: If all morality is a matter of God’s will, then if God does not exist, there is no morality. ‘If God does not exist, everything is permitted’ – Dostoevsky. But, if one asks himself if he has morals, regardless of religious preference, one would imagine that the answer would be ‘Yes’. If so, is morality a sheer illusion, or, is God the illusion?
Moral contingency: ‘Any right action could have easily been wrong, if God had so decided, and an action which is right today could easily become wrong tomorrow, if God so decides. Indeed, some have argued that divine command theory is incompatible with ordinary conceptions of moral supervenience.’ - Klagge, James C. "An Alleged Difficulty Concerning Moral Properties" (1984), pp. 374-375.
No reasons for morality: If there is no moral standard, other than God’s will, then God’s commands are arbitrary. This means that morality is not based on reason.
No reasons for God: This arbitrariness would also put into question God’s status as a wise and rational being, one who always (because of his inability to act otherwise) acts on good reasons only. “Where will be his justice and his wisdom if he has only a certain despotic power, if arbitrary will takes the place of reasonableness, and if in accord with the definition of tyrants, justice consists in that which is pleasing to the most powerful? Besides it seems that every act of willing supposes some reason for the willing and this reason, of course, must precede the act." Leibniz, Discourse on Metaphysics (1686), II
I think this article is not about who is right or wrong, rather, who is observing the ideas that encompass our lives. Respect the concept of God, but always, maintain an open mind.
"The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization."
-- Robert A. Wilson
