In a dilemma - please help (1 Viewer)

[gk786]

My daughter is currently in year 6 in local public school. She has just been accepted into a private high school ranked in top 100 after passing their enrolment exam. This school is around $8000 per year and around 25 mins drive from my house.

I also have a local girls high school (5 mins from my house) which is ranked between 150-170 in most HSC years.

My daughter is an above average student and so far, I wouldn’t say she is extra ordinary intelligent or anything. But I haven’t pushed her at all thus far and she has had no tutoring etc so far either.

I am in a dilemma as to what to do. Should I put her in private school? Does she have a better chance of doing better academically in a private top 100 school or does it make no difference if she goes to the local high school (ranked 150-170)?

If I miss this chance, she may not get in the private school again as their spots are hard to come-by.

I will have the same dilemma next year again – my son will attempt to get into the same private school (ranked within top 100) – or the local boys high school which is ranked in top 250 in NSW. Which option should I take?? Does it matter?

I obviously want to give my kids the best chance of doing well academically.

I WOULD TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE.

 

[hamsterjames]

It really doesn't matter. The school ranking is not necessarily an indication of the teaching quality, but merely demonstrates the quality of the cohort. If you think your children would fit in better at the higher ranking private school, then I'd send them there. However, they can still excel in lower ranking schools. I'd personally choose the local school, as it costs less and travel time is much less.

 

[Blue Suede]

You're saying that you want your children to do well academically, but it might be worth considering the environment of a private school. They have much better facilities than public schools and sports programs that far exceed those offered by public schools.

To be honest, the type of student that comes out of a private school is often very different to the type that comes out of a public school and it's your choice whether that's the type of environment you want your children's formative years to be spent in or not.

 

[RishBonjour]

School rankings after around 20/30 + tend to fluctuate a lot. I think (and most others on this forum) it comes down to the student, but for many people to actually work hard/be motivated, they need to be placed in a competitive environment, which a top ranked school entails.
I went to a public school ranked 120s in 2011 (but was like 250+ in 2010) and only took my HSC seriously when year 12 actually started. On the other hand, many people in top schools accelerate subjects or get into tutoring from as early as year 7 (which IMO is not as effective unless the student needs serious help with studies). Why? probably because most other kids in their cohort do it and they all want GREAT ATARs. Also, private/public doesn't really matter.

 

[Bobbo1]

It really doesn't matter. The school ranking is not necessarily an indication of the teaching quality, but merely demonstrates the quality of the cohort. If you think your children would fit in better at the higher ranking private school, then I'd send them there. However, they can still excel in lower ranking schools. I'd personally choose the local school, as it costs less and travel time is much less.

This is true but in terms of results and the HSC, it all comes down to the quality of the cohort and the level of teaching quality isn't too significant. E.g. the quality of teaching between James Ruse and a comprehensive high school wouldn't be too different but their cohorts makes all the difference.

To the OP: consider what type of career path your daughter wishes to take, if it's something with a high entry requirements then it may be worth considering sending her to the private school. If not, say she wants to go to TAFE or pursue something non-tertiary related then the local public school will suffice as long as you provide enough motivation and guidance for her.

 

[Sy123]

You're saying that you want your children to do well academically, but it might be worth considering the environment of a private school. They have much better facilities than public schools and sports programs that far exceed those offered by public schools.

To be honest, the type of student that comes out of a private school is often very different to the type that comes out of a public school and it's your choice whether that's the type of environment you want your children's formative years to be spent in or not.

+1

As a person who has experienced both the public and private high school system, I can definitely say that they are a lot different. A private school has much more discipline in terms of rules, it is more competitive, naturally it will have better facilities than a local comprehensive simply due to economics.

If you aren't in a terrible financial condition I think the Private school would be the way to go.

 

[gk786]

OP here. Thanks very much for your response guys.

My aim is to get my children into a good course at University. When I did my HSC 20 years ago, I had just migrated to Australia and went to an ordinary girls public school and got 94 in HSC without any tutoring. My brother did HSC 5 years after me at a school ranked 300-400 and he received 99.1 without any tutoring (we came from a background where study was everything). We went to an ordinary public school and ended up doing quite well.

However, I am told that things have changed now. They are much more competitive. Nearly every 2nd child is doing tutoring. The game is not fair any more.

Thats the only reason I am considering private. To give my kids an academic advantage. I tried tuoring for one term at Alpha Omega and didn't like it - too much homework and not much was taught in class.

 

[hsclover]

Hi gk786, I've PM'd you with my input/ experiences

 

[phy6au]

Hey why not tell her what each school would entail (like the pros and cons) and let her have a say? She'll do much better if she enjoys her time at school.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

To be honest, the type of student that comes out of a private school is often very different to the type that comes out of a public school and it's your choice whether that's the type of environment you want your children's formative years to be spent in or not.

How so?

This is true but in terms of results and the HSC, it all comes down to the quality of the cohort and the level of teaching quality isn't too significant. E.g. the quality of teaching between James Ruse and a comprehensive high school wouldn't be too different but their cohorts makes all the difference.

To the OP: consider what type of career path your daughter wishes to take, if it's something with a high entry requirements then it may be worth considering sending her to the private school. If not, say she wants to go to TAFE or pursue something non-tertiary related then the local public school will suffice as long as you provide enough motivation and guidance for her.

I'm thinking at James Ruse there would be good teachers (it'd be a pretty high priority school to go to). I think JRuse students would hold their teachers to massively high standards. Personally though, results aren't really indicative of how good the teachers are. Me for instance, in one of my weaker subs, I had a teacher in Yr 12 that not only came early one day a week for us to extra practice and stayed through break time to help people more times than I care to count. Now in one of my better classes, my results had nothing to do with our class as we seldom did anything productive in them. There were many fantastic teachers at my rural comprehensive school, that cared alot and went the extra effort to organise extra curricular things.

So why are the teachers at private better inherently, the better pay or what? (Note:I know there are good teachers at private schools but I don't think they cna be mutually exclusive to one whole educational facility). Since when has a public school only being a route for TAFE or non tertiary-that sounds pretty elitist esp. when you say it may suffice for that with enough motivation and guidance You know I find the people that tend to do best at uni are the people who didn't need mollycoddling by their parents to succeed-motivation and initiative should be intrinsic.

OP here. Thanks very much for your response guys.

My aim is to get my children into a good course at University. When I did my HSC 20 years ago, I had just migrated to Australia and went to an ordinary girls public school and got 94 in HSC without any tutoring. My brother did HSC 5 years after me at a school ranked 300-400 and he received 99.1 without any tutoring (we came from a background where study was everything). We went to an ordinary public school and ended up doing quite well.

However, I am told that things have changed now. They are much more competitive. Nearly every 2nd child is doing tutoring. The game is not fair any more.

Thats the only reason I am considering private. To give my kids an academic advantage. I tried tuoring for one term at Alpha Omega and didn't like it - too much homework and not much was taught in class.

I never had any tutoring in my schooling life. Through the cohorts at my school, I can cite many examples of where no tuition led to great results, many better than mine. The tutoring culture in the city is intense. If you feel your child will benefit from the city, you should consider this on top of the frees and extra money to drive to this school, as well if the money will impinge on any other extracurricular activities/exchanges etc. your child will want to do.

I don't consider a private school an inherent academic advantage-it really depends on the schools and also we musn't forget the greatest determinant of results themselves is your child's aptitude and work ethic. I'd say selective schools give academic advantage, provided your child has the personality to not find it to pressure cooking/demoralizing.

So the thread I'd look around both schools and pros/cons. Even though the public school is ranked lower, look at it's capacity to turn out at the top end, teachers, extra curriculars etc. You must remember public schools take a more diverse (more representative of the real world) intake. Both being in the top 200, I imagine they tend to have quite high calibre students each year. Also, something really important is to consider what your daughter wants. My parents did strongly consider sending me to private school (they figured I could get a scholarship)-and I flat out refused. I chose my school and I wouldn't change that for the world. Why? Well the people I met and the experiences I had with school. If I went to private school, I doubt that I would have A: The money to have gone overseas as much as I have (twice with the school group which was great fun and the third time to represent Aus at a science event) B: The money to do extracurriculars such as ballet up to Adv 2 level just to cite two things. That said, the private school in your area is much more reasonably priced(does it have the step ladder fees where it becomes progressively more expensive?). The private school(the one I was considered been sent to) in my areas fees were in the $20000-$30000 bracket which is quite massive. I'm glad we saved the money for university.

That said, choose what you feel will serve your child best and is in line with their wants.

 

[madharris]

I have been privileged and my parents have worked hard to send me to a private school from year 5 - 12

While attending school, I have gotten many opportunities academically and non academically:
-While at school the facilities were constantly being maintained and upgraded to suit the growing nature of the school
-Teacher were happy to help students at lunchtimes, before and after school if they had any trouble or problems (I was often tutored 1 on 1 for maths and a few other subjects)
-Teachers set a reasonable amount of homework and actually check it to ensure the student is learning by him/herself
-Throughout the years, there have been many opportunities for sport including: rugby, soccer, tennis, fencing, cross country, tae kwon do, skiing (winter), dancing, swimming, cricket, basketball, rock climbing, squash
-I'm a musical person and at my school, our music department was always active (including the holidays - even after i finished my HSC i wanted to go back and give back to the school by helping them in various gigs). We have an amazing accompanist that is provided by the school, we had composition lessons, there are many ensembles for varying instruments and difficulty levels, amazing private tutors (however these are an addition to the school fees), weekly performing opportunities for individuals and ensembles to enhance their performance skills and fine tune their pieces as well as various gigs around sydney (sometimes paid).
-The technology almost always worked and was constantly updated
-The library is huge
-Of course in every private school there are students who are spoilt and bitchy however many get over this by year 12
-A strict no bullying policy (From what I heard and saw, many people were expelled because of bullying)
-I had many interactions with students from other schools for various acaademic programs, that allowed me to form new friendships

There's obviously many more things however I can't think of them at the moment. There are also many cons as with every other type of school however similarly I can't think of any at the moment besides the price of a private school. I am also very biased as I have not been to a public school however I do believe a private school environment is a lot better than a public school environment from what I have heard from many friends in public schools and friends who have moved from public to private and vice versa.

Hopefully that helps you make your decision. But ultimately your children should have to decide from themselves as their academic results will fall if they are unhappy

 

[CaffeineMotor]

Hi there,

I'm a private school student myself, so I'd just like to say that from my experience the private sector has been great and very rewarding. That aside, just because it's private doesn't guarantee a student an unfair advantage. Plenty of students do extremely well in the public sector because a) they studied hard and/or b) they had a supportive environment.

From the private side of things (yes I'm a little biased): I've found teaching quality has been great especially at my school, the student environment is also great as we all support each other and have plenty of resources at our disposal to help with our studies. For $8000 p/a that's actually a very good price, you don't want to know what some of us pay at other schools

Overall it comes down to a students aptitude and desire to excel at their studies, but a great supportive environment coupled with potentially a better quality set of teachers really can make a huge difference. Like others said, look at what your daughter wants the most and where she feels most comfortable. It may very well be that the public option could have a better environment and set of teachers but have a good look around.

 

[Bobbo1]

OP here. Thanks very much for your response guys.

My aim is to get my children into a good course at University. When I did my HSC 20 years ago, I had just migrated to Australia and went to an ordinary girls public school and got 94 in HSC without any tutoring. My brother did HSC 5 years after me at a school ranked 300-400 and he received 99.1 without any tutoring (we came from a background where study was everything). We went to an ordinary public school and ended up doing quite well.

However, I am told that things have changed now. They are much more competitive. Nearly every 2nd child is doing tutoring. The game is not fair any more.

Thats the only reason I am considering private. To give my kids an academic advantage. I tried tuoring for one term at Alpha Omega and didn't like it - too much homework and not much was taught in class.

After reading this I'd definitely say go with the private school. You wouldn't want to have that "What if I sent her to the private school" feeling 6 years down the track...

 

[ncoul]

Many kids get lost in the public school system

 

[gk786]

Thanks again guys. Your feedback is much appreciated.

So what you are telling me is this – unless my daughter is absolutely brilliant (i.e. top 3 in every subject), she does not have much of a chance of getting an ATAR above 90 – is that right? My goal for her would be around 90 in ATAR in HSC. That gives her some decent course choices in Uni.

My daughter is only 12 years old at this stage – she is not sure of what she wants. I have explained both schools to her and she is happy to go to either. As I said, she is an above average child and a good student but is not gifted or anything. To give an indication, she got NAPLAN Band 7s in all subjects in year 5 (Top band is band 8).

 

[epz]

Hey,
I go to a public school and I am going to be straight out honest. I hate it! There are literally 5 people out of my entire cohort (~70 people) who actually want to try and go well in the HSC. Every class I go to, I face shitty students wasting a good teachers time and ultimately I have to learn so much away from school that I might as well just learn the entire syllabus at home. I'm not saying every public school is like that, I am just saying that in my personal experience, I really wish I had the financial support or support to go to a private school where doing well is pressured at least slightly upon.
Hope that helps.

 

[TheEntrepreneur]

Take your kids to the top 100 school, their marks will be pushed up in the HSC due to the better quality of the cohort and also teaching. Also they will be in a more competitve and hard-working environment which would motivate them to do well and make you proud!

 

[asadass]

If it doesn't put too much strain on your finances, I would chose the private school. (This is coming from a person who went to a public school ranked 200+)

 

[LoveHateSchool]

After reading this I'd definitely say go with the private school. You wouldn't want to have that "What if I sent her to the private school" feeling 6 years down the track...

That feeling can be there for every school.

Thanks again guys. Your feedback is much appreciated.

So what you are telling me is this – unless my daughter is absolutely brilliant (i.e. top 3 in every subject), she does not have much of a chance of getting an ATAR above 90 – is that right? My goal for her would be around 90 in ATAR in HSC. That gives her some decent course choices in Uni.

My daughter is only 12 years old at this stage – she is not sure of what she wants. I have explained both schools to her and she is happy to go to either. As I said, she is an above average child and a good student but is not gifted or anything. To give an indication, she got NAPLAN Band 7s in all subjects in year 5 (Top band is band 8).

Lol noway-top three in every subject at a rank 150-170 school would far exceed a 95 (if they are average or above scalers. A school that rank (dependent on cohort size of course) would have honestly like have at least 20 people getting over 90 every year, if not more if it's a bigger cohort like 20-40.

I mean normally private schools are smaller cohorts so not sure approx how many 90+s would be there-depends if it's small or big private school. I assume the private school would likely have similarish amount of 90+s but perhaps a smaller cohort and hence higher school ranking. (Depends where we are talking in top 100 though-I'm thinking just around a 100).

Take your kids to the top 100 school, their marks will be pushed up in the HSC due to the better quality of the cohort and also teaching. Also they will be in a more competitve and hard-working environment which would motivate them to do well and make you proud!

Depends how child responds to a competitive environment-also a child should really succeed on their intrinsic life goals and not to make their parents proud.

That said, $8000 is really good pricing for a top 100 private school-considering ones outside top 100 charge $25000. If you think the environment is better for her there-I guess it's not too much of a financial strain. Just saying that a 150-170 comprehensive is pretty good-I'd say there would be a big catering to the top end there for that to occur (there are perks/experiences that are good at being the top of a comprehensive).

 

[nifkeh]

just note: even if you go in a public school in year 7, you can still transfer out to selectives in year 8, 9, 10 and 11. from my experience, lots of people who transferred into my school in year 11 from lower ranked selectives or your average local high school are doing well, even better than some of the people who started in year 7. just because you go to a public school doesn't mean you are disadvantaged for the HSC - it is easier to come ranked first in the cohort than at a selective, but school's testing standards may be not quite as a HSC exam standard compared to a selective school.

private schools are good as students are exposed to everything opportunistically, not saying that public/selectives aren't like that (maybe to a small degree). you get more support for sports and probably studying at a private. studying is maybe more independent in a public/selective due to how the teacher is willing to help individually rather than as a class/all at once. However you can still participate in sports/co curriculars and enter competitions (sports, academic) normally in a public or selective, just that the full range of options is only available at private which gets more funding and support due to dedicated groups. However I say that private is at a price - even with going to a public + tutoring works out to be cheaper by a lot. At public schools you pay $1000 - $1500 per year in school contribs, compared to private which is a lot higher. With all that money you could save for going overseas or towards uni which also isn't cheap, given the fact that you have children which are only 1 year apart or so.

Also if you were to transfer into a selective from a private/public, you could still transfer from that selective into another higher ranked selective again and again. A 90 ATAR is much easier to attain if you are in the top 10 schools - provided if you put in the work and are not literally coming last in the cohort, however many of these students are independent workers and do not only rely on the teacher for help and the academics are more competitive (however not all of the students at these schools go to tutoring). A 90 ATAR is still attainable at any school, just that it requires more of the individual's work than instead of the cohort helping to push the marks up. NB: Most of the top 10 schools are selectives with only 2 privates or so at the bottom of the top 10 list, but getting to these selectives from a public school is not as hard as you think

If you are considering to transfer into a selective school one day - you will need to show off your achievements if you are to apply to them. Just include some certificates of sporting activities, academics (e.g. ICAS certificates, maths comps, science comps, language tests), co curriculars, what you participated in/represented in your old school and community service such as volunteering and your school reports. Make sure to includes everything you can - if you know it will be a fat pile of info, just send it because you get a better advantage. However some of the top top selective schools require a test to be sat and possibly an interview - just accelerate/learn some of your content for the next school year and sit it and hopefully you do fine.