Flag Burners (2 Viewers)

[_dhj_]

As someone stated earlier in the thread, it's burning a flag, not something real like burning a human being (beyond the material flag itself). In terms of what the flag represents, the burning is at worst equivalent to insulting Australia in public and denouncing what it stands for (although I think the latter is far more direct and the flag can stand for political symbols- e.g. monarchy, and not merely "Australia"). To ban the denouncing of a country in public is contrary to freedom of speech as the act itself does not to a violate any other rights to a sufficient degree.

I think the mere act of announcing hatred or detestment of the country in public should not be sufficient for the person to be criminally charged. On the other hand, to do so through the medium of television or radio might be sufficient for the act to become criminal considering the public outcry and disorder it would likely arouse. It's all a matter of balancing freedom of speech with public order.

 

[regul8]

Bullshit. His apology wasn't sincere. His apology was due to increasing pressure by the RSL and by the Australian public. He was and is a little punk.
Oh boo hoo, let's not humiliate the poor dear. By burning the Australian flag he is quite obviously making a statement that says he does not consider himself Australian.
Good, fuck off.

As for your dot point number 3, I'm not even going to bother addressing it with much effort because you're a moron who says 'der' instead of their. You also seem to get 'Iraq' confused with 'The Middle East'. Last time I checked, Iraq wasn't the only crap hole that composed the Middle East. Saddam Hussein was also not the first oppressive dictator in the Middle East, nor will he be the last.
Also if you note, North Korea is a third world crap hole.

LOL, omganotherartistthatthinksthey'reapolitician.

Take you're bullshit piece written by your misguided 'music artist' and put it somewhere useful. Like up your arse.

so you obviously dont want people like him to regret thier actions and are not willing to forgive. i mean most the RSL members that have fought under the flag themself have forgiven the the kid. but its people like you that have never fought under the flag and that are full of talk when it comes to the Australian way, that are making this inncident big 4 nothing. as for if his apology was sincere we'll never know but who are we to say it isnt. anyway who cares if it isnt its nothing we can prove. the cronola riotors used the flag to basically satisfy their own conscience that their doin nothing wrong. they should also be made to apologise to veterans for using the flag to justify racist views. now thats unaustralian, they didnt pay with their lives for us Australians of the future to turn the place into a war zone.

now id also like to add that "der" is is a term i learned from living in this country. its slang HALOOO and we are dicussing this on the net DERS no need to be formal in the way we type here. get with times mate....

no onto how i 'confused' iraq with the middle east. this was purposly done because both sides are regared to be the same. plus they practically look the same id like anyone be able to pick out an iraqi out of a line up of syrians, lebanese, palistinian and egyptian. basically there considered to be the same.

what Australia as to offer is peace and an environment without the constant fear of being caught up in a war. recently however i dont know how valid that realy is. there is a common misconception that these 'wogs' have brought no good to this country. Australia would be were it is today if it wasnt for 'wogs' that came here. true it was probly in pursuit of wealth but that all helped Australia grow. they were helping when others wernt. thats the beuty of Australia and im afraid soon we'll be saying 'that was' Australia. a world class multicultral society is what we have, and is what we should continue to push for. (the immigration laws arnt helping).

i see what you are saying about being branded racist if it was another countrys flag while in this case people are angry. this i believe was because their is a larger population or racists of white anglo saxon..... if it wasnt for that racism that existed in the first place no1 would have been driven to burn anyones flag.

Agentprovocater explained to rest... thanx mate

at the end of the day no Australian should accept disrespect to their flag whether it is pissd on and burnd or it used to justify racial violence. people like you katie_tully need to learn to be more tolerant, the language you used againt me for basically practicing my freedom of speach in a democratic country has realy shown what a fool you are.

i apoligise for my poorly constructed response i did it in a hurryyy.. once again ill post another link regarding the recent lebanese conflict. i wouldnt be surprised if it seems old 2 many
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bNiNS8TnJnI

 

[katie_tully]

lol. I need to learn to be tolerant?

No, fuckfaces that can't assimilate need to go back to whichever shithole it is that they pledge a higher allegiance to. Then I'll be tolerant.

Also, stupid people need to stop being born. And you need to learn how to spell.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Making flag burning illegal is crazy, it's like saying "people fought for our freedom under that flag.... now here's a list of what you're not free to do!"

 

[regul8]

lol. I need to learn to be tolerant?

No, fuckfaces that can't assimilate need to go back to whichever shithole it is that they pledge a higher allegiance to. Then I'll be tolerant.

Also, stupid people need to stop being born. And you need to learn how to spell.

u certainly counld never set any example for anyone willing to assimilate. u need to be tolerant to people before they assimilate because its not an easy thing to do. people are bound to find some difficulties in which they would need the support of the Australian people to allow them to go that extra bit that everyone wants them 2 be.

one other thing i would like to address is something that ive been hearing on the radio and from people, and that is that if the white Australian was to go to countries like in the middle east you will be forced to adopt values and assimilate. this i agree can happen but i know for a fact that these areas of the countries, which are very small realy, are usualy places even the locals dont visit... let alone tourists. but when i say the person will be made to adopt values or assimilate it would be nothing more that to have a wommen cover herself, this would only be for a shot time while in that strict area. there aree many tourism facilities accross all countries in the middle east (exept palestine i think we cant realy expect too much from them). the places are made to accomitate westerners like us theres everything beaches, night clubs, casinos, alcohol, tourist tours, cruises and others to attract people to go there. and realy there treatment to tourists especialy when they see you speak english, is first class. now i no thiis is somewhat a little bit different in the case of Australia as people are coming here not as tourists but to live here. but infact i have a relative living in one of those counties as he has been provided with a work opportunity there and his basically living the life of a tourist there beacuse he can afford to wit his job. not only that he's actually required to keep his skills which he has learned in Australia so he could help whitrh making deals with the US and others.

to say "stupid people need to stop being born" is very arrogant. to believe that people are born stupid and are simply born into the person they become is a much more bigger problem than using short cut methods to spell words.

 

[dieburndie]

lol. I need to learn to be tolerant?

No, fuckfaces that can't assimilate need to go back to whichever shithole it is that they pledge a higher allegiance to. Then I'll be tolerant.

Also, stupid people need to stop being born. And you need to learn how to spell.

I hope your child is retarded, you elitist trash. You'll only be tolerant of people like you who like to limit freedom according your conservative values.
I liked it better when you were gone.
Burning the flag could be a demonstration against anything, it might be a statement against the limiting of freedom in some way by the government.
Burning the flag could be an endorsement of the freedoms etc that the troops were fighting for, instead of what they were fighting against.
You saying that people should be punished for a simple act of dissent shows that you are the one who doesn't care about the values the flag represents.

 

[katie_tully]

The Australian flag does not represent the Australian government, tool. It represents the Australian people. By burning the Australian flag you're not protesting against the government, you're spitting on Australia.

The troops died for the flag and the freedoms it represents, therefore by burning the flag you are spitting on everything they sacrificed.

As for the arse clown who thinks that it's my attitude that stops people from assimilating, ha ha. My family came from Italy. I'm not a 6th generation Australian, I'm not even a 3rd generation Australian. If anything I am an example of assimilation, because instead of joining the 'omg everybody is racist against our culture bandwagon' I am standing up for the flag and everything it represents.

 

[regul8]

The Australian flag does not represent the Australian government, tool. It represents the Australian people. By burning the Australian flag you're not protesting against the government, you're spitting on Australia.

The troops died for the flag and the freedoms it represents, therefore by burning the flag you are spitting on everything they sacrificed.

As for the arse clown who thinks that it's my attitude that stops people from assimilating, ha ha. My family came from Italy. I'm not a 6th generation Australian, I'm not even a 3rd generation Australian. If anything I am an example of assimilation, because instead of joining the 'omg everybody is racist against our culture bandwagon' I am standing up for the flag and everything it represents.

ok so u must have found assimitating easier than others. its not about being rasist against culture. its about understanding that some people find it harder to assimilate esspacially when people are allways vieing them differently making them feel unwanted. this will make them clutch onto their home land values even more because atleast that way they feel they have an identity.

the burning of the flag can be interpreted in many ways. i mean the stupid kid was surely not buring the flag to insult our soldiers that sacrifised everything for ther freedom of the country. that can be just seen as an assumption but based on the timing of the incident and the fact the kid doesnt even know what RSL stands for..... all other assuptons of insults apart from his geting back at the cronolla riotors who used the flag to sheild there guilt and hate. this doesnt make this kid innocent because he should of known better than to try teach these riotors with violence. basically on both sides the 'thugs' came out with realy angry misguided heads. they both were an insult to; the australian way, the freedom the flag repreents and the troops who fought to put the country on the map. but it was the cronolla riotors that were a majority unfortunately that damaged the multicultral image of the country as images of them were aired worldwide.

 

[HotShot]

The Australian flag does not represent the Australian government, tool. It represents the Australian people. By burning the Australian flag you're not protesting against the government, you're spitting on Australia.

The troops died for the flag and the freedoms it represents, therefore by burning the flag you are spitting on everything they sacrificed.

As for the arse clown who thinks that it's my attitude that stops people from assimilating, ha ha. My family came from Italy. I'm not a 6th generation Australian, I'm not even a 3rd generation Australian. If anything I am an example of assimilation, because instead of joining the 'omg everybody is racist against our culture bandwagon' I am standing up for the flag and everything it represents.

i dont think troops fought for the flag - more for glory really. australia was only under thread in WW2. really that up in darwin.

burning it down is bad - but burning anything down is bad? everything represents something. like ur house would represent place of security, family etc.

i just think ppl like you blow this completely out of proportion. there are so many other things going around - and this seems to worry ppl - is just sad. there talks on the radio about - i mean srs throughout history hundreds of flags have been burnt.

as far i am concerned this flag- doesnt reflect freedom nor does it relfect australian values - at the moment they way ppl are reacting it just shows how racist Australia is.

if a white australian trash kid did the same- it wouldnt have been a n issue but because he was leb we have to pick on him.

assimiliation - i dont understand why should they have to assimiliate - doesnt that go against freedom? the reason why ppl come here is not to assimiliate but to practice their beliefs which they couldnt in their own countries.

look what happened to aborginies u ruined an entire generation like squashing a banana. wasnt tehre an some australian police that killed an aborginal when he was jail? why dont we deport him - i dont think he assimiliated well- oh wait he is white - no we cant do that.

Wake up Tully- there 6 billion ppl out there and every single on of them have different beliefs and they have every right to do so. the fact is the world is becoming one - people are moving about a lot more - learnt to accept that ppl have differing views.

the fact is there are lots of lebanese australians or any other race that are australians - that are settled here and are part of the community. of course like anything there is minority that screws things up - obviosuly they need to be punished. but there is no need just because of this minority to go picking on others just because they look threatening or they look different. I was just saying how the world sees australia as one the most rascist countries in the world in other thread. its stupid things like this that ruin australia's image. it only takes one small thing to screw it up.

 

[54247]

I agree with the many people who have the idea that "yes" the flagburner was an idiot. He probably had a bad experience and thought that burning the flag was a good way to releave his anger. I also agree with those people who say why make such a big fuss!! Yet at the end of the day yes he is totally in the wrong

But what annoys me the most are the people with double standards. Lets take for instance

--Aryanbeauty--
"The flag means a lot to certain people such as soldiers. They should be sensitive to other peopl's feelings if they want others not to draw muhammad cartoons"

This bloke then has this huge picture of the IOF (Israeli Offence Force).
What a hypocrite!!!! I mean the IOF slaughter daily and basically illegally occupy Palestine. They have no feelings for the Palestinian flag. The IOF are certainly not "sensitive to other peoples feelings" i mean lets just take a small example coincidently lebanon. 750 CIVILIANS in a period app a month and the atrocities of the IOF just go on and on. I mean yes Hezbollah kidnapped etc but that dsnt give them the right to blow 750 civilians.

Now sorry for the sidetrack

Now how can someone with such support of such an organisation possibly make his remarks of the flagburner if what he stands for has "no feeling".

As far as im concerned if we as Australians want none if this racial rubbish of burning flags or Cronulla styled events then people need to look within themselves and assess their own values. By fixing yourself up first [honestly] then we can have a proper non-racial discriminant society. Double standards will only worsen the situation as ignorance has no good out comes.

Im not referring to all people in this thread just the few i noticed whilst reading through

 

[*hopeful*]

lol. I need to learn to be tolerant?

No, fuckfaces that can't assimilate need to go back to whichever shithole it is that they pledge a higher allegiance to. Then I'll be tolerant.

Also, stupid people need to stop being born. And you need to learn how to spell.

its highly likely that most of the fuckfaces ur referring to wouldnt live anywhere else given the chance, its a piece of cloth to some, doesnt mean nothing to burn it etc etc
doesnt make them an australia-hater....

 

[Aryanbeauty]

if a white australian trash kid did the same- it wouldnt have been a n issue

Flag burning is an issue whether the person who did it is white or not. In 2002 Elzabeth O Shea burned Australian and US flag and it was an issue, covered widely in the press. She was not charged because she did not STOLE the flag from someone. The person who burned this flag during the riot did it to show his despise for australia, in the context of racial riot in Cronulla. His intention was CLEAR. He did not burn it to keep himself warm. He burn it because he was to show how much he disrespect Australia and its symbol, whether he is an australian or not is not an issue. The fact that he stole the flag from RSL club clearly supports this.

In 2006 Hadi Khawaja was sentenced to prison by Sutherland Local Court following the 'Cronulla Riots' of December 2005. He had pleaded guilty to malicious damage after stealing an Australian flag, subsequently set alight by an associate, at the Brighton-le-Sands RSL Club. Khawaja was later charged with kidnapping two men five days after the burning http://www.caslon.com.au/flagfiresnote1.htm

I was just saying how the world sees australia as one the most rascist countries in the world in other thread

I am not australian and I do not consider australia racist at all, if it was that bad millions of tourists will not visit australia. They all knew it was a riot CAUSED by muslims and lebanese thugs and the world knows how these people created riot in Sydney, London, paris, stockholm, copenhagen or anywhere. Do not assume that they dont know the root cause of the riot.

This bloke then has this huge picture of the IOF (Israeli Offence Force).
What a hypocrite!!!! I mean the IOF slaughter daily and basically illegally occupy Palestine.

Are you a Palestinian? Did the flag make you shudder in fear whenever you see my signature?

 

[Aryanbeauty]

No you are not, you are actually one of those muslims who created multiple account just to bash on jews and america.

You are ashamed of your arab roots and claimed jews to bash other poeple so as to gain legimtimacy for your cause.

You are exposed.

 

[bshoc]

Flag burners need a harsher penalty than just a slap on the wrist, people have died for what that flag stands for.

 

[dieburndie]

Flag burners need a harsher penalty than just a slap on the wrist, people have died for what that flag stands for.

People have died for what the nazi flag stands for.
People have died for what the confederate flag stands for.
So fucking what? Should people be punished for burning those too?
Construct a real argument please.

 

[otay]

Agree with bshoc, Burning the flag should be punishable more severely. There are other forms of protest other than bruning something which many have died for.

However, the response to the kid who did it holding the flag on Anzac Day have been disgraceful. People saying they would chuck shit at him abuse him. I'm sorry but i'm a proud Aussie and that is just not Australian, depsite what some people may think. Forgiveness is part of the Australian way. Look at Wayne Carey, or Warney! Seriously, those people are no better than those who burn the flag.

 

[Stott Despoja]

Agree with bshoc, Burning the flag should be punishable more severely. There are other forms of protest other than bruning something which many have died for.

Many people have died for many things, otay, and I think that it would be best to say that nobody has died for the flag as such, but rather that people have fought under it in order to protect that which it represents.

That said, I for one would never burn the flag, and I would readily pursue other avenues of protest should the need arise.

 

[bshoc]

People have died for what the nazi flag stands for.
People have died for what the confederate flag stands for.
So fucking what? Should people be punished for burning those too?
Construct a real argument please.

It is a real argument, do you value the nazi or confederate flags as equals to the Australian flag?

To quote SP - If you dont want to root for your team, get the hell out of the stadium.

 

[54247]

Aryan beaty!!
Think what u want to think but just some words of advice dont let your ignorance lead you. You see you dont notice it but your always on the offensive from your first post onwards ??? Like which objective person would come up with "You created multiple accounts...etc"

Your double standards help to inflame and maintain cultural divisions.

 

[turtleface]

Good to see another topic degenerate into a Israel vs. Palestine slagfest

However, the response to the kid who did it holding the flag on Anzac Day have been disgraceful. People saying they would chuck shit at him abuse him. I'm sorry but i'm a proud Aussie and that is just not Australian, depsite what some people may think. Forgiveness is part of the Australian way. Look at Wayne Carey, or Warney! Seriously, those people are no better than those who burn the flag.

yeah i agree I'm amazed at how people lower themselves to the level of the people they are complaining against/angry at.

Last edited by ur_inner_child : Today at 9:46 PM. Reason: took out content-free/abusive or irrelevant parts

not being sarcastic: thanks for the disclosure, very innovative