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Important: Anti-vsu Rally (2 Viewers)

aim54x

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all opinons r valid. i'm not tellin u to stop critque on my opinions, but merely, stop addressing me purely. this leads to the lessening of value to this discussion.

if offence is taken to ones expression ple feel free to express ur offence, that goes for grk_styl. if that guy pissed u off, complain.
 

Xayma

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The only decent thing about USU that I can see is that the SRC remains completly student run, however, I think it should not run political campaigns under the same organisations, it does not run student issues, it runs issues which it claims are student issues by hiding that it is elected by a minority of students and claim it is representative.
 

Slidey

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So... when exactly will the fees be voluntary? I won't have to pay them in 2006, will I?
 

Not-That-Bright

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aim54x said:
all opinons r valid. i'm not tellin u to stop critque on my opinions, but merely, stop addressing me purely. this leads to the lessening of value to this discussion.

if offence is taken to ones expression ple feel free to express ur offence, that goes for grk_styl. if that guy pissed u off, complain.
Well usually when you're having a discussion about an issue, you address the person you're talking to, do you not? :rolleyes:
 

Xayma

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It starts as of next year. So you won't have to pay them Slide Rule.
 

withoutaface

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Manning sucks, I went there today (first time since o week) and they don't even have VB:S I mean wtf is up with that?
 

SmokedSalmon

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I'm not worried that the government is going to implement VSU from now on. Possibly next year right? Societies probably won't disappear... most likely we'll end up paying more to join a particular society and the functions it holds will be more expensive... not free or cheap. Well I hope this is the case, I like the societies at uni! I don't care about wentworth or manning... I used to always go to them in first year and hang out but I'm over it now. With VSU, you can spend your $500 cash on what you want at uni... not it being wasted on 'anti-vsu' tshirts.
 

christ_ine

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Nice to know this 'voluntary' comes into play when I'm no longer at university. Four years and they decide to do it NOW?!

*waves fist*
 

gordo

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i got over manning so quickly

thursday 1pm theatre sports is all thats appealing there anymore
 

Plebeian

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To clarify the details that aim54x originally requested:

- The National Day of Action is on April 28th. The Union will be closing all outlets (ie. Manning, Holme and Wentworth) from around 9am to 2pm to show people what it will be like under VSU without Union food. At 12pm, two events will start:
- The first is a festival on the Front Lawns. This will feature a free BBQ / free food and entertainment from Frenzal Rhomb, Tim Freedman, Wil Anderson and The Chaser. (If you don't like those particular acts, don't complain. That is entirely not the point.)
- Secondly, there will be a march down Cleveland St, up Regent St and then back along Broadway, back to USyd. Along the way, the marchers from USyd will meet with people from UTS and UNSW who will come back to the festival with us.
- After the festival concludes at around 2pm, the focus will shift to Manning where the Union will be providing various discounted food and drink and further entertainment. - The University Senate is in support of the action. They have recommended that faculty staff show "suitable leniency" to students who aren't at classes. Considering that the National Tertiary Education Union (ie. the union which most lecturers belong to) is also a major supporter of the NDA, it is possible that lectures will be completely cancelled in some faculties. However, even in those ones which are still run, you won't be penalised for going to the festival / rally instead.

To address some of the points that have been raised:

1) "If the Union & SRC go bankrupt under VSU, it's clearly not providing enough value to students" and "The SRC are wasting my money on running left-wing campaigns".

This is not the case. Contribution levels will fall not because people don't enjoy the services that they get, but because they will try to get them without paying for them. In the absence of a system of complete discrimination between members and non-members, people who didn't pay will think that they can go into Manning and watch the same free lunchtime bands as people who did pay - so why would anyone fork out at the start of the year?

Additionally, many of the services are things which aren't directly sustainable, because while they are essential, they are not glamorous and people don't recognise the value of them. For example, the SRC runs things such as welfare support, subsidised childcare, assistance with academic appeals, and - God forbid - political campaigns. Now, yes, some of the campaigns run by people are too extreme. But the SRC is an open body, where anyone who wants to can run a campaign on a particular issue.

In any case, these campaigns have achieved substantial gains for student rights in the past. You might decide you want to save some cash by not joining up to clubs, but if you support the Government's model of VSU in order to do this, you're also throwing away your only voice for student rights ... the people who fought (and successfully reduced) HECS increases, and who are conducting a campaign against ancillary course fees (which has been somewhat sidelined by VSU). When Xayma says the SRC doesn't conduct campaigns on student issues, he's conveniently overlooking these things, plus the glaringly obvious example of the VSU campaign.

2) "The SRC is not representative of student interests, because not everyone votes."

Here is a quote from ABC News (America) that might interest you:
WASHINGTON Jan 15, 2005 — Deep divisions over the war in Iraq and intense voter registration drives pushed the 2004 presidential election turnout to 60.7 percent, the highest level since 1968, the Center for the Study of the American Electorate said Friday.
(Link

I don't remember anyone calling the US un-democratic because not everyone votes. In any case, you can scarcely blame the SRC for the fact that not everyone votes. That's not their fault. Perhaps if more people were interested in issues that affect them and everyone else on campus, the SRC would be an even more vibrant political body. But don't persecute it for the apathy of the general student body on these matters.

3) "VSU gives me the choice to join and pay for just the clubs that I want to."

Yeah, well that's all well and good if those clubs manage to stay afloat. The fact is, most won't, and the ones that do will only manage to do so by charging a lot more for membership. As in, upwards of $30-40 (based on the amount of Union funding they'll lose under VSU), which of course no-one will pay because no-one can see themselves getting value for that much money upfront. So all the clubs will die, and people won't have the choice to join anything.

4) "Private enterprise would be cheaper for us all."

Well, there are a few private enterprises on campus already. BB's, Donut King, and Azzuri's are all privately-owned (you'll note they don't take the orange member card). It's not a coincidence that they're all more expensive. Generally, they're actually more expensive than the non-member price at Union outlets, so this whole argument that the Union doesn't know what it's doing and is full of inefficiency, whereas private enterprise has an obvious commitment to low prices, is flawed. Why would a business not answerable to the student body want to cut prices for no reason? Some people say 'competition', but there already is competition, both with each other and with the Union outlets. Also, consider that during uni holidays for 3 months of the year, these private enterprises would get no business. Most companies wouldn't be willing to take that sort of hit when they could just locate themselves nearby to the campus and get business all year round from both the student body and general population.

---

Everyone just needs to think about whether saving this amount of money at the start of the year is worth:
- turning the uni from a vibrant, enjoyable place to be into a bland place with no extracurricular clubs, entertainment, or sport (SU Sport will die too, don't forget that).
- losing access to essential services that YOU MIGHT NEED one day, eg. welfare, academic appeals, legal and health services.
- depriving the student community of its ability to organise, be informed and have a voice on important issues which affect them (eg. Youth Allowance, which the student movement fought to retain as a payment rather than a loan, which the Government wanted to turn it into; also HECS increases, ancillary course costs and VSU). This will affect your rights in the future, and could make you liable to be paying more in terms of ancillary fees, HECS and other course costs if the Government is able to raise them without opposition.
- raising prices in all the shops in campus, or losing them altogether.

Yes, there are some flaws with the current system, but the Government's model of complete VSU is NOT THE SOLUTION. It's too harsh in its attacks on both campus life and the rights of students. It's simply not worth it.
 

stazi

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aim54x said:
its better than nothin, i was told that the deans supported it.

if the gov gets rid of student unions, which vsu will most likely do, they may move on workers unions next. bastards
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH!!!!! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! Yes, they're going to place bans on people signing up with working unions, face massive violent protests etc. All this with union memberships at a low 26 (from memory) percent and decreasing.
Workers unions: Oh, and you do realise that unions aren't part of the state. Also that union membership is not required by any workers.
 

stazi

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aim54x said:
as in making them illegal (massive exageration to bring support for this rally), sounds a little extreme but those nutcases want to silence us, n it won't take much for the bastards to try this.

this rally is supported by the NSU if u have looked at the posters.
Mate seriously, please shut up. Just be quiet. I am against VSU but everything u say makes me want it to be implemented. Just to piss ignorant people like you off.
 

stazi

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aim54x said:
and we'll be left with a void that the commercialists will rush in and occupy, making a killiin form us students.

did u know that the SRC and Union ensure that the uni's don't overcharge us for reader packs and lecture notes??

i'm sure u have joined some clubs and societies??? without the union these would not exist as no funding could be allocated. i'll miss the clubs and socs.

a union cannot exist if it is stripped of members. u can't run a union for the greater benefit of the students if only a small group of students support it. the union would downsize til it's power to represent the students is so small that it is no longer a force.
The SRC and Union don't make sure the uni doesn't overcharge us. The SRC is trying to make reading kits free. Good cause which I support. But no one is making sure that the 'evil usyd admin' are trying to profit from us. Because they are not.

Miss the clubs and socs? The union primarily supports the establishment fees of a club/soc. Further down the track the club runs off its members joining fees plus sponsorships. I know of many socs that earn 60% plus from sponsorships.
 

stazi

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grk_styl said:
I'm anti-VSU.

However...the guy at my Psyc lecture on Tuesday morning annoyed the crap out of me with his t-shit: "FUCK OFF LIBERAL SCUM" (or something along those lines)

like fine...u have ur beliefs and I have mine. but how dare u parade around with a radical t-shirt like that telling liberal supporters (and myself) to fuck off. Who are u attacking? lib supports or the actual liberal party? Coz i've done nothing wrong so I don't think u have any right to tell me to fuck off.

ok, so i know that guy obviously doesn't frequent these boards. But i had to get it out.

/end rant.
I bought that Tshirt. I don't see the problem. It's just a word. You can hear it getting used in public everywhere. You probably say Fuck all the time. Hell, you probably discrimante against people.
If you want to get offended by it, fair enough, but you have a weak gut.
I personally think someone as young as you supporting the libs is wrong. I also think the fact that the guy who was in the lib society at o-week sleeps with a poster of john howard over the bed. I also think its wrong that when I pretended I too was a lib supporter and said "Haha, yeah. I love the fact we have a liberal society here. I'm like you guys. I too don't care about people as long as we get more and more money" and the guy I was talking with said "i absolutely agree with you"
 

stazi

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aim54x said:
all opinons r valid.
You guys do all realise that with VSU the Union will become bankrupt? So will the SRC..NSU and all those organisations. Manning will be shut down. They will open a maccas at Wentworth to make profit. Also, if you have a legal problem with marks or whatever, such as wishing to get a consolidated pass, you won't be able to anymore. In fact, I think all lecturers will start giving out Passes and Fails non-stop. Because the SRC isn't there to make sure that everything runs smoothly. Also to borrow in the library, it will be a couple of bucks per hire.
You'd also need to pay special membership fees that allow you to study there.
STOP VSU!!!
 

withoutaface

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1Time4thePpl said:
You guys do all realise that with VSU the Union will become bankrupt? So will the SRC..NSU and all those organisations. Manning will be shut down. They will open a maccas at Wentworth to make profit. Also, if you have a legal problem with marks or whatever, such as wishing to get a consolidated pass, you won't be able to anymore. In fact, I think all lecturers will start giving out Passes and Fails non-stop. Because the SRC isn't there to make sure that everything runs smoothly. Also to borrow in the library, it will be a couple of bucks per hire.
You'd also need to pay special membership fees that allow you to study there.
STOP VSU!!!
There are no conceded passes in the faculties I'm enrolled in anyway, the food in Wentworth is generally shit, I've bought 1 drink from Manning since uni started, and the library is not controlled by the union.
 

stazi

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withoutaface said:
There are no conceded passes in the faculties I'm enrolled in anyway, the food in Wentworth is generally shit, I've bought 1 drink from Manning since uni started, and the library is not controlled by the union.
You're silly. Silly like a vagina. Read what I quoted. Read my previous posts. Now you'll feel really silly. Silly like a fish.
 

Phanatical

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The membership fees to the library come from what subjects you are studying, and how much of the content is based in the library. It could Possibly be considered a form of VSU to be a forced member of the library, but it's pretty much user pays. And how the hell do you plan to finish your degree without using the library anyways?
 

Xayma

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1Time4thePpl said:
You're silly. Silly like a vagina. Read what I quoted. Read my previous posts. Now you'll feel really silly. Silly like a fish.
Conceded passes shouldn't exist. Would you for one want to be in an aircraft where the engineer in charge of maintenance got conceeded passes, because they spent their time drinking instead of studying?

Yay for April the 28th more of my money going towards "discounts" which I won't use.
 

stazi

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Xayma said:
Conceded passes shouldn't exist. Would you for one want to be in an aircraft where the engineer in charge of maintenance got conceeded passes, because they spent their time drinking instead of studying?

Yay for April the 28th more of my money going towards "discounts" which I won't use.
DAMN IT!!! Remind me never to use sarcasm again! That bloke said everyone's opinion is valid. So I wrote something that makes no sense. Something so loaded with crap that would not validate my opinion at all to prove him wrong.
 

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