High ATAR = obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring (1 Viewer)

[dp624]

awww
I like to think i'm intelligent
but seriously the majority of people with high ATAR/UAI are quite smart

 

[kenster92]

Anyone could get a high ATAR as long as they work hard enough.

 

[PROFESSOROAK]

"High ATAR = obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring, illegal teaching practices
No way related to intelligence"
Discuss.

Heard one of my friends talk like this the other day. I honestly don't know what to think, hoping to get a perspective on it from some ppl in highly ranked schools.

Jealously is a curse

 

[wsm91]

Well i go to north sydney boys and pretty much 85 percent are asian in my grade which do tutoring.
Ya im pretty sure they will all get an atar 95 plus..lol

 

[Shoot4stars]

LOL ; on some level yes this is true if you do have all these resources you will get a good atar ; most of the band 6 students are natrually intelligent there is a girl at my school who is getting 95% and rarely attends classes or school for a matter of fact she was away for half on the preliminary year and still got one of the highest in the grade
.... me on the other hand LOL

 

[Ben1220]

High Intelligence would correlate with high ATAR but it would only be a moderate correlation at best.

 

[addikaye03]

Without sounding too up myself, I think I'm on the road to getting quite a good ATAR.
I never received tutoring. I went to a public, co-ed school. My parents are not obsessive.

To be honest, I feel the dynamic between my parents and I was perfect for the HSC. They didn't pressure me in any way at all. They trusted I'd get the work done, and I did, you know? I barely ever told them how school was going unless I was getting an award or something. They'd be proud in those circumstances, of course

Tutoring and going to a selective school may have helped me go from a 96-98 to a 99+, but you need the motivation and determination to apply yourself no matter what is going on around you. Without it, none of the things the OP mentioned would necessarily help. That's my opinion though.

There will always be outliers though. Haha.

I was exactly the same as that+i completely agree. I went to a public co-ed school, not highly ranked, had a life all HSC, studied when required, kept up with summaries though and done all maths HW and believe i achieved quite an ok UAI (97.8). I took interest in my subject and used my time wisely i think.

I personally think:

Highly ranked school usually withhold a more competetive environment than others, this makes students work harder to keep up with the rest of the class. Also, a majority of highly ranked school students want to go onto tertiary education, this is minority in lower ranks therefore UAI isn't a big deal.

Tutoring isn't require though perfects knowledge if your the type of person who doesn't apply themself fully, as biopia said, get you from 95 ATAR-->99 ATAR.

My parent's knew that i done all my HW and wanted to achieve marks, hence they weren't obsessive at all. I haven't really seen what you say are "asian parents" so i can't add much on that.

Family guy;
Asian Father to son: "you doctor yet?"
Son: "Father, i am 12 years old"
Father: "talk to me when you doctor"
bahahaha

 

[boganxcore]

High Intelligence would correlate with high ATAR but it would only be a moderate correlation at best.

this.

 

[Scinery]

Your friend is right when he says that ATAR has nothing to do with intelligence

People who are interested in high Atar's obviously apply for selective schools for a reason --> the entire purpose of selective schools is to encourage higher achievement.

But i agree that the system is flawed when in year 6, asian/curry parents do force children through tutoring to make them goto selective schools.

In high school though, i think most parents slack off, and tutoring becomes the personal choice of the student.

Most kids in this thread seem to agree that the quote in OP is flawed.

 

[VNisbetta]

I think the more accurate statement is

low ATAR = stupid

 

[mastermind666]

I'd agree, if you flipped the statement

obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring = High ATAR

Having a high ATAR does not necessarily mean you have obsessive parents etc.
But...there is a strong correlation between obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring and a high ATAR

 

[possessionless]

that is utter garbage.

my friend came first in all her subjects. she goes to my school (ranked 409th last year), has never had tutoring/illegal teaching practices, and her parents are not obsessive at all- never forced her to study. she wasnt a study freak either- she just studied an average amount. yet her ATAR will probably be 95+ and im quite sure she will be dux

i think their family is heaps naturally smart though. her sister was dux when she was in year 12, now shes doing law and smashing it... she got some university award for coming first in her course or something... and she doesnt study ridiculously either!

woooo go dani i really really hope she duxes hey?
I have to study ridiculous amounts just to come 2nd to her LOL.

 

[roar84eighty]

your friend is at best an ignorant human being.

you cant apply an exact formula to the hsc, its not a science

"High ATAR = obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring, illegal teaching practices"

for one, id say relaxed parents gets you a better ATAR. intrinsic motivation is greater than extrinsic motivation (i believe science supports this one)

selective schools, it would help, but by no means does that equate to a high ATAR

tutoring, the lazy-mans method of studying. (see that other tutoring thread)

illegal teaching practices, i dont know what this means, but based on the last few points, im sure i can find an argument against it. for example, if a teacher used the whip, it would be illegal, but certainly wouldnt guarantee a high atar.

you could also make a case in this way

"High ATAR = obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring, illegal teaching practices"
is similar to saying
"relaxed parents, public schools, no tutoring, legal teaching practices = low ATAR"
and i think it is clear to see that the second equation is far from true

you could also disprove the argument by finding one person who had everything on the right hand side (obsessive parents, selective schools, tutoring, illegal teaching practices) but got a low atar, and im sure there have been a few of those

just so many ways to disprove

should have been /thread at that

 

[absorber]

People scoring in excess of 99 would largely go to selective schools because the competition drives them to excel. However, to get in they therefore need to be intelligent. Tutoring, really, will not dramatically improve the most brilliant students in my opinion- a teacher should be enough for them. And illegal teaching practices? Come on. But obsessive parents often do play an influence in their children's outcomes.

 

[posey-rose]

i disagree.

yes, obsessive parents can help you by making you stay focused on your studies. but then they can also make you hate what you are doing as you feel like you are doing it for them not for yourself.

selective school... no, i dont think that has really any effect, you get the mark you deserve no matter what school you go to.

tutoring... if you need to improve the marks you are getting then yes get a tutor. my friend got a tutor for maths and her marks improved. however, the majority of the smart people in my year didnt have a tutor.

hard work + intelligence + good resources (eg good teachers) = a high ATAR.

 

[Kakuzu11245]

I believe in trying to measure aspects like these in an equation to good results
would be something like, every person starts off with a mark, that they would get if they didn't work at all, lets say 80 for a smart student and 70 for an average, 60 for a stupid student.. then from here depending on the amount of work you do, your results will change, for example

Smart student does a bit of work and 80+4 = 84
Average Student does a lot of work 70+12 = 82
Stupid Student does little work 60+2 = 62

From here, we can say, that work is not defined by it's nature and origin, whether it be forced by obsessive parents or whatever, it's still work... although it may change the quality of the work, assuming the equation to how much work you do is something like time spent + efficiency = work done, and perhaps a student who is forced to do work will do less efficient work than one who is self-motivated but its really unimportant for the end result.

There are also certain traits/circumstances that can help students do well, including good memory, concentration, lucky (;D) organization, tutor ETC

So then we goo

Smart Student has a decent memory, bad organization, is not so lucky no tutor etc, Average has good memory great organization and tutors and the Stupid student just happens to have a decent memory and no tutors and bad organization soo then we gooo

Smart Student is 80+4+5 = 89
Average Student is 70+12+8 = 90
Stupid Student is 60+4+7 = 71

SO THEN I SAYY!!! There are many circumstances in which results can come from, but a smart stupid has the advantage over the average student, and the average student would have to do more work than him to beat him...there are also limitations created, that for example, A stupid stupid would have to do so much work and be soo lucky that its unrealistic, and high results are achievable but not very high, and smart students unless something goes wrong will get a decent result without much effort and then a lot of potential to get a good mark... thats what I think ;p

I also think that ur statement is created by someone who is attempting to excuse himself from his bad results ;/

 

[elmoateme]

The top two kids in year 12 at my school both got estimates of 99.95, however neither of them have ever had tutoring. Also, neither of them have obsessive parents. One kids parents want him to study less in fact because he has no life (mind you the other person is rather normal, just organised and very intelligent). Keep in mind this is a selective school.

As far as selective schools go, it's kind of obvious youre more likely to get a higher ATAR if you go there, because you have to be pretty smart to get in.

Tutoring helps some people get a better ATARs but that doesn't necessarily mean a tutored person is more l ikely to get a higher atar than someone who doesn't get tutored. I know some people who spend bucketloads on tutoring but still get flogged by people in tests who havent spent a cent.

 

[mastermind666]

What's with the repetition and the "new york escort?"

 

[lyounamu]

What's with the repetition and the "new york escort?"

she is an epic fail troll.

 

[x.Exhaust.x]

Family guy;
Asian Father to son: "you doctor yet?"
Son: "Father, i am 12 years old"
Father: "talk to me when you doctor"
bahahaha

YouTube - You Doctor Yet?

.