homosexuals (4 Viewers)

[ZombieApocalypse]

By the same token sir, are you God? Do you do know what God thinks, feels, his opinions and actual view, not his view as it is seen through the holy bible and been alter and seen through the eyes of mere humans. Christianity is a faith if anything, a belief system, God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit accept all. Who are you, who is anyone to say that God is against homosexuality, when there is not one single translation or view of the bible that can be proven correct.

I think gay and lesbian people should be allowed to get married ^_^


Why shouldn't they?

.

 

[Lentern]

wth why would you group pedophilia/other illegal immoral activities with GAY MARRIAGE?!
Gay marriage is between two people that love each other, they aren't abusing anyone , they're not mass murdering or even hurting anyone for that matter! T_T;

He's caricaturing the christian lobby, or possibly quoting them.

 

[Chemical Ali]

He's caricaturing the christian lobby, or possibly quoting them.

copied and pasted from the usual source

 

[Lentern]

copied and pasted from the usual source

Now I'm very confused coz i thought the usual source for pistakes was Getup!

 

[Chemical Ali]

Now I'm very confused coz i thought the usual source for pistakes was Getup!

news limited comments of course

 

[Lentern]

There is an extraordinary hypocrisy about this debate though, on one hand you have Simon Sheikh and Paul Howes saying its a cop out by Labor make it a conscience vote, that discrimination isn't a matter of conscience etc etc, yet in the same breath they're demanding the coalition absolutely must make it a conscience vote and that it would be such a dictatorial thing to do for Abbott to lock progressive libs into his personal views.

 

[cosmo kramer]

lesbians are faking it???

http://formerlesbianconfessions.blogspot.com/

 

[Phoenix Fury]

lesbians are faking it???

http://formerlesbianconfessions.blogspot.com/

That was actually quite interesting and thought provoking.

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder how true that bit about some form of abuse leads to a lack of trust and attraction as a cause is.

 

[qawe]

There is an extraordinary hypocrisy about this debate though, on one hand you have Simon Sheikh and Paul Howes saying its a cop out by Labor make it a conscience vote, that discrimination isn't a matter of conscience etc etc, yet in the same breath they're demanding the coalition absolutely must make it a conscience vote and that it would be such a dictatorial thing to do for Abbott to lock progressive libs into his personal views.

+1 (you'll notice everyone speaking out against the Coalition was for a Labor conscience vote, but undoubtedly those who opposed the conscience vote are even more for it)
also im surprised abbott isnt using the very justifiable argument that "we take all our policy to the election, and we took anti-gay marriage to the election, so we're not gonna lie like juliar"

It's a right that something like 90% of all Australians seem to enjoy.

"I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" - Matthew 10:34
"If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" - Luke 22:36"

Wow this Jesus guy sure sounds relevant in 21st century Australian society

Quote 1: There are 2 kinds of peace. False peace, to which Christ refers to here, is a shallow harmony that results from ignoring issues of truth. Genuine peace is a reconciliation to God through faith in Christ and surrender to truth. Genuine peace has division as a byproduct because not everyone wants truth. In the fallen world, divisions are necessary for truth to be manifest (see 1 Corinthians 11:18, 19)

Quote 2: The sword is not to be understood literally (compare vv. 49-51 and Matthew 26:52 - the event to which Jesus allegedly encouraged swords to be brought), but refers to the living word of God in the battle against sin (See Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12). Because the disciples were thinking of swords literally (Luke 22:38, a part of the encounter from which you quoted), Jesus abruptly ends the conversation with the words, "It is enough", or better translated, "Enough of this!" (see Deuteronomy 3:26; Mark 14:41)

So these quotes are relevant

 

[Bored_of_HSC]

you always look at the context (for every text anyone looks at): God speaking to Moses (I think), commanding these things as a Law for the people of Israel. Thus it's not and could not have been up for interpretation (in the sort of way you disagree with) with the children of Israel. The mistake you''ve made is assume that it's directly relevant to us just because it's in the Bible. You've ignored the central doctrine of Christianity, which centres around Jesus, and what his death and resurrection meant for God's people.

edit: with "any other text" people dont quote out of context, all ive done is argue based on the context

Yes but here context is irrelevant as these laws were meant to be for the whole of humanity for the whole of time (my eg was from the NT, and said by Jesus himself paraphrasing God). In what godamn setting/context would you condone that absolutism?
If you don't follow that particular bit of the bible why do you neccesarily pick and choose to follow other bits?

I know you're arguing based on context. But context is irrelevant here. In any context no one would condone these acts (from a western moral perspective ofc, which probably influences your morality more than the bible).
The fact that this is the bible makes you emotionally implicated.

 

[AgentGreeny]

+1 (you'll notice everyone speaking out against the Coalition was for a Labor conscience vote, but undoubtedly those who opposed the conscience vote are even more for it)
also im surprised abbott isnt using the very justifiable argument that "we take all our policy to the election, and we took anti-gay marriage to the election, so we're not gonna lie like juliar"



Quote 1: There are 2 kinds of peace. False peace, to which Christ refers to here, is a shallow harmony that results from ignoring issues of truth. Genuine peace is a reconciliation to God through faith in Christ and surrender to truth. Genuine peace has division as a byproduct because not everyone wants truth. In the fallen world, divisions are necessary for truth to be manifest (see 1 Corinthians 11:18, 19)

Quote 2: The sword is not to be understood literally (compare vv. 49-51 and Matthew 26:52 - the event to which Jesus allegedly encouraged swords to be brought), but refers to the living word of God in the battle against sin (See Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12). Because the disciples were thinking of swords literally (Luke 22:38, a part of the encounter from which you quoted), Jesus abruptly ends the conversation with the words, "It is enough", or better translated, "Enough of this!" (see Deuteronomy 3:26; Mark 14:41)

So these quotes are relevant

I don't care whether any of his quotes are relevant, the jesus gospels are fabricated stories based on the movement of the sun and the stars just like the stories of Horus, Mithra and Krishna, also most of what Jesus said had been said centuries before by other teachers.

If you'd like to open your mind to where Christian myths actually came from, do watch this video.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

I don't care whether any of his quotes are relevant, the jesus gospels are fabricated stories based on the movement of the sun and the stars just like the stories of Horus, Mithra and Krishna, also most of what Jesus said had been said centuries before by other teachers.

If you'd like to open your mind to where Christian myths actually came from, do watch this video.

all arguments no matter how valid (IDK bout yours didn't read/ care) are rendered invalid by referencing Zeitgeist

 

[AgentGreeny]

"Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

John 6:53-54
Mark 16:16

 

[Shadowdude]

"Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!"

John 6:53-54
Mark 16:16

Tell me AG, if you created life in a little mini-world and some of them just did things you detest all the time - would you not be inclined to one day just say, "You know what - I'm sick and tired of waiting for them to stop doing those things I don't like. I told them to stop doing it, and they keep doing it. Time to punish those who disobeyed me 5eva!"?

I know I would.

 

[Absolutezero]

Tell me AG, if you created life in a little mini-world and some of them just did things you detest all the time - would you not be inclined to one day just say, "You know what - I'm sick and tired of waiting for them to stop doing those things I don't like. I told them to stop doing it, and they keep doing it. Time to punish those who disobeyed me 5eva!"?

I know I would.

Ah, but you see the catch here is that you're not omnibenovolent.

 

[AgentGreeny]

Tell me AG, if you created life in a little mini-world and some of them just did things you detest all the time - would you not be inclined to one day just say, "You know what - I'm sick and tired of waiting for them to stop doing those things I don't like. I told them to stop doing it, and they keep doing it. Time to punish those who disobeyed me 5eva!"?

I know I would.

If I were omnipotent and omniscient and I created everything, I think it might be simple enough to comprehend that intelligent people won't take a mouldy iron age book at face value. After all I created them, right? Why would god create humans who do something he doesn't like, then punish them for it when he knew exactly what they'd do even before they were born?

 

[Shadowdude]

Ah, but you see the catch here is that you're not omnibenovolent.

True, true, true. But I'm wondering, does it really matter though?

If I were omnipotent and omniscient and I created everything, I think it might be simple enough to comprehend that intelligent people won't take a mouldy iron age book at face value. After all I created them, right? Why would god create humans who do something he doesn't like, then punish them for it when he knew exactly what they'd do even before they were born?

I said "If you made your own world and with free-thinking people in them, and they did things you didn't like - would you not punish them?"

We're not considering any 'mouldy iron age book' here, we're talking about the principle of the thing. The grand, grand picture. Again:

- you made a world with free-thinking life
- some did things you don't like
Punish them or not?

No book, no anything like that.


Also, about the 'mouldy iron age' book thing, would that not even skew the decision more? Then you in your little God-seat could say "I'm sick of waiting for them - I even wrote a book about how I think life should be lived and they still don't do it" and then punish them more?

We're not talking about why or whether the God knows if we'll do bad or not - that's a different question perhaps for later.

 

[AgentGreeny]

True, true, true. But I'm wondering, does it really matter though?



I said "If you made your own world and with free-thinking people in them, and they did things you didn't like - would you not punish them?"

We're not considering any 'mouldy iron age book' here, we're talking about the principle of the thing. The grand, grand picture. Again:

- you made a world with free-thinking life
- some did things you don't like
Punish them or not?

No book, no anything like that.


Also, about the 'mouldy iron age' book thing, would that not even skew the decision more? Then you in your little God-seat could say "I'm sick of waiting for them - I even wrote a book about how I think life should be lived and they still don't do it" and then punish them more?

We're not talking about why or whether the God knows if we'll do bad or not - that's a different question perhaps for later.

Well I wouldn't punish them for 3 reasons.

1. I created everything, set it all in motion. Whether you think god just banged the big bang and walked away or he interferes in reality, you can't escape the fact that if he exists then he already knows everything that happens and will happen before it happens. You can't "sin" because you already "sinned" in god's eyes, if we were getting into a philosophical discussion I would explain why free will doesn't exist but that's not the way this seems to be going.

2. Why would I even care what they do? Does it honestly matter to the creator of the entire universe, who created billions of galaxies, whether 2 people of the same gender marry? Can you conceive of any scenario where it would have any negative effect, anywhere, ever? If anything god wouldn't mind, because it's just freeing up space in heaven.

3. It's immoral to use infinite punishments for finite crimes. Even the OT doesn't have such a diabolical idea as eternal punishment. It almost makes me sick that we teach this to children like it's true.

 

[Shadowdude]

Well I wouldn't punish them for 3 reasons.

1. I created everything, set it all in motion. Whether you think god just banged the big bang and walked away or he interferes in reality, you can't escape the fact that if he exists then he already knows everything that happens and will happen before it happens. You can't "sin" because you already "sinned" in god's eyes, if we were getting into a philosophical discussion I would explain why free will doesn't exist but that's not the way this seems to be going.

2. Why would I even care what they do? Does it honestly matter to the creator of the entire universe, who created billions of galaxies, whether 2 people of the same gender marry? Can you conceive of any scenario where it would have any negative effect, anywhere, ever? If anything god wouldn't mind, because it's just freeing up space in heaven.

3. It's immoral to use infinite punishments for finite crimes. Even the OT doesn't have such a diabolical idea as eternal punishment. It almost makes me sick that we teach this to children like it's true.

You touched on something that I too would really like to know 100% but... unfortunately due to my non-diety status I can't. And that is, "If there is a God, does he know everything I'm going to do - or am I truly free from that and he does not know?" Arguments for both sides are valid, namely - "But he's god so he has to know all" and to counter, "Then well, if he knows all, why doesn't he just punish those which he knows will end up not believing in him", but then if that's true then we were put in the world as part of a grand plan and he already knows we're going to hell so... is that not unfair that he put us in the world fully knowing he's going to damn us to eternal hell anyway? (taking the Christian God perspective)


For point 2: Well, say you yourself made a world and you held the view men mating with men is disgusting. And then in your little world, men mated with men. Wouldn't you be angry? I mean, a bad example I can think of is children - say, if you told your kids homosexuality was bad, and then your kids turned out gay... nevermind if it's a correct view or not, but you as the parent would be pretty annoyed.

For point 3: Arguable, I will admit that.

 

[Azure]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=257055

If you want to discuss the existence of God