importance of dux, 2nd, 3rd in university applications + scholarships (1 Viewer)

[asduiashdi]

Hi, I'm in Year 10 at the moment and we just had our presentation ceremony and I missed out on top 3. This is for good reason, as I made a few too many mistakes in Semester 1. I was just wondering how important it was to come top 3 for university applications and scholarships. Thank you.

 

[jimmysmith560]

In year 12, your position in each of the subjects that you choose relative to your cohort and whether you are the Dux of your school are not factors that universities take into consideration when assessing applications to particular degrees. In the case of standard entry, universities prioritise your ATAR/selection rank. Generally speaking, whether you meet the required ATAR/selection rank for a particular degree(s) is the factor that will determine whether you will be made an offer to the degree(s) at a university that you may be interested in attending. This applies in the case of standard ATAR-based entry. Where your ranks across your subjects exert an influence (although indirectly) is in the case of early entry schemes that consider individual subject results in year 11 and/or year 12. Here, the higher your rank in a particular subject, the higher you are likely to be performing at a standard that will yield a high grade in year 11. Similarly, the higher your rank in a particular subject, the higher your Assessment Mark is likely to be in year 12, which constitutes a positive contribution to your HSC mark for that subject, therefore giving you a higher chance of receiving an offer on that basis.

Requirements to be fulfilled to be awarded a scholarship may be different across universities. Such requirements typically include:

• Academic excellence (for instance, a substantially high ATAR or favourable university results)
• Leadership and non-academic achievements
• Financial disadvantages

As you commence and progress through Stage 6, it would be a good idea to consider the university(ies) that you are interested in attending as well as specific scholarships that you believe you would be eligible for or have a good chance of receiving. Universities typically list such requirements for each individual scholarship, which you can access through their websites.

I hope this helps!

 

[011235]

Pretty sure that one of the UNSW scholarships is basically = Dux. Academic achievement award? The scholarship website seems to be a bit broken right now.

Regardless of this, no one cares about your year 10 results whatsoever, so you shouldn't stress about not coming third for y10 lol.

 

[asduiashdi]

In year 12, your position in each of the subjects that you choose relative to your cohort and whether you are the Dux of your school are not factors that universities take into consideration when assessing applications to particular degrees. In the case of standard entry, universities prioritise your ATAR/selection rank. Generally speaking, whether you meet the required ATAR/selection rank for a particular degree(s) is the factor that will determine whether you will be made an offer to the degree(s) at a university that you may be interested in attending. This applies in the case of standard ATAR-based entry. Where your ranks across your subjects exert an influence (although indirectly) is in the case of early entry schemes that consider individual subject results in year 11 and/or year 12. Here, the higher your rank in a particular subject, the higher you are likely to be performing at a standard that will yield a high grade in year 11. Similarly, the higher your rank in a particular subject, the higher your Assessment Mark is likely to be in year 12, which constitutes a positive contribution to your HSC mark for that subject, therefore giving you a higher chance of receiving an offer on that basis.

Requirements to be fulfilled to be awarded a scholarship may be different across universities. Such requirements typically include:

• Academic excellence (for instance, a substantially high ATAR or favourable university results)
• Leadership and non-academic achievements
• Financial disadvantages

As you commence and progress through Stage 6, it would be a good idea to consider the university(ies) that you are interested in attending as well as specific scholarships that you believe you would be eligible for or have a good chance of receiving. Universities typically list such requirements for each individual scholarship, which you can access through their websites.

I hope this helps!

thank you so much for your detailed reply! so it seems that universities place a far greater emphasis on ATAR and extra curriculars rather than school academic awards in my portfolio? that's a relief to hear, thank you.

 

[asduiashdi]

Pretty sure that one of the UNSW scholarships is basically = Dux. Academic achievement award? The scholarship website seems to be a bit broken right now.

Regardless of this, no one cares about your year 10 results whatsoever, so you shouldn't stress about not coming third for y10 lol.

oh would that UNSW scholarship be for Year 12 Dux? I think I may have heard of that.

Thank you for your reply! It's comforting to know that Year 10 results don't matter too much, I was just worried because I thought it would be a decent addition to my portfolio/resume.

 

[carrotsss]

Year 10 doesn’t matter, don’t worry

 

[asduiashdi]

Year 10 doesn’t matter, don’t worry

thank you for replying! I can see that now, the later years matter more and ultimately my atar. I'll just try to look forward to the next year and optimise my study habits.

 

[jazz519]

Pretty sure that one of the UNSW scholarships is basically = Dux. Academic achievement award? The scholarship website seems to be a bit broken right now.

Regardless of this, no one cares about your year 10 results whatsoever, so you shouldn't stress about not coming third for y10 lol.

This is not really a scholarship tbh in the normal sense of what one is. It's just a way for the uni to attract high level students its basically like a sign on bonus you would have at a company. From my own experience getting DUX at my school, AAA (academic achievement award) you get paid $4k to join the university. However, that's all it's not like a recurring payment each year that a normal scholarship is like so it's quite minor and probably not the best reason to join a particular university as $4k in the long scheme of things is not major.

To answer the original post as I had received a few scholarships at uni and can explain it from my own experience.

What you do in year 10 = 0, no impact at all. In year 10 I was a good student (above average like top 20 in most my subjects and then slightly above average in things like english like top 60/180), but no where near the level of getting a 99 atar or dux. This was probably cause I wasn't that committed to some of my subjects, like I enjoyed science and maths so I spent all my time on those and neglected other things like english as I didn't enjoy it. The main things from these lower years is just focus on your study habits and try do some extracurriculars. Obviously for this if you are on like a 40% you can't expect to go to 95% without some serious turn around but if you have the natural intelligence level and you are not achieving the top grades already in year 10 it's not a deal breaker. Once I got to Year 11 I started focusing more improved my ranks to mostly within top 10 or top 5 and then I built off that momentum you get from getting the reward for your effort and it allowed me to come 1st in all my subjects apart from one. It's just a matter of harnessing that natural ability by dedicating yourself, studying more than anyone else and knowing everything back to front i.e. don't just keep doing practice questions on things you are already good at but try improve your weak areas in a subject to be on par with your strongest areas, as improving the weak areas will give you the greatest increase in the overall mark. This can only come from someone who is super committed and willing to go beyond what the norm is.

Even if you apply for an academic based scholarship they still ask you some questions on things like when you showed leadership, some major projects you did, any extracurriculars or volunteering. It doesn't have to be you are doing 10 different things but just have a solid example to write about in detail is what you need. So for instance I worked on a science project and got to present that in front of the whole school. So I wrote a lot about that of what it took to do it and the skills shown in it that they would look for like time management, assigning roles to people and being a leader in a group, presentation skills etc.

From year 11 onwards there will be some importance in terms of the marks. However, not as much as Year 12. The scholarships assessment is basically done mostly of what happens in Year 12 if it's an academic based one. But like I said above you can't just neglect these other features like the leadership, extracurriculars and volunteering as in the UNSW application for example, even though its an academic based one you still need to write something for these.

The level to which marks vs other areas importance in getting the scholarship depends on what type it is. There are different scholarships offered like academic, all-round (someone who got good marks but maybe not the 99 atar but still has the great skills in other areas), sports, co-op (work in the industry while doing your degree).

 

[asduiashdi]

This is not really a scholarship tbh in the normal sense of what one is. It's just a way for the uni to attract high level students its basically like a sign on bonus you would have at a company. From my own experience getting DUX at my school, AAA (academic achievement award) you get paid $4k to join the university. However, that's all it's not like a recurring payment each year that a normal scholarship is like so it's quite minor and probably not the best reason to join a particular university as $4k in the long scheme of things is not major.

To answer the original post as I had received a few scholarships at uni and can explain it from my own experience.

What you do in year 10 = 0, no impact at all. In year 10 I was a good student (above average like top 20 in most my subjects and then slightly above average in things like english like top 60/180), but no where near the level of getting a 99 atar or dux. This was probably cause I wasn't that committed to some of my subjects, like I enjoyed science and maths so I spent all my time on those and neglected other things like english as I didn't enjoy it. The main things from these lower years is just focus on your study habits and try do some extracurriculars. Obviously for this if you are on like a 40% you can't expect to go to 95% without some serious turn around but if you have the natural intelligence level and you are not achieving the top grades already in year 10 it's not a deal breaker. Once I got to Year 11 I started focusing more improved my ranks to mostly within top 10 or top 5 and then I built off that momentum you get from getting the reward for your effort and it allowed me to come 1st in all my subjects apart from one. It's just a matter of harnessing that natural ability by dedicating yourself, studying more than anyone else and knowing everything back to front i.e. don't just keep doing practice questions on things you are already good at by try improve your weak areas in a subject to be on par with your strongest areas, as improving the weak areas will give you the greatest increase in the overall mark. This can only come from someone who is super committed and willing to go beyond what the norm is.

Even if you apply for an academic based scholarship they still ask you some questions on things like when you showed leadership, some major projects you did, any extracurriculars or volunteering. It doesn't have to be you are doing 10 different things but just have a solid example to write about in detail is what you need. So for instance I worked on a science project and got to present that in front of the whole school. So I wrote a lot about that of what it took to do it and the skills shown in it that they would look for like time management, assigning roles to people and being a leader in a group, presentation skills etc.

From year 11 onwards there will be some importance in terms of the marks. However, not as much as Year 12. The scholarships assessment is basically done mostly of what happens in Year 12 if it's an academic based one. But like I said above you can't just neglect these other features like the leadership, extracurriculars and volunteering as in the UNSW application for example, even though its an academic based one you still need to write something for these.

The level to which marks vs other areas importance in getting the scholarship depends on what type it is. There are different scholarships offered like academic, all-round (someone who got good marks but maybe not the 99 atar but still has the great skills in other areas), sports, co-op (work in the industry while doing your degree).

Wow, thank you so much for your answer! There's so much useful information! I will definitely try my best to follow your advice. I feel like I have been somewhat cruising along for the past few years and only trying to study a few weeks before the exam. I think I have experienced the 'natural ability' and dedication that you speak of, in maths this year because I started to really enjoy the topics and concepts. Next year, I'll only be doing subjects that I am passionate about so hopefully I will be able to harness that and be more dedicated.

My brother recommended that I look into university scholarships early so that I might start planning some extracurriculars (took a 6 month break after piano exam) to do so I'll definitely look into some good activities that I enjoy. My brother thinks that the co-op scholarship would be beneficial because of the networking opportunities. Thank you, I now feel like I have a goal to work towards and will try my best to achieve it.

 

[jazz519]

Wow, thank you so much for your answer! There's so much useful information! I will definitely try my best to follow your advice. I feel like I have been somewhat cruising along for the past few years and only trying to study a few weeks before the exam. I think I have experienced the 'natural ability' and dedication that you speak of, in maths this year because I started to really enjoy the topics and concepts. Next year, I'll only be doing subjects that I am passionate about so hopefully I will be able to harness that and be more dedicated.

My brother recommended that I look into university scholarships early so that I might start planning some extracurriculars (took a 6 month break after piano exam) to do so I'll definitely look into some good activities that I enjoy. My brother thinks that the co-op scholarship would be beneficial because of the networking opportunities. Thank you, I now feel like I have a goal to work towards and will try my best to achieve it.

No worries best of luck!

 

[naila]

This is not really a scholarship tbh in the normal sense of what one is. It's just a way for the uni to attract high level students its basically like a sign on bonus you would have at a company. From my own experience getting DUX at my school, AAA (academic achievement award) you get paid $4k to join the university. However, that's all it's not like a recurring payment each year that a normal scholarship is like so it's quite minor and probably not the best reason to join a particular university as $4k in the long scheme of things is not major.

To answer the original post as I had received a few scholarships at uni and can explain it from my own experience.

What you do in year 10 = 0, no impact at all. In year 10 I was a good student (above average like top 20 in most my subjects and then slightly above average in things like english like top 60/180), but no where near the level of getting a 99 atar or dux. This was probably cause I wasn't that committed to some of my subjects, like I enjoyed science and maths so I spent all my time on those and neglected other things like english as I didn't enjoy it. The main things from these lower years is just focus on your study habits and try do some extracurriculars. Obviously for this if you are on like a 40% you can't expect to go to 95% without some serious turn around but if you have the natural intelligence level and you are not achieving the top grades already in year 10 it's not a deal breaker. Once I got to Year 11 I started focusing more improved my ranks to mostly within top 10 or top 5 and then I built off that momentum you get from getting the reward for your effort and it allowed me to come 1st in all my subjects apart from one. It's just a matter of harnessing that natural ability by dedicating yourself, studying more than anyone else and knowing everything back to front i.e. don't just keep doing practice questions on things you are already good at but try improve your weak areas in a subject to be on par with your strongest areas, as improving the weak areas will give you the greatest increase in the overall mark. This can only come from someone who is super committed and willing to go beyond what the norm is.

Even if you apply for an academic based scholarship they still ask you some questions on things like when you showed leadership, some major projects you did, any extracurriculars or volunteering. It doesn't have to be you are doing 10 different things but just have a solid example to write about in detail is what you need. So for instance I worked on a science project and got to present that in front of the whole school. So I wrote a lot about that of what it took to do it and the skills shown in it that they would look for like time management, assigning roles to people and being a leader in a group, presentation skills etc.

From year 11 onwards there will be some importance in terms of the marks. However, not as much as Year 12. The scholarships assessment is basically done mostly of what happens in Year 12 if it's an academic based one. But like I said above you can't just neglect these other features like the leadership, extracurriculars and volunteering as in the UNSW application for example, even though its an academic based one you still need to write something for these.

The level to which marks vs other areas importance in getting the scholarship depends on what type it is. There are different scholarships offered like academic, all-round (someone who got good marks but maybe not the 99 atar but still has the great skills in other areas), sports, co-op (work in the industry while doing your degree).

hi, you mentioned that you came first in all of your subjects except one. congratulations on this massive achievement! can I ask how you did this/if you have any tips?

 

[jazz519]

hi, you mentioned that you came first in all of your subjects except one. congratulations on this massive achievement! can I ask how you did this/if you have any tips?

I got there through a combination of a few factors - natural intelligence, hard work, studying ahead, doing lots of practice and always looking for ways to improve even if I got high marks in an assignment before.

Firstly, a high level of natural intelligence as I had always performed quite well at school and after at uni won awards and am now doing a PhD. I emphasise this not to show-off but to highlight that this was a very important factor in being able to achieve these ranks as you are able to learn faster and understand the content more easily. This you can't really change through just working harder but doesn't mean the other factors I will talk about below can't help you improve and get higher marks than the past which you can actually control.

Secondly, I worked harder than everyone else which enabled me to maximise my potential. I studied during all the holiday periods (not from morning to night non-stop but a few hours each day 3-6 hours and so all that extra studying builds up and becomes something meaningful after a 2-3 week school holiday break and a massive advantage over the 2 month christmas break), while other students took time off and stopped studying completely potentially forgetting content they learnt recently. This way I got ahead already made my notes and completed all the content for the next topic and addressed any weaknesses I had in my previous term content that the assignment was on. Through this way also I didn't burnout because it wasn't like I was working non-stop. It was more a consistent amount of time and effort that adds up over time.

This meant I had so much time in the year to just do practice by doing exam paper questions on websites like THSConline while others were learning the content. More time in practice means you understand the content better and because I'd already done so many exam paper like questions 95% of the time the questions that come up in the exam you have already seen something similar before and so I could draw on my experience in completing a similar question already. For the remaining 5% of questions that are new because you have a strong foundation through past papers you understand the content very well and so I was able to make connections between syllabus areas and get the answer out.

This required self-direction because no one will tell you to do this extra work (if anything people often say just relax and don't get burnt out). Having this self-direction is really important because this kept me motivated and reduced the feelings of being burnt out, tired or distracted because I had a goal that kept me motivated and willing to go the extra mile to make sure I knew every concept as well as I could.

Lastly, after getting a good result I would never get complacent in thinking that meant I knew everything and couldn't improve. I was always looking for ways to improve my answers or essays even if I got a high mark. For example, in my english trials I scored 96/105 which was about 10 marks in front of second place and only about 3-4 people got about 80. Still after those exams I edited my essays further and tried to improve them. The same is the case for in chemistry and physics I would actively look for areas I could improve in even if I was getting high marks. This meant by the time HSC came around I basically was prepared for anything they could ask me.

My own experience is just one way to achieve these kind of marks and was the way I found the most effective but all students can benefit from working ahead and doing past papers early to elevate their existing marks even if their goals are not to come 1st

 

[naila]

I got there through a combination of a few factors - natural intelligence, hard work, studying ahead, doing lots of practice and always looking for ways to improve even if I got high marks in an assignment before.

Firstly, a high level of natural intelligence as I had always performed quite well at school and after at uni won awards and am now doing a PhD. I emphasise this not to show-off but to highlight that this was a very important factor in being able to achieve these ranks as you are able to learn faster and understand the content more easily. This you can't really change through just working harder but doesn't mean the other factors I will talk about below can't help you improve and get higher marks than the past which you can actually control.

Secondly, I worked harder than everyone else which enabled me to maximise my potential. I studied during all the holiday periods (not from morning to night non-stop but a few hours each day 3-6 hours and so all that extra studying builds up and becomes something meaningful after a 2-3 week school holiday break and a massive advantage over the 2 month christmas break), while other students took time off and stopped studying completely potentially forgetting content they learnt recently. This way I got ahead already made my notes and completed all the content for the next topic and addressed any weaknesses I had in my previous term content that the assignment was on. Through this way also I didn't burnout because it wasn't like I was working non-stop. It was more a consistent amount of time and effort that adds up over time.

This meant I had so much time in the year to just do practice by doing exam paper questions on websites like THSConline while others were learning the content. More time in practice means you understand the content better and because I'd already done so many exam paper like questions 95% of the time the questions that come up in the exam you have already seen something similar before and so I could draw on my experience in completing a similar question already. For the remaining 5% of questions that are new because you have a strong foundation through past papers you understand the content very well and so I was able to make connections between syllabus areas and get the answer out.

This required self-direction because no one will tell you to do this extra work (if anything people often say just relax and don't get burnt out). Having this self-direction is really important because this kept me motivated and reduced the feelings of being burnt out, tired or distracted because I had a goal that kept me motivated and willing to go the extra mile to make sure I knew every concept as well as I could.

Lastly, after getting a good result I would never get complacent in thinking that meant I knew everything and couldn't improve. I was always looking for ways to improve my answers or essays even if I got a high mark. For example, in my english trials I scored 96/105 which was about 10 marks in front of second place and only about 3-4 people got about 80. Still after those exams I edited my essays further and tried to improve them. The same is the case for in chemistry and physics I would actively look for areas I could improve in even if I was getting high marks. This meant by the time HSC came around I basically was prepared for anything they could ask me.

My own experience is just one way to achieve these kind of marks and was the way I found the most effective but all students can benefit from working ahead and doing past papers early to elevate their existing marks even if their goals are not to come 1st

thanks so much!

 

[Run hard@thehsc]

tbf DUX matters as you can get a AAA scholarship from UNSW, but 2nd and 3rd not so much I reckon, unless they are high atars like 98 or 99 in which case you can get an outright business scholarship from Macquarie University.