Full fees for one in three students ... what do we think? (1 Viewer)

[timbk2]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/05/1070351792588.html


Up to 35% of course places will be available for full-fee paying students.

What do we think of this new reform?

 

[Huy]

I think I should go rob a bank now

 

[hipsta_jess]

i think its going back to the old system where uni was virtually only for the rich, which i think is wrong, i think everyone, regardless of income level, should be able to gain entry to uni with ease.

 

[Minai]

If it means better funding for universities, then good
I haven;t heard anything about the compulsory unionism issue though - I am against voluntary unionism coz I dun wanna lose the campus life

 

[Generator]

Voluntary unionism would be good for USyd students as that way we wouldn't be forced to pay for three organisations... But that can easily be disputed.

Full-Fee Paying students are only able to gain a 5 point advantage, which in most cases doesn't make any difference with regard to their performance within the degree, and only a few universities in this state offer full-fee paying places as it is.
Besides, the more money for the uni then the better it will be.


But most important of all is that we still have the HECS system, which is great despite the claims of student debt.

 

[Generator]

'The Government's push for voluntary, rather than compulsory, student unionism is part of another bill that has yet to be voted on by the Senate.'

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/05/1070351792893.html

 

[flyin']

I think it's bloody unfair. In some ways, (rich) parents can 'fund' their kiddie's degree, and that just ain't right. 'Fair go', eh?

 

[j-belle]

Originally posted by Minai
If it means better funding for universities, then good
I haven;t heard anything about the compulsory unionism issue though - I am against voluntary unionism coz I dun wanna lose the campus life

yeh but at least at UNSW the union pumps heaps of money into things that it thinks are good, like the weekly roundhouse dance party.. they get a few hundred to go each week, maximum. Out of 40,000 students, it is kind of a waste as less than 1% go to these parties..

Originally posted by Generator
Full-Fee Paying students are only able to gain a 5 point advantage, which in most cases doesn't make any difference with regard to their performance within the degree, and only a few universities in this state offer full-fee paying places as it is.
Besides, the more money for the uni then the better it will be.

No but it's the problem of that if the UAI for law is 99.6 at USyd for example, a student only prepared to pay HECS can't get in with 99.55, however a full-fee paying student can get in with down to 94.6 (if places allow). In terms of how hard each would have had to work in the HSC, how is that fair?

Originally posted by flyin'
I think it's bloody unfair. In some ways, (rich) parents can 'fund' their kiddie's degree, and that just ain't right. 'Fair go', eh?

I agree, it's fine saying that they can get those FEE-HELP programs etc, but they are going to have to pay them off in the end. Remember, in some of the occupations that aren't that high paying, some people are still paying off their HECS for most of their life. And HECS is a lot less than full-fees.

 

[jayz]

is there anything we (students) can do to stop/reverse these crazy political decisions? i dunt get it, y the hell did the gov and senate accept this new crap? stupid crazy pollies!

 

[flyin']

The universities as an academic structure is very underfunded in Australia. And if you can get students to pay more, than it'd cost them less?

 

[j-belle]

Originally posted by melbournian
Btw, its not HECS that is less than full-fees, its a government supported place. You have to use the new lingo. But yes, your point? If you really want to do a course, you are prepared to make the sacriffice.

Anyway, if people earn less they pay less back. Its quite simple really. Thus that arguement doesn't stick with me.

As to your first point, I think you understood what I meant by HECS being less than full-fees

Yes, if they earn less they pay less back -that's fine. But that the debt can remain such a large and ongoing one, means that some people will probably never finish paying it off, and it will eat away at their salary every year. And as I said earlier, that's from people who payed HECS in the past, let alone people who get into the full-fee paying schemes and have to pay a lot more back..

 

[Generator]

'No but it's the problem of that if the UAI for law is 99.6 at USyd for example, a student only prepared to pay HECS can't get in with 99.55, however a full-fee paying student can get in with down to 94.6 (if places allow). In terms of how hard each would have had to work in the HSC, how is that fair?'

It's practical. Besides, as Melbournian has said, there are options available so that the person may take that course, although if they were that set on a law degree then they would be willing to go anywhere rather than just USyd (although law schools may start disappearing soon).


A tertiary education isn't for everyone, which is something that must be remembered. Although I would prefer it if all undergraduate degrees did not make use of full-fee paying students, we have to realise that in an increasingly user-pays society every institution is being forced to monitor their bottom line, so these reforms (maybe they should be called 'reforms') are essentil in order for the teritiary institutions to remain competitive. They aren't exactly fair, but they are pragmatic, and without a viable alternative I don't see what else can be done.

I seem to be like Meg Lees or someone similar with all of that pragmatic talk.

 

[freaking_out]

i think uni shuld b free for everyone who is good enuf.

 

[johnwoo]

when you're stuck with international students who speak little english or dimwitted fee payers in a group project you will curse this.

 

[Mambomeg]

I think this sux big time. Based on the current HECS sustem, i will already owe over $35,000 by the time i finish uni. If i did fee paying, it would be $150,000. both are large sums of money. I would never, at this age, take out a bank loan for that amount of money.
John howard didnt pay anything for his uni time, not a cent, under labour government initiatives, uni was free. I'm not opposed to the current HECS system, i think it is good, but this new one is bullshit. sure, i can take FEE-help and do fee paying, but i still end up with an enormous debt.
Fee payers are bludgers who have parents with way too much money and who cant do well enough to support themselves, mummy and daddy have to help them get into Uni.
FEE PAYERS SUCK!!!!!
international fee payers suck too, especially americans who only come here because Australian uni's are way cheaper than American ones. international students should have to work as hard as we Aussies do to get in.
if our government wasnt spending so much money on stupid things like star wars missile systems we would have heaps of money for uni's. And i for one would have willingly forfeited my $4 tax break if it meant the buildings i studied in didnt look like they were about to fall down.

 

[j-belle]

In the past (even this year), UNSW hasn't allowed full-fee payers into the MBBS (Med) or the B.Psychology. I believe this may be changing (at least with med). The uni guarded these 2 courses before, and now they are letting the fee-payers in -do you think this showed double standards in the past? Or that these 2 courses really should have been guarded?

Even in this years B.Psychology, the few international students achieved the equivalent of a very-high 90's UAI (measured through GPA or something), and still have to pay around $20,000 per year.

Originally posted by Asquithian
UAI is of little importance in terms of their ability at uni

yeh, but that's a whole other issue.

Originally posted by Mambomeg
international students should have to work as hard as we Aussies do to get in.

Trust me, at least in med and psychology, we have to get grades that are much higher than the equivalent UAIs required here by local students..

 

[White Rabbit]

Ya know, Melb. I kinda agree with you. Not all full fee paying places are filled by snobby little rich kids who will probably never know a decent day of hard work in their lives. There are people who have worked to get into their courses, make sacrifices to pay full fee paying places, and genuinly deserve to be where they are.

But what you fail to realise, that below that class that has the financial capacity to pay full fee paying, even if it involves loans and repayments for the next decade, that, to fill a full fee place, is just impossible. For us, there is only HECS. You may think Mambomeg is 'as stingy as fuck', but you are clearly ignorant to believe that EVERYBODY has ability to pay, at least $15,000 for a degree.

Go across the Western Suburbs of Sydney, housing commission estates and other areas with a low socio-economic status, and ask those parents if they can afford to pay fees for their children, no matter how much they worked, in order to obtain a University degree. I can tell you now, the general consenus would be a flat No. They are not 'Stingy as Fuck', they are simply the working class of Australia who don't have that kind of money lying around, and are not in a possition to take out loans to be their children through University. Is it their fault? Usually, no it's not. It because their parents were born into that class, as where their parents parents..ect yadda... You get it.

Sure, we need a certian ammount of fee payers for Uni's to function, but to deny those of low socio-economic standing a place at University that they have worked their arses off to achive, simply because their mummies and daddies aren't able to pay for it? Thats unfair and wrong.

I know for a fact my mum could never afford to pay full fees for me, and yes, I accept that. But then again, I work around it.

but they are prepared to make sacrifices for my education, especialyl since I made so much effort. You are just a sook, who are clearly as stingy as fuck.

My mum has made alot of sacrifices for me and my siblings, and if she had the money, I no doubt she'd offer to pay for my Uni fees, but, obviously, unlike you're parents, it's impossible for mine to do so. To imply that other parents aren't prepared to make sacrifices for their children simply because they can not hand over serveral thousand dollars a year, I find deeply offensive. You'd find children who have made it to Year 12, and are applying for university entrance, and their parent/s are in financial hardship and it is down right impossible for them to fund the higher education of one of their children, have made alot more sacrifices for the well being of their children their whole lives. So, melbournian, I sugest you get off your very ignorant high horse, and that YOU stop making such offensive generalisations, such as calling every single person who is unable to afford fees 'Stingy as Fuck'. You're just proving how much of a dick you really are.

Liberals, there's nothing worse.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

There is no way I could afford to go to university if I had to pay full fees. Actually, I probably could get there eventually but it would be mighty difficult to save up that sort of money. Plus it would make it hard to get a house/car in the future because I would probably have to take out a big loan just to go to uni. So I think it sucks. I've worked my ass off all year trying to get the marks.... I would then have to work my ass off probably for at least 2 years in order to get enough money together to start a degree. While some kiddies could sleep their way through the HSC and then open up mummy and daddy's wallet and take out enough money to buy them a place in a full fee course.

So, I think you know what I think. It sucks. It's very inequitable.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Originally posted by melbournian
My mummy and daddy aren't rich, but they are prepared to make sacrifices for my education, especialyl since I made so much effort.

Well, if my mummy and daddy were going to make a sacrifice which enabled me to go in to a full fee course they would have to probably sell our house. They have already made sacrifices, they do all the time, they work their asses off but what can you do? They shouldn't have to sacrifice so much after I have sacrificed my time to study and work hard. And they have already sacrificed luxuries for themselves so that we never ever went without even when business was tough.

Don't you dare call people fucking tightasses.... pull your head out of your ass and see the reality of the world. Full fees are not an option for a lot of people, and a lot of them are smart and deserve a place in university, and will work harder and be better citizens that some of the elitists who purchase their career paths instead of working hard for them.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

Also the financial burden is hugely increased for rural students. To do the top courses we have to move to the city and the cost is enormous! That alone is a big enough financial burden for myself and my family. There is nothing here that is even mildly related to what I want to do... arts degrees at CSU here have similar stuff to what is in the English Extension 1 HSC course! I have to move away, and that only increases the costs of going to uni.