Gay marriage insidious and dangerous, says the Pope (2 Viewers)

[brendroid]

Excuse me Scorch, can I ask you something based on your last post?

You mention that people that do bad and are religious 'simply do not ignore the barbaric things', however I do believe the Bible does speak out against particular things such as homosexuality. With the pedophile priest scandal aren't they actually breaking that particular law that the Bible laid down, and as a result being dishonest to what they are supposed to believe? The pedophilia among some priests is bad, and the priests are supposed to be religious, but by commiting an act like that surely it is not being honest to what they are supposed to uphold?

Just trying to understand that last part of your post Scorch, that's all.

 

[SnowFox]

The pope's a dope.

 

[Scorch]

Excuse me Scorch, can I ask you something based on your last post?

You mention that people that do bad and are religious 'simply do not ignore the barbaric things', however I do believe the Bible does speak out against particular things such as homosexuality. With the pedophile priest scandal aren't they actually breaking that particular law that the Bible laid down, and as a result being dishonest to what they are supposed to believe? The pedophilia among some priests is bad, and the priests are supposed to be religious, but by commiting an act like that surely it is not being honest to what they are supposed to uphold?

Just trying to understand that last part of your post Scorch, that's all.

I wasn't necessarily pointing to that as an example, but rather the propagation of such bigotry and inequality as the Catholic church's continual homophobic discourse. I would, however, posit that any church that doesn't propagate such bigotry is not really following the Bible on such issues. Modern day churches that attempt to be 'moderate' and 'reasonable' do so by clouding or obfuscating the violence and barbarity of the Bible due to a cultural consciousness that we all possess.

What I mean to say, then, is that the religious fundamentalists that they look down upon are really the only ones honestly following their holy book. I'm happy to answer any more questions though.

 

[deval]

According to Fred Phelps, the Roman Catholic Church is idolatrous and akin to devil worship.

According to Fred Phelp's he is one of the few people on earth worthy of god's grace and everyone else in the world is going to hell...nice to see ur quoting from a reliable source

 

[brendroid]

So, only the religious fundamentalists like Phelps are the ones honestly following their holy book? That type of 'bad' and 'barbaric' stuff? M'kay.

That's all I was curious about, I can see where you're coming from now.

 

[Lauchlan]

im not stereotyping here, but there is a trend that many Popes (in Christian words) 'will go to hell'.

 

[brendroid]

Seeing as some of Phelps' opinions are shared to varying degrees by other people (some may share his views on America, others his views on other Christian denominations), what he has to say some of the time can be useful as an example of extreme points of view. This, however, does come with a hell of a lot of bias because it's an extreme view.

History student ^^; sorry, kinda analysing his reliabilty there.

 

[scarybunny]

The pope

says


all sorts of stupid, vile shit.

 

[Lentern]

Good point. The catholic church just covered it up and allowed it to continue

None of those individuals did so because of their catholicism, they did it because of their own personal faults. No catholic doctrine or teaching inspired this.

Um, no. The Pope's bigoted aversion to homosexuality is actually entierly scripturally-based. People are good people because of their nature, and good religious people have to ignore an extra-large amount of evil present in their ideology of the world in order to do so; people that do bad and are religious simply do not ignore the barbaric things - they are the most honest of all.

I was talking about pedophilia but you still remain wrong. The bible did not descend down onto the altar at Saint Peters; Which writers should be included in it remains a heavily debated topic amongst both clergy and laity. The pope is bigoted because he himself is a bigot, the paragraph in Romans which no doubt you refer to is interpreted differently by thousands of clergy, thousands others question whether the works of Saint Paul ought to be in the bible at all. The pope is not one of those people because he wants homophobia to be immoral. You are the most deluded of all if you truly think the Church's current stance on homosexuality will endure the century.

 

[Gedi-Master]

None of those individuals did so because of their catholicism, they did it because of their own personal faults.

+1

You are the most deluded of all if you truly think the Church's current stance on homosexuality will endure the century.

Why would you state that he is deluded if he believed such a thing?

 

[Lentern]

+1



Why would you state that he is deluded if he believed such a thing?

Because at a grass roots level the tide of catholic opinion is moving strongly and swiftly away from homophobia. It's worth noting that quite alot of us think that far from having the conclaves real support per se, this pope was elected because the conclave could not reach an agreement and the then cardinal Ratzinger being as old as he was would do nicely as a short term gap filler.

 

[Jazuzi]

maybe they will progress unlike the bigoted islamics

 

[withoutaface]

Catholicism implies papal infallibility. If you think that a man who refused to act on sexual abuse claims is infallible, then you're paedophilia apologist.

 

[Gedi-Master]

Because at a grass roots level the tide of catholic opinion is moving strongly and swiftly away from homophobia.

homophobia....

actually, the Church's teachings on homosexuality are not homophobic, as it teaches that gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships is wrong, but it teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect and justice

 

[Scorch]

None of those individuals did so because of their catholicism, they did it because of their own personal faults. No catholic doctrine or teaching inspired this.

Well such events were entirely within Catholic precedent and had been done before. I would agree with you that the Bible hardly extends to covering up accusations of paedophilia, however.

I was talking about pedophilia but you still remain wrong. The bible did not descend down onto the altar at Saint Peters; Which writers should be included in it remains a heavily debated topic amongst both clergy and laity. The pope is bigoted because he himself is a bigot, the paragraph in Romans which no doubt you refer to is interpreted differently by thousands of clergy, thousands others question whether the works of Saint Paul ought to be in the bible at all. The pope is not one of those people because he wants homophobia to be immoral.

Actually I referred to a part of the Old Testament, but yes the paragraph in Romans is interesting too.

The very first developments in Christian theology involved inventing reasons to ignore the gross, barbaric and violent parts of the Bible. The response to the scientific discovery that many parts of the Bible had little to no basis in reality and the interpretation of the "true meaning" rather than "literal word" of the Bible was what dragged Christianity in Europe out of the Medieval Period.

So as I said, it remains for the 'common-sense' or 'reasonable' Christian to invent or justify ways to ignore the violence and barbarism in the Bible, but such barbarism is present. It is those that actually take the Bible in its entirety that are looked down upon as fundamentalists or extremists.

Has no one paused to think that these people are not extreme, but just the only ones that lack the common sense to ignore, obfuscate and cherry-pick the Bible?

You are the most deluded of all if you truly think the Church's current stance on homosexuality will endure the century.

It has lasted 20 centuries so far and the text of the Bible remains the same as it did then.

actually, the Church's teachings on homosexuality are not homophobic, as it teaches that gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships is wrong, but it teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect and justice

... and that's what we call homophobia.

 

[Lentern]

Catholicism implies papal infallibility. If you think that a man who refused to act on sexual abuse claims is infallible, then you're paedophilia apologist.

The doctrine of papal infallibility is extremely old and seldom invoked. The church is a continuing organisation which although slowly adapts and changes as circumstances dictate, papal infallibility survive much longer.

 

[Gedi-Master]

Good point. The catholic church just covered it up and allowed it to continue

Catholicism implies papal infallibility. If you think that a man who refused to act on sexual abuse claims is infallible, then you're paedophilia apologist.[/quote

Guide to Understanding Basic CDF Procedures concerning Sexual Abuse Allegations

i suggest you read this

 

[absorber]

Oh look another thinly veiled "lets all be intolerant, religion hating dickheads" thread.

Not much of a veil at all, really.

Religion should be criticised, the Pope has made a few stupid decisions in his relatively short time in charge. Catholicism needs to wake up to the 21st century, it seems they got stuck a few hundred years ago.

If yall believe in God, then why should the leaders of the church mean anything anyway? They're merely human, even if possessing some divine relationship with God.

 

[violentdelights]

the pope gives hope, he does not mope, he is the pope, the pope is the pope

popey popey pope

 

[mes ami]

the pope gives hope, he does not mope, he is the pope, the pope is the pope

popey popey pope

(L) I will have repping power soon