Indonesian spying allegations (2 Viewers)

[DannyBoy33]

Well, why wouldn't they fight about it? One of the primary goals of the forum is to make people debate, right? I mean, if he's trolling, that's something else, but I wouldn't call this trolling.

 

[funkshen]

newcastle2012, the reason you didn't elicit any reasonable responses is probably because you have no idea what a paragraph is.

use them to structure your arguments.

use them frequently.

 

[hawkrider]

Well, why wouldn't they fight about it? One of the primary goals of the forum is to make people debate, right? I mean, if he's trolling, that's something else, but I wouldn't call this trolling.

That's true, but this debate has escalated into something where each side attacked each other, which means they went too far imo.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Welp this shit is finally over, see apologizing to indoensia is pretty much what was needed. That's all they wanted and shits been solved.

 

[funkshen]

Welp this shit is finally over, see apologizing to indoensia is pretty much what was needed. That's all they wanted and shits been solved.

thank god, now we can go back to tapping their phones

 

[kaz1]

Abbott is just another verminous British immigrant - he was born in Britain as was Gillard, a predecessor to the anglo prime ministerial throne.

Abbott's allegiance is firmly with the British parasite queen.

Abbott's been described among many other colorful adjectives, an airhead muscle-bound moron. I concur: he's your typical racist anglophile twat, and hence the ongoing debacle with Jakarta.

Arrogant racist Abbott refuses to apologize to the Indonesia President. This is because the Indonesian President is brown, and racist anglophiles / British spawn don't admit guilt to the inferior coloreds.

 

[newcastle2012]

Thanks hawkrider and perhaps my paragraphs are the reason I don't do well in english lol Anyway kaz1 you are obviously trolling us now. Firstly Australia still identifies strongly with the British monarchy (look back on the referendum on becoming a republic.) Secondly what you have written would be classified as highly discriminatory and defamatory and what you have stated is blatantly made up bs like previously in this thread. Now you say he is racist because he wouldn't apologize to the Indonesian prime minister yet not that long ago their intelligence chief admitted they were actively spying in Australia yet we didn't get an apology now did we.

Now the reason we are not apologizing is because they are doing the same thing to us and secondly the Australian government regardless of party has the policy of not commenting on security issues which serves to protect the Australian community. Thirdly it was revealed earlier in this entire event that Indonesia doesn't even now what we were spying for I mean all they had to do was ring one person to find out yet have failed to even educate themselves on the entire event.

Finally you are an absolute shame upon Australia and to even contemplate that you call yourself Australian disgusts me as your purely racist rant only shows how narrow minded you are. I myself am an immigrant from Europe living happily in Australia and your racist attitude towards immigrants is in no way "Australian." You are lower than filth for that utterly racist statement in my opinion.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Thanks hawkrider and perhaps my paragraphs are the reason I don't do well in english lol Anyway kaz1 you are obviously trolling us now. Firstly Australia still identifies strongly with the British monarchy (look back on the referendum on becoming a republic.) Secondly what you have written would be classified as highly discriminatory and defamatory and what you have stated is blatantly made up bs like previously in this thread. Now you say he is racist because he wouldn't apologize to the Indonesian prime minister yet not that long ago their intelligence chief admitted they were actively spying in Australia yet we didn't get an apology now did we.

Now the reason we are not apologizing is because they are doing the same thing to us and secondly the Australian government regardless of party has the policy of not commenting on security issues which serves to protect the Australian community. Thirdly it was revealed earlier in this entire event that Indonesia doesn't even KNOW what we were spying for, I mean all they had to do was ring one person to find out yet have failed to even educate themselves on the entire event.

Finally you are an absolute shame upon Australia and to even contemplate that you call yourself Australian disgusts me as your purely racist rant only shows how narrow minded you are. I myself am an immigrant from Europe living happily in Australia and your racist attitude towards immigrants is in no way "Australian." You are lower than filth for that utterly racist statement in my opinion.

Fixed if for you xD

 

[isildurrrr1]

Thanks hawkrider and perhaps my paragraphs are the reason I don't do well in english lol Anyway kaz1 you are obviously trolling us now. Firstly Australia still identifies strongly with the British monarchy (look back on the referendum on becoming a republic.) Secondly what you have written would be classified as highly discriminatory and defamatory and what you have stated is blatantly made up bs like previously in this thread. Now you say he is racist because he wouldn't apologize to the Indonesian prime minister yet not that long ago their intelligence chief admitted they were actively spying in Australia yet we didn't get an apology now did we.

Now the reason we are not apologizing is because they are doing the same thing to us and secondly the Australian government regardless of party has the policy of not commenting on security issues which serves to protect the Australian community. Thirdly it was revealed earlier in this entire event that Indonesia doesn't even now what we were spying for I mean all they had to do was ring one person to find out yet have failed to even educate themselves on the entire event.

Finally you are an absolute shame upon Australia and to even contemplate that you call yourself Australian disgusts me as your purely racist rant only shows how narrow minded you are. I myself am an immigrant from Europe living happily in Australia and your racist attitude towards immigrants is in no way "Australian." You are lower than filth for that utterly racist statement in my opinion.

I guess not really doing well in English has really shown your lack of understanding of satire.

 

[newcastle2012]

isildurrrr1 well based on the bs you said I wasn't at all surprised if it was serious anyway go and bait someone else or even better go bs somewhere else you know in a world where we have "important" military and economic ties with Indonesia and the USA pays for "hundreds of thousands" of soldiers to sit around in the Asia-Pacific region. Anyway who seriously cares about English I may not have gone well in English but Economics and Legal Studies I have been performing to University standards since early this year (head of economics at Macquarie) anyway I was having a laugh at myself I do not care for english anyway. In terms of being satire it wasn't in anyway humorous but in fact racist anyway oh I am so so sorry that I couldn't pick up on sarcasm OVER A COMPUTER! Seriously screw your head on straight.

 

[hawkrider]

Civility guys...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[isildurrrr1]

isildurrrr1 well based on the bs you said I wasn't at all surprised if it was serious anyway go and bait someone else or even better go bs somewhere else you know in a world where we have "important" military and economic ties with Indonesia and the USA pays for "hundreds of thousands" of soldiers to sit around in the Asia-Pacific region. Anyway who seriously cares about English I may not have gone well in English but Economics and Legal Studies I have been performing to University standards since early this year (head of economics at Macquarie) anyway I was having a laugh at myself I do not care for english anyway. In terms of being satire it wasn't in anyway humorous but in fact racist anyway oh I am so so sorry that I couldn't pick up on sarcasm OVER A COMPUTER! Seriously screw your head on straight.

I guess somebody didn't know about the history of Australia helping Indonesian secret police and militias kill communists and the fact that we trained their elite counter-terror unit Densus 88. Yeah not like Keating and Suharto had a close friendship at all.

 

[newcastle2012]

isiildurrrr1 we have all seen the bs that you have cooked up in this thread and I am not going to argue with someone who just doesn't get it. You just can't admit you are wrong so you make up bs.

 

[isildurrrr1]

isiildurrrr1 we have all seen the bs that you have cooked up in this thread and I am not going to argue with someone who just doesn't get it. You just can't admit you are wrong so you make up bs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachment_88

Detachment 88 is assisted by foreign agencies, including the Australian Federal Police, in forensic sciences including DNA analysis, and communications monitoring. In pre-emptive strikes in Java, the unit thwarted attack plans to material assembly.[4]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/sa...ias-feared-unit/2005/10/25/1130239521899.html

That's just to throw some few examples. People seriously underestimate the level of relationship between aus and indo, especially in terms of a strategic/military relationship in the fight against both communism and islamic extremism.

 

[newcastle2012]

Okay then if you really want to prove that you aren't bs like others as well as myself have found out prove how Indonesia is such a benefit to us economically and militarily as opposed to the other way around (as you stated earlier), prove that the US has "hundreds of thousands" of troops stationed in the entire Asia-Pacific Region TODAY, as well as how Indonesia is so so so much more important to Australia than China. In terms of the cooperation it is pretty damn ethical ain't it to be aiding an foreign governments special forces who have a history of human rights abuse ain't it? I have already proven all of my points in cold hard facts.

 

[isildurrrr1]

Okay then if you really want to prove that you aren't bs like others as well as myself have found out prove how Indonesia is such a benefit to us economically and militarily as opposed to the other way around (as you stated earlier), prove that the US has "hundreds of thousands" of troops stationed in the entire Asia-Pacific Region TODAY, as well as how Indonesia is so so so much more important to Australia than China. In terms of the cooperation it is pretty damn ethical ain't it to be aiding an foreign governments special forces who have a history of human rights abuse ain't it? I have already proven all of my points in cold hard facts.

What has ethics got to do with anything? We always trained people to do the dirty work for us. It's the british/american way of exerting foreign policy goals. The US pretty much sponsored every single dictator who wasn't a communist. Hell they even sold weapons to Saddam in the 80s. In foreign policy, a country's human rights abuses doesn't really mean shit when you're trying to destroy your enemy be it communists or islamic insurgents. ASIO had a long history of aiding filipino and indonesian secret police, running "interrogation" techniques and psy ops tactics.

Yes I was wrong about US having "hundreds of thousands of troops" in asia-pacific, but my point still stand that the US can easily deploy half a million troops within 48 hours if they really wanted to.

Keeping indonesia on our side is very very important when you consider most of our trade links go through their maritime territory and they are a HUGE military to our north.

 

[newcastle2012]

Ethics has everything to do with it if Australia started with human rights abuse you can bet that the UN and the rest of the world would be on our doorstep in a heartbeat.

In terms of mobilizing half a million troops in 48 hours that is ludicrous. Logistically they would have to organised personnel, arms, ammunition, army vehicles (Tanks, Jeeps, Missile Launchers and Artillery), naval vessels, planes, rations as well as construction and military equipment. Now the US ARMED FORCES has approx 1.429 million active personnel and quite a portion of those are currently overseas in foreign countries such as Japan, Germany, UK and South Korea as well as many more. To mobilize half a million personnel in 48 hours would be logistically impossible.

In terms of trade almost all of our trade goes through sea which is classified as economically exclusive which every vessel has freedom of navigation of now the Indonesians wouldn't be stupid enough to mess around with trade ships in this area as it would risk a embargo against them for breaches of international law particularly the law of the sea.

Militarily they may have a moderate army but they are nowhere near the same quality as ours they spend $8.4 billion dollars on their military annually we spend $25.3 billion annually meaning our armed forces are much heavily equipped, trained and prepared than theirs. On top of that their main suppliers are Australia, USA, China, UK, South Korea and other EU members now they are all much more heavily allied with Australia than Indonesia not only due to prior assistance and support but also because Australia controls an absolute ton of metals which any nation needs to continue a war of any type e.g. WW1 and WW2 see how desperate Britain was for metals when they couldn't get any of them for the war effort. Anyway over all their military may be bigger than ours but our army absolutely blows theirs away in terms of quality of everything else available to us and manpower doesn't always mean victory e.g. Germany in WW2

 

[JohnMaximus]

Look at how America is dealing with the fallout of spying allegations. They don't go around telling people "lol tough titties."

That's why America is beta and Australia is alpha.

As for trade ties and crap, Indonesia will either deal with it or we can take our millions of aid dollars and go.

 

[isildurrrr1]

That's why America is beta and Australia is alpha.

As for trade ties and crap, Indonesia will either deal with it or we can take our millions of aid dollars and go.

Foreign aid goes both ways and foreign aid should NEVER EVER be used directly as leverage, it becomes very disingenuous when you start doing that.

 

[newcastle2012]

That's why America is beta and Australia is alpha.

As for trade ties and crap, Indonesia will either deal with it or we can take our millions of aid dollars and go.

Exactly I agree entirely