Hezbollah's Victory (2 Viewers)

[JaredR]

Murdering children quiet at study, in school, is the best way to seek peace, isn't it?

 

[bigboyjames]

Murdering children quiet at study, in school, is the best way to seek peace, isn't it?

PEACE? you speak of peace. lol the first and foremost step Israel should do is offer accommodation to the Palestinians that they kicked out of their homes.

 

[ZabZu]

so you think the killing of Palestinians so the Zionists could accomplish a Jewish state is justified? you do understand this so called Jewish state could never have been accomplished if such atrocities did not occur.

I've already answered your question. Page 24.

Given all whats happened since 1948, I dont think all the suffering, both Jewish and Arab, was worth it. A Jewish state should have been established somewhere else.

 

[bigboyjames]

I've already answered your question. Page 24.

ohk. so you do believe that there should be a Jewish state....but not where it is at the moment?

 

[ZabZu]

ohk. so you do believe that there should be a Jewish state....but not where it is at the moment?

Thats a difficult question.

With hindsight, the British and the UN were wrong to allow a Jewish state to be established where it is now.

However, since Israel has existed for 60 years and there are over 5 million Jews living there, I support it staying there. I believe peace based on the two-state solution is possible. Also, where else can those people go? Is there land set aside for a new Jewish state?

It will be almost impossible to force all the Jews out of Israel. They have an one of the strongest militaries in the world and its their ancestral homeland. Although there is the Iranian approach, make nuclear weapons and launch them on Israel.

 

[sam04u]

Thats a difficult question.

With hindsight, the British and the UN were wrong to allow a Jewish state to be established where it is now.

However, since Israel has existed for 60 years and there are over 5 million Jews living there, I support it staying there. I believe peace based on the two-state solution is possible. Also, where else can those people go? Is there land set aside for a new Jewish state?

It will be almost impossible to force all the Jews out of Israel. They have an one of the strongest militaries in the world and its their ancestral homeland. Although there is the Iranian approach, make nuclear weapons and launch them on Israel.

You sounded like a reasonable person untill the end of your post.

There is no evidence that Iran is producing or seeking to produce nuclear weapons. Quite the contrary, they have been cleared of any of those charges several times including by El Baradei of the IAEA - infact he stated publically that if Iran was attacked with the casus belli "they have weapons of mass destruction", he would resign from his position. Because that would be an astronomically baseless accusation

I believe peace based on the two-state solution is possible.

So does pretty much everyone else.
But when you get influential world leaders like McCain and Obama saying inflammatory things such as "we plan on setting up an American embassy in Jerusalem", you just start to think that there may have to be an all or nothing approach to this whole conflict. Especially when those comments are endorsed by the state of Israel.

There can only be a two-state settlement if the World Court orders, Human Rights, and U.N resolutions - all of which are contradictory to the current state of Israel are followed.

1948 borders.
Right of return.
etc.


Now get back on topic. This thread is about Hezbollah.

 

[JaredR]

Jerusalem, under the two-state solution would be the capital of both "Palestine" and Israel. Why shan't an embassy be placed there?

As for the 1948 borders, why are you willing to make such concessions now and not back then? Consider the Palestinians lucky if they get back all of the West Bank. Any more than that and they're dreaming.

 

[sam04u]

Jerusalem, under the two-state solution would be the capital of both "Palestine" and Israel.

No, that's just wrong.
East Jerusalem would be the capital of Palestine, the rest would be international territory.

Why shan't an embassy be placed there?

Because, there already is one in Tel Aviv where it should be.

As for the 1948 borders, why are you willing to make such concessions now and not back then?

I was around in 1948?
Israel shouldn't even be there in the first place. But since it is there, it should atleast be bound by it's legal borders. The legal borders of Israel are the 1948 borders. Accept it.

Consider the Palestinians lucky if they get back all of the West Bank. Any more than that and they're dreaming.

Those stupid Palestinians! Who do they think they are - dreaming to live in their own country! They're lucky if they get back a small portion of their country, dontcha'know.

 

[ZabZu]

Now get back on topic. This thread is about Hezbollah.

Sorry Sam i gotta make another comment about Iran.

You say that they're not making nuclear weapons. From my perspective, things dont add up.

Israel and the US have lots to lose from attacking Iran. The region is going to ignite and thousands of people will die. Iran will block the Strait of Hormuz (stopping a huge proportion of oil from the mid east), American bases in Iraq will be targeted, Hezbollah will attack Israel, Hamas will probably also attack Israel, Syria might get involved, etc, etc. If they attack they would take two factors into account: they have reliable intelligence and the consequences of not acting outway the consequences of acting.

Iran continues to say their nuclear program is their "sovereign right" and that its for peaceful purposes. Their program is shrouded in secrecy. They dont allow international observers and they refuse to accept the enriched uranium of other countries (i think Russia offered it).

Iran has designed its nuclear facilities so that they are well protected and there are numerous sites all over the country. Why? I think they want to minimise damage from an American/Israeli attack.

Iran has also ignored various international demands and instead chooses to have sanctions placed on it.

If Iran's nuclear program is only for civilian purposes its very easy for them to prove to the world that they arent making a bomb. Allow observers into the sites. Otherwise the US or Israel is going to bomb them.

 

[bigboyjames]

i would encourage the iranian theocratic elite to pursue a nuclear bomb. It is in their best interest.

 

[JaredR]

In 1948 the attacking Arab armies played with fire and got their fingers burnt losing a war to a country not even one year old and in their shame losing land that woud otherwise have been rightfuly and respectfully theirs as was recognised by the Jewish people who had come to call Israel home.

In the ensuing 60 years of Independent statehood, Israel and Israelis within Israel and abroad have been the victims of violent crimes of the utmost hatred. Bombings of buses, hijacking of planes and murdering of sportsmen at an international event established in the guise of peace and fair play. These people, Jews, were not directly responsible for the attrocities committed on SOME Arabs by SMALL sects of extremist Jews they were not the ones who instigated the 1948 war, they were not the ones who denied any right for the Jews to exist.

Even following the UNILATERAL (in which there were no plans or agreements made between Israel and the PA) disengagement of the Gaza Strip, southern Israel has been at the mercy of Qassam rockets, dangerous and unguided, hitting schools, homes and playgrounds. Is this a hope for the future where an independent Palestinian neighbour would become a new Arab enemy neighbour to the Jewish State of Israel?

Fact is the Arabs became complacent in their own greed, and considering their antagonistic behaviour over the past 60 years, which has significantly placed them in their current position, are in no position to be controlling the bargaining.

My science teacher used to say when we used bunsen burners. "You play with fire, you get burnt."

The thought of Jerusalem being handed over to the control of the United Nations is a thought scary enough though to demand it being given to the Palestinian people is even more disconcerting.

What you have now of East Jerusalem is a place better archaelogically preserved than through it's former owners. Israel has proven, for forty years, that Jerusalem is a place free for all religions. The Old City has been significantly restored and cleaned up. Here you have proven leadership for East Jerusalem.

When you attack someone and they fight back and you lose, what gives you the higher ground to stand on to demand what you lost back?

 

[Azurie]

My science teacher used to say when we used bunsen burners. "You play with fire, you get burnt."

The Mynah birds don't agree with you, beware

 

[bigboyjames]

not again Jared!

In 1948 the attacking Arab armies played with fire and got their fingers burnt losing a war to a country not even one year old and in their shame losing land that woud otherwise have been rightfuly and respectfully theirs as was recognised by the Jewish people who had come to call Israel home.

Pakistan went to war with india (cant reember which war!). Pakistan occupied Indian terroritry once the war was over. however, Pakistan went BACK TO ITS INTERNATIONAL RECOGNISED BORDER. its called being diplomatic and not igniting the sitution. somethind isreaelis dont know of.

]In the ensuing 60 years of Independent statehood, Israel and Israelis within Israel and abroad have been the victims of violent crimes of the utmost hatred. Bombings of buses, hijacking of planes and murdering of sportsmen at an international event established in the guise of peace and fair play. These people, Jews, were not directly responsible for the attrocities committed on SOME Arabs by SMALL sects of extremist Jews they were not the ones who instigated the 1948 war, they were not the ones who denied any right for the Jews to exist.

this is an emotional argument that doesn't acknowledge the facts or the history, nor does it take responsibility for the cowardly Zionist elite hiding behind main stream western media. you are nothing more than a propaganda tool.

Im not sure what is wrong with you Jared, but what you must understand, is that whatever the past injustices and towards jews, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on morality of Israel's atrocities. It just seems inconceivable that a pro-Zionist can even begin to discuss elementary morality.

Even following the UNILATERAL (in which there were no plans or agreements made between Israel and the PA) disengagement of the Gaza Strip, southern Israel has been at the mercy of Qassam rockets, dangerous and unguided, hitting schools, homes and playgrounds. Is this a hope for the future where an independent Palestinian neighbour would become a new Arab enemy neighbour to the Jewish State of Israel?

stop it jaredR. i can think of 50000000000 villages being bombarded by teh Israeli air force.

]Fact is the Arabs became complacent in their own greed, and considering their antagonistic behaviour over the past 60 years, which has significantly placed them in their current position, are in no position to be controlling the bargaining.

fuck the arabs. this is not about Arabs anymore, nor was it ever to begin with. its you sir who tries to twist this whole saga around. it has and always been an Israeli and Palestinian issue.

My science teacher used to say when we used bunsen burners. "You play with fire, you get burnt."

your sceince teacher is a slut. she shoved that bunsen burner up her vagina. that why she knows you will get burnt.

]
The thought of Jerusalem being handed over to the control of the United Nations is a thought scary enough though to demand it being given to the Palestinian people is even more disconcerting.

I'm sorry, but none of that justifies A) The illegal annexation B) The continued aggression and continued violation of international law, including resolutions that would be far greater in number had it not been for one of Israel's sole supporters in the UN - the US.

When you attack someone and they fight back and you lose, what gives you the higher ground to stand on to demand what you lost back?

Make this clear, This has gone beyond simply land. this is not about emotion, exaggeration isn't required when you look at the record. And the historical record reveals a legacy of terror, humiliation and breathtaking fascist ideology towards the Palestinian people. Just take a look at what Israeli prime ministers have said over the years reflecting this ingrained superiority.

 

[bigboyjames]

Sorry Sam i gotta make another comment about Iran.

You say that they're not making nuclear weapons. From my perspective, things dont add up.

Israel and the US have lots to lose from attacking Iran. The region is going to ignite and thousands of people will die. Iran will block the Strait of Hormuz (stopping a huge proportion of oil from the mid east), American bases in Iraq will be targeted, Hezbollah will attack Israel, Hamas will probably also attack Israel, Syria might get involved, etc, etc. If they attack they would take two factors into account: they have reliable intelligence and the consequences of not acting outway the consequences of acting.

Iran continues to say their nuclear program is their "sovereign right" and that its for peaceful purposes. Their program is shrouded in secrecy. They dont allow international observers and they refuse to accept the enriched uranium of other countries (i think Russia offered it).

Iran has designed its nuclear facilities so that they are well protected and there are numerous sites all over the country. Why? I think they want to minimise damage from an American/Israeli attack.

Iran has also ignored various international demands and instead chooses to have sanctions placed on it.

If Iran's nuclear program is only for civilian purposes its very easy for them to prove to the world that they arent making a bomb. Allow observers into the sites. Otherwise the US or Israel is going to bomb them.

if anyone's looking at how a leader should hold his ground when being bullied, look no further than Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He's an obscenely misquoted and misrepresented individual.

No he doesn't want to wipe Israel out, he wants to wipe out zionism.

And yes Iran is allowed to continue to pursue Uranium enrichment as permitted by the Non-Proliferation Treaty of which Iran is a signatory.

But the US govt still hounds Iran with sanctions, vocal and military pressure (not to mention that the threats are illegal under international law).

And in their typical double standards the US signs a deal to share sensitive nuclear information with India who have not signed the NPT and have already incorporated it in weaponry.

 

[Azurie]

your sceince teacher is a slut. she shoved that bunsen burner up her vagina. that why she knows you will get burnt.
.

This made me LOL

 

[bigboyjames]

This made me LOL

How dare you LOL? the suffering of palestinians at the hands of a tyrannic zionist regime is not funny. For all the talk about being gods chosen people, the Israeli elite are doing the work of satan. The irony could not be so perfect.

 

[sam04u]

Iran continues to say their nuclear program is their "sovereign right" and that its for peaceful purposes.

It is their sovereign right, that's a fact. Also, there is no evidence to suggest that it's not going to be used for peaceful purposes, infact the IAEA has cleared them of the accusations that they were producing nuclear weapons.

Their program is shrouded in secrecy.

No it isn't. It's very straight forward.

They dont allow international observers

Yes they do. Infact, they've offered international observers to observe all their nuclear facilities.

and they refuse to accept the enriched uranium of other countries.A

The point is for Iran to be self-sufficient (able to produce their own nuclear power), not having to rely on foreign entities.

Iran has designed its nuclear facilities so that they are well protected and there are numerous sites all over the country. Why? I think they want to minimise damage from an American/Israeli attack.

It's a basic design feature. Nothing sinister about it.

Allow observers into the sites. Otherwise the US or Israel is going to bomb them.

The U.S has refused Iran's offers to inspect the sites several times. Infact they wont even sit down with them. They're hell bent on destroying Iran.

 

[JaredR]

Pakistan went to war with india (cant reember which war!). Pakistan occupied Indian terroritry once the war was over. however, Pakistan went BACK TO ITS INTERNATIONAL RECOGNISED BORDER. its called being diplomatic and not igniting the sitution. somethind isreaelis dont know of.

1. Israel returned the Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace. Israel enjoys secure borders with Egypt without daily bombardment of Qassams nor it's right as an Independent, Jewish State tp exost called to question. This is not recipricol of Hamas.

2. I think even those opposed to Israel would agree of her diplomatic strength (and not just militarily). Though then they may just argue Israel's favouritism amongst the Western world as the anti-Semitic theory of World Jewish Control.

this is an emotional argument that doesn't acknowledge the facts or the history, nor does it take responsibility for the cowardly Zionist elite hiding behind main stream western media. you are nothing more than a propaganda tool.

Im not sure what is wrong with you Jared, but what you must understand, is that whatever the past injustices and towards jews, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on morality of Israel's atrocities. It just seems inconceivable that a pro-Zionist can even begin to discuss elementary morality.

It's an argument that recognises Israel's right to exist. Period. has been questioned by all facets of Arabic life. This questionability extends to anywhere where Arabs live, including here in Sydney (see Sam's earlier post)

I do not pardon nor excuse Israel's "attrocities" as a result of the Shoah (Holocaust). I do recognise the dangers she faces every day and security concerns that no other nation in this world experiences, I do recognise the targeting of her citizens wherver they may be, whatever their political ideology may be.

One could argue that traditional Zionism is at the heart of morality - the right for a persecuted people for millenia to have their own home and haven free from persecution.

stop it jaredR. i can think of 50000000000 villages being bombarded by teh Israeli air force.

1. I don't think the Gaza Strip has that many villages.
2. Attack by the Israeli Air force is in direct response to acts of terror committed against Israel by rogue Palestinian terrorists. Stop the terror and the air force will stop attacking.

fuck the arabs. this is not about Arabs anymore, nor was it ever to begin with. its you sir who tries to twist this whole saga around. it has and always been an Israeli and Palestinian issue.

Defining the attacking populations as Arabs is far easier than defining them as Lebanese, Egyptians, Transjordanians, Jordanians, Iraqis and all those populations that have been responsible (and are defined as Arabs) for repeated attacks against the heart of Israel, the recognised Israel by the 1947 borders. If their motives really were for a return to the 1948 borders why don't they simply restrict their terrorist attacks to areas that should have been Arab in the 1947 partition plan?

They ARE Arabs. That's why it's called the Arab-Israeli conflict. I don't feel correct in calling them Palestinian, as before 1967, they were either Jordanians, Egyptians or Syrians. It's a term improperly used, and coined mainly as an attack against the State of Israel. These people were content to be a part of other nations, not a unified State.

It is an Arab issue. It is Arab States who hate Israel. It is Arab states who attack Israel.

your sceince teacher is a slut. she shoved that bunsen burner up her vagina. that why she knows you will get burnt.

My science teacher was a male.

I'm sorry, but none of that justifies A) The illegal annexation B) The continued aggression and continued violation of international law, including resolutions that would be far greater in number had it not been for one of Israel's sole supporters in the UN - the US.

If you like the UN so much why don't give it control of Jerusalem? (Stupid idea in itself - the UN is pathetic, one has to only look at it's efforts in Southern Lebanon.

Make this clear, This has gone beyond simply land. this is not about emotion, exaggeration isn't required when you look at the record. And the historical record reveals a legacy of terror, humiliation and breathtaking fascist ideology towards the Palestinian people. Just take a look at what Israeli prime ministers have said over the years reflecting this ingrained superiority.

I agree. We need another Saudi Arabia in the Middle East. This is anti-Semitism against what you say in your avatar. You are welcome to be Anti-Israeli and Anti-Zionist without being Anti-Semitic, but when you go so far as to place all burden on Israel, without regarding the attrocities of the "Palestinians" and other Arab neighbours you set a different standard for the Israelis and thus become anti-Semitic.

You are an Anti-Semite that cannot be masked through pathetic avatars and soulless claims of loving Jews.

 

[Mothers]

Jared, you can't really be in support of McCain and Palin?

 

[JaredR]

The lesser of two evils.