Howard's migration plan (2 Viewers)

[Optophobia]

I hope that the new immigrants will be able to join the work force and help Australia's businesses grow.

Of course you do. The economy is all that there is to life.

Therefore they need to learn english, unless they're going to work in some farm in which case they'd be working as slaves. (Eg. the farm around cape york that imports unskilled workers)

Introduce them, then if they need to learn english to survive they are compelled to. That's no reason to bar them at the immigration office. A lot of good has come from those who didn't speak english upon arriving in Australia. Now that i think of it, i know a few people who didn't know any English until they started kindergarten.

I'm also sure that we prefer not to have those immigrants to slomp here and be acquainted with centrelink. Be productive at least and contribute to the society.

Whether they speak english or not doesn't really correlate with their liklihood of receiving benefits. If it did, there still wouldn't be as many of them on welfare as there are 'fair-dinkum' aussies.
Centrelink benefits are a minimum wage. If they are on benefits, their kids certainly wont be. If they are, well then they can live a shit life, it's their choice. It's not the governments concern anyway, because out of every dollar that they give to "bludgers", they re-coup basically 100% of it eventually through taxes.

 

[sam04u]

Thats not a racist statement. Im cricitising elements of the Muslim community not the all Muslims.

Some Lebanese people (Muslims or Christian) go around in their sportscars looking for fights with European looking males.

Some Muslims call Australian girls as "sluts" because they dont dress conservatively like Muslim women. These people dont have any respect for Australian culture.

I heard on the news a few days ago that some Muslims (most likely Lebanese) in western Sydney were handing out pro-Hezbollah pamphlets saying that Israel has no right to exist.

Some Muslims disregard Australian law if it conflicts with the Islamic Sharia law.

These comments are all facts. You can call me what you want but the Muslim community has to do something to stop this negative image of themselves.

Listen buddy, people have a right to believe Hezbollah were the right force in this Issue, and many do. It's their right as an Australian, if you don't respect 'Freedom of Thought', or even 'Freedom of Movement', then I have nothing more to say to you.

Some Jews do the same, and some even do worse. I also want to see what evidence you have of muslims (who some how manage to afford expensive sports cars for leisure), yet apparently they don't work and they come from poor families? You're an idiot, a sports car is a leisure for a hard-working young adult. This is again apart of Australian sub-culture.

I also, don't see why you're making this invisible barrier and using only very extreme people as examples. Even in the small Jewish community in Australia, we also see hate crimes, racist statements (involving islam) and even murder and violence. (Man killed in Bondi by another Jewish man).

You say "Calling Australian Girls Slut's?" are you implying that they aren't Australian? Once again you're creating a barrier! Australia GIVES people the RIGHT to follow any religion they want. If they wanted all people to be 'Christian', then they would be breaking U.N Human Rights. (which no country can do.) Again, how often does that occur? Where you get a violent idiot who would say something like that to another Australia? It's quite rare, and is a result of what you're doing now. Creating a barrier through racism.

I also want you to prove people 'Drive around looking for fights', which is an obviously stupid lie. A racist generalisation, and definately an example of someone who has no understanding of what happens outside of Bondi.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Listen buddy, people have a right to believe Hezbollah were the right force in this Issue, and many do. It's their right as an Australian, if you don't respect 'Freedom of Thought', or even 'Freedom of Movement', then I have nothing more to say to you.

They don't have the right to call aussie girl sluts.

A muslim emphatically preaching about freedom in this board yet it's hard to find an islamic countries where freedom of speech exist. Criticism of Muhammad in any kind is an offence punishable by death in many Islamic countries.

 

[otay]

They don't have the right to call aussie girl sluts.

A muslim emphatically preaching about freedom in this board yet it's hard to find an islamic countries where freedom of speech exist. Criticism of Muhammad in any kind is an offence punishable by death in many Islamic countries.

Oi mate he's an Aussie living here, therefore he has every right as an Aussie to speak freely. Where do you bring the whole "how many islamic countries are free?" crap here. He doesn't live in an Islamic country, so it is of no relevance and it seems like you're just trying to piss this dude off.

As for you, are you Australian, Israeli or American????

 

[JaredR]

It's nice to see Mr. Howard isn't afraid to upset a small minority of people, who seem to interpret his comments as racist or defamatory.

It's quite a simple policy, and one which should be effectively implemented, as it has been done so in so many other countries around the world.

If you want to have that piece of paper that says you're Australian, or a Permanent Resident of Australia, it comes with it some privileges as well as some responsibilities. It should require the holder to speak our national language (and know more than just the Oath they read), it should require the holder to understand our history, and our government, for it is with this understanding they can know more about their own rights and their own country.

If we don't start to get serious, we'll end up like Britain - a cesspool for migration, little intergration and the possibility of allowing these anti-Western migrants to create sects of homegrown terror.

As simple as that.

 

[JayB]

Sam, a very very large number or marriages involving jewish people are to non-jewish people, the rate of intermarriage and assimilation in the jewish community in the western world is very close to 50%.

second of all, you are one hunred percent right in the fact that people have a right here to believe what they choose to believe about any conflict anywhere in the world. the only objectionable behavious on behalf of the more extreme radical areas are the attacks on synagogues.

thirdly, any country can break the U.N's laws. we need look no further than sudan and rwanda for evidence of that. the genocide that has occured there for years must be against some convention somewhere no?

noone has the right to call any girla slut based on how she dresses, no matter what religion, race or sect you belong to, especially not in a country that believes in equality and freedom. that kind of behaviour is un-australian yes. not because it is a muslim who is exhibiting it, but because of the behaviour itself. it is inexcusable for anyone.

 

[sam04u]

It's nice to see Mr. Howard isn't afraid to upset a small minority of people, who seem to interpret his comments as racist or defamatory.

It's quite a simple policy, and one which should be effectively implemented, as it has been done so in so many other countries around the world.

If you want to have that piece of paper that says you're Australian, or a Permanent Resident of Australia, it comes with it some privileges as well as some responsibilities. It should require the holder to speak our national language (and know more than just the Oath they read), it should require the holder to understand our history, and our government, for it is with this understanding they can know more about their own rights and their own country.

If we don't start to get serious, we'll end up like Britain - a cesspool for migration, little intergration and the possibility of allowing these anti-Western migrants to create sects of homegrown terror.

As simple as that.

Wrong. As Optophobia just said, and many others, this is his way of diverting some attention and hopping on the 'Anti-Arab' bandwagon, by singling out muslim-Australians. Infact, I've yet to find a muslim-Australian who doesn't speak English. It is however, sometimes difficult to fill-out complicated documents (for government and what not), even I can get a bit confused at times. Infact my mum has helped quite a few people with interviews and such things as a public service. Otherwise, most muslim-Australians, get along quite well and learn to speak the language at a pretty decent pace.

I'm just a little confused about one thing buddy. You automatically assume not speaking english will cause anti-Western violence? Quit being a racist Jew, who's trying to stir up this type of Violence within Australia. (Three Jew's, and all three spreading the same racist Crap.) I'm not saying the threat of terrorism doesn't exist, but which community do you think has the best ability to stop it? The Jewish community? I think people need to give others a reason to be nationalistic, and therefore work with the government. I know for a fact that if I suspected somebody was planning a terrorist attack I would report them to the proper authorities.

John Howards, comments were racist, basically he's a racist. There isn't much we can do about that. Infact I could probably cause a little problem myself. (A percentage of tax, is supposed to be paid to all religious institutions.) According to the census, the Islamic-Authority in australia was supposed to receive close to 100million dollars this year (according to the statistics), they received half of that.

I don't agree to knowing Australian History upon entry, that's abit excessive. Let's work on people already in Australia for that. The Years 8-9-10 Civics/Australian History syllabus needs to be thought up more properly (because it's extremely week). I think perhaps 'learning basic language' and 'basic rights' upon entry.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I'm just a little confused about one thing buddy. You automatically assume not speaking english will cause anti-Western violence? Quit being a racist Jew, who's trying to stir up this type of Violence within Australia. (Three Jew's, and all three spreading the same racist Crap.) I'm not saying the threat of terrorism doesn't exist, but which community do you think has the best ability to stop it? The Jewish community? I think people need to give others a reason to be nationalistic, and therefore work with the government. I know for a fact that if I suspected somebody was planning a terrorist attack I would report them to the proper authorities.

John Howards, comments were racist, basically he's a racist. There isn't much we can do about that. Infact I could probably cause a little problem myself. (A percentage of tax, is supposed to be paid to all religious institutions.) According to the census, the Islamic-Authority in australia was supposed to receive close to 100million dollars this year (according to the statistics), they received half of that.

I don't agree to knowing Australian History upon entry, that's abit excessive. Let's work on people already in Australia for that. The Years 8-9-10 Civics/Australian History syllabus needs to be thought up more properly (because it's extremely week). I think perhaps 'learning basic language' and 'basic rights' upon entry.

Quit being a racist Jew, who's trying to stir up this type of Violence within Australia. (Three Jew's, and all three spreading the same racist Crap.)

We are yet to find a jew who call aussie girl sluts, gang rape girls in leb style(apparently), burned churches, smash cars all those racism are a result of your fellow muslims, not jews in australia. STOP REDHERRING. It is not jewish fault that you were treated badly. It is your fault. We don't see jewish people handing out pamphlets saying arabs have no rights to exist. We don't see Jewish people attacking cars or burning australian Flag. We don't see jewish people going to terrorist camp You are the one who love victimizing yourself so you can whine about it. Clean up your act in the society and get over it.


Magistrate Paul Smith committed for trial 11 of the 13 men accused of forming the cell, and the committals for two others — Aimen Joud, 21, and Shane Kent, 29 — will resume in two weeks.The men, mostly the children of Lebanese migrants, each face terrorism-related charges, some carrying penalties of up to 25 years in jail HERE

Things like these are the reason why you are hated, yes they are lebanese, yes they are muslims, yes they want to kill australians, yes they want to destroy the very land they live in. Stop blaming other people, no one force australian muslims to train in terrorist camp and commit crimes, they freely choose to do so and they must face the consequences. The consequence includes hatred from ordinary AUSTRALIANS whom they wanted to KILL.

 

[JayB]

sam, noone besides yourself has mentioned anything about the jewish community and its connection to the fight against terror. infact, noone in the world outside of israel expects the jews to be doing anything against terrorism as a community.

the same as in ireland, in in britain, in somalia, in timor, in russia, and in america, the first steps towards erradicating terrorism must come from the communities in which it exists. unfortunately for a large number of muslims, the majority of terrorism in the world today is propogated by extreme sects of the religion, and has become a stereotype for the religion as a whole. the solution to the prblem comes not from either side branding each other as rascists, but through action on behalf of the communities in which the problem exists. if the people who harbour these views have a problem with australian culture, then why are they here? and why should we protect them?

 

[Generator]

STOP REDHERRING

Classic (in more ways than one).

Everyone - don't turn this into another thread about the Jews and the Arabs.

 

[HotShot]

sam, noone besides yourself has mentioned anything about the jewish community and its connection to the fight against terror. infact, noone in the world outside of israel expects the jews to be doing anything against terrorism as a community.

the same as in ireland, in in britain, in somalia, in timor, in russia, and in america, the first steps towards erradicating terrorism must come from the communities in which it exists. unfortunately for a large number of muslims, the majority of terrorism in the world today is propogated by extreme sects of the religion, and has become a stereotype for the religion as a whole. the solution to the prblem comes not from either side branding each other as rascists, but through action on behalf of the communities in which the problem exists. if the people who harbour these views have a problem with australian culture, then why are they here? and why should we protect them?

I have, I made it quite it clear too the connection. The connection exists especially americas involvement in terrorism. Its easy to say first steps must come from the community - but remember doesnt have all the power- the government must support them and help them and not go against them. Its the government's problems as they are ones changing the policies and laws - the community doesnt change anything.

Rascism exists, as i put in out in another thread - Australia is stand out - you wouldnt beleive how many people is australia is a rascist country - and i just stand there ashamed. When i go overseas to america, india,etc they bag us out the way we treat the aborgines, the way we treat immigrants. And now johnny thinks he is gud by forcing people to learn english - wat happen to democracy and freedom.

why should they learn english? if they can survive in this country ( and a lot of people do) then why do they need to learn it. IF you can understand what they are saying that urs problem, but if they cant understnad what ur saying thats their problem and they will fix that. Most people from overseas already have solid english background and if they dont they normally out of their free will learn it here. There is no need to force it.

just imagine if other countries did the same - japan forced you to learn japanese, or india forced u to learn hindi? fact is when you communicate with english or whatever language u already know - why are u forced to learn somethin else? or if reallly have problems u can out of your own free will learn the language.

 

[mednerd]

my fellow bos members, i just want to take a short while to explain a certain user's funny remarks

I just want to know why you would make racist statements like "Islam isn't assimilating" or what not when it's clearly not true.

this is not a racist statement, it's his right to say it, even a CERTAIN MEMBER says so lol

t's their right as an Australian, if you don't respect 'Freedom of Thought', or even 'Freedom of Movement', then I have nothing more to say to you.

also want to see what evidence you have of muslims (who some how manage to afford expensive sports cars for leisure), yet apparently they don't work and they come from poor families?

No one said they come from poor families

why are u using only very extreme people as examples

we also see hate crimes, racist statements (involving islam) and even murder and violence. (Man killed in Bondi by another Jewish man).

LOL...i mean no muslim murders occurs...e.g.several muslime terrorists kill thousands in 911!!!

If they wanted all people to be 'Christian', then they would be breaking U.N Human Rights. (which no country can do.)

LOL...i suppose this doesnt apply to middle eastern countries?

I also want you to prove people 'Drive around looking for fights', which is an obviously stupid lie. A racist generalisation, and definately an example of someone who has no understanding of what happens outside of Bondi.

this guy seems to think that ppl actually come out and say this when they get caught .,.hahaha

You say "Calling Australian Girls Slut's?" are you implying that they aren't Australian? Once again you're creating a barrier! Australia GIVES people the RIGHT to follow any religion they want.

NB: Last sentece has no relevance to the rest of the "paragraph"

Islam isn't going no where, 'fastest growing religion'.

No it's not

this is funny..it's like frontline ALL OVER AGAIN andit seems i answered some of sam's questions/ criticisms with his own comments oh well at least my muslim friends can put up better and more meaningful answers,

 

[HotShot]

Edited by Med nerd

this is not a racist statement, it's his right to say it, even a CERTAIN MEMBER says so lol -

its a statement that discriminates.

LOL...i mean no muslim murders occurs...e.g.several American muslime terrorists kill thousands in 911!!!

 

[mednerd]

my bad...it is a racist comment but it is his right to say it

 

[HotShot]

my bad...it is a racist comment but it is his right to say it

and then ur point becomes.... are u saying that sam04u has no rite to call him rascist? or whatever.

 

[mednerd]

no u seem to miss the whole point...sam is claiming that he shouldnt say such racist remarks...and then he claims that supportin hezzabbollah is a freedom of speech (and it is) ..etc...that's hypocrisy

 

[HotShot]

no u seem to miss the whole point...sam is claiming that he shouldnt say such racist remarks...and then he claims that supportin hezzabbollah is a freedom of speech (and it is) ..etc...that's hypocrisy

he never said to not say as far as i am concerned he just why mention it? but supporting hezbollah is freedom of speech. - it doesnt mean its gud or bad thing tho (in this case its bad).

u gettin confused - discrimination in all forms bad - but it has to be made cos we live in a world of choice and this results in rascism, sexism and all other isms. and i think lengy put it well - its all in our minds.. and as result we feel bad about certain things.

but support hezbollah is discrimination because ur not supporting somethin else - but it still represents freedom.

 

[sam04u]

Alright let me clear some things up real quickly;

Originally Posted by sam04u
I just want to know why you would make racist statements like "Islam isn't assimilating" or what not when it's clearly not true.


this is not a racist statement, it's his right to say it, even a CERTAIN MEMBER says so lol

John Howard 'Singled out Islam', when many Asian, Jewish, Greek, Italian, and others haven't learnt the language and prefer to stay in areas with people of the same nationality. By singling out 'one' group and making a remark which is probably less true. They form a racist argument attacking Islamic-Australians.

No one said they come from poor families

So, they're rich hard-working people, who can afford to spend time 'driving around looking for european teens to bash?', listen to how stupid that sounds? Obviously Aryan beauty may have a mental defficiency.

Originally Posted by sam4u
we also see hate crimes, racist statements (involving islam) and even murder and violence. (Man killed in Bondi by another Jewish man).

LOL...i mean no muslim murders occurs...e.g.several muslime terrorists kill thousands in 911!!!

My point exactly, all groups have in some way or another done an act which is shameful to bear the name of the group they belong to. It doesn't mean the group as a whole is to blame. That was the point I was trying to make, but you misinterpreted it.

Originally Posted by sam4u
Islam isn't going no where, 'fastest growing religion'.

No it's not

Fastest-growing religion

The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

Some scholars see an emerging Muslim renaissance as Islam takes root in many traditionally Christian communities.

Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend.

"In societies where you have minorities that are discriminated against, I think they may find an appeal in Islam," said Waleed Kazziha of American University in Cairo.

Yes, it is.

Originally Posted by sam4u
If they wanted all people to be 'Christian', then they would be breaking U.N Human Rights. (which no country can do.)

LOL...i suppose this doesnt apply to middle eastern countries?

That applies to all countries, Including Israel which discriminates against non-Jews, and Rwanda, and even some parts of Pakistan, Lebanon and India.

But, alot of international violation exists in the country which you're defending. (Which you may not want to admit too, most importantly freedom and what not).

This argument isn't about Israel and the Middle East, do you know who brang racism to this thread? It was JaredR I believe, trying to spread MORE HATE, when me and HotShot are trying to stop the hatred. I just hope you would quit taking what I say out of context, and using very weak statistics to try and make racist, bigoted statements about islam using a small minority (NOT IN THE COUNTRY) as an example.


Overall, muslim-Australians, have assimilated better then jewish-Australians. Infact I believe as 'Australians', we need to work on one thing. Giving everyong 'A Fair Go', which this idea of John Howard's could do. (If he really cared), forcing people to learn their rights (should be added) and english would make life in Australia better for them. (Basic English should be enough). Also, refugees should have 'less' constraints, but also need to know their rights and some basic English. (who remembers the refugee who's daughter died? This could have been prevented if she spoke English. )

I just wish Johny didn't single out us muslims all the time.

 

[banco55]

Overall, muslim-Australians, have assimilated better then jewish-Australians. Infact I believe as 'Australians', we need to work on one thing. Giving everyong 'A Fair Go', which this idea of John Howard's could do. (If he really cared), forcing people to learn their rights (should be added) and english would make life in Australia better for them. (Basic English should be enough). Also, refugees should have 'less' constraints, but also need to know their rights and some basic English. (who remembers the refugee who's daughter died? This could have been prevented if she spoke English. )

I just wish Johny didn't single out us muslims all the time.

You have to be delusional to think that muslims have assimilated better than jewish australians or chinese australians for that matter. Jews and Chinese people are referred to as "model minorities" for a reason.

 

[sam04u]

You have to be delusional to think that muslims have assimilated better than jewish australians or chinese australians for that matter. Jews and Chinese people are referred to as "model minorities" for a reason.

I can't agree that the Jewish and Chinese communities within Australia have assimilated any better then the Australian Muslim community. How do you measure assimilation? Both the Jewish and the Chinese communities have created little communities where the majority of people are either chinese or jewish. It's a natural reaction and I don't see how any group can be classified as a group which has assimilated better then any of the other groups. IF you look at the polar beliefs and differences of ideals and then judge the actual ammount of 'Assimilation' you will see that in comparison the Australian-Muslim community which mostly does speak english and follow Australian sub-culture. You will see that they have assimilated quite well.

Then again Australia is a diverse country and that's what makes Australia beutiful, that it is multi-cultural to some extent. I just visit my local food court and have alot too chose from. I can see what the chinese have contributed, through foods and other culture, and the cheap chinese discount stores . I also see the kebab shops and the 'salad bars', which sells greek salad and other juices. I then see the butchery, which is owned by the friendly Italian guy, (a nice man), and I also do see the banks (friendly Jewish interest rates).

Altogether we have a functional society built on the differences of people Lol, let's all work together.

Racism is a step backwards not a step forward