MedVision ad

HSC 2015 MX2 Marathon (archive) (4 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon





 
Last edited:

shervos

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
39
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

not sure whether i understand the problem, what does Sm(-1) look like? In fact, what does S_m (-n) look like? Is it (-1)^m+(-2)^m+....+(-n)^m?
 
Last edited:

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

not sure whether i understand the problem, what does Sm(-1) look like?
He meant show that the polynomials that the power series sum (taken as polynomials defined for any real n) to have -1 and 0 as roots.
 

shervos

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
39
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

He meant show that the polynomials that the power series sum (taken as polynomials defined for any real n) to have -1 and 0 as roots.
I could be misunderstanding, but from the definition of S_m (n) (in the first line of the question), does this mean that S_m (n) holds positive integer values only?
 

InteGrand

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
6,109
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

I could be misunderstanding, but from the definition of S_m (n) (in the first line of the question), does this mean that S_m (n) holds positive integer values only?
 
Last edited:

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

subbing in n=-1 gives 1+ sigmaS_k(-1)*{m+1)Ck=(-1+1)^m+1=0??

the LHS is 1 if S(-1)=0 for all k?
The first argument doesn't work, just because the sum of all of them is zero doesn't mean all of them are zero (for instance 1 + (-1) +2 + (-2) = 0 but they aren't all zero).
Try induction!

(Also yea the property "S_m(n) has roots n=0 and n=-1" is only true for m >= 1, I'll edit that in)
 

shervos

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
39
Gender
Male
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

The first argument doesn't work, just because the sum of all of them is zero doesn't mean all of them are zero (for instance 1 + (-1) +2 + (-2) = 0 but they aren't all zero).
Try induction!

(Also yea the property "S_m(n) has roots n=0 and n=-1" is only true for m >= 1, I'll edit that in)
? Not sure what you mean here? Since S_k (-1) =0 as you claimed for all integers k, doesn't this mean that sigmaS_k(-1)*{m+1)Ck equals 0? (Since all the terms are zero, their sum is zero....am i wrong here?)
 

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

? Not sure what you mean here? Since S_k (-1) =0 as you claimed for all integers k, doesn't this mean that sigmaS_k(-1)*{m+1)Ck equals 0? (Since all the terms are zero, their sum is zero....am i wrong here?)
The second part of my post was saying that it's not true that S_0(-1) = 0, so that's why I edited in the question to make it "prove for m>=1 that S_m(-1) = 0" (which is true).

So, when you sub in n = -1 into the expression in part (i), we get

Which is true as expected, since , meaning S_0(-1) = -1, and if it were true that the rest of S_k(-1) were zero, then the equation indeed holds true
 

glittergal96

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
418
Gender
Female
HSC
2014
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

Key is the triangle inequality.

For |z| <= 1, we have

|p(z)| >= 3- |z+z^4| >= 3-|z|-|z|^4 >= 1 > 0.

and

|z^4q(1/z)| = |z^4+z^3+4| >= 4-|z|^3 - |z|^4 >=2 > 0.

So p has no roots inside the closed unit disk and q has no roots outside the open unit disk (and so certainly has no roots outside the closed unit disk).
 

Drsoccerball

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
3,650
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2015
Re: HSC 2015 4U Marathon

Key is the triangle inequality.

For |z| <= 1, we have

|p(z)| >= 3- |z+z^4| >= 3-|z|-|z|^4 >= 1 > 0.

and

|z^4q(1/z)| = |z^4+z^3+4| >= 4-|z|^3 - |z|^4 >=2 > 0.

So p has no roots inside the closed unit disk and q has no roots outside the open unit disk (and so certainly has no roots outside the closed unit disk).
Do we have to use the triangle inequality? I thought by differentiating to find the min stationary point and subbing back into P(x) we obtain what we need?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)

Top