Internal and External Marks (1 Viewer)

[arctic-fox]

Hey guys,

I need this cleared up. I understand it, but I'm not sure it's correct.
The other day it was explained to me by a teacher that none of the internal marks carry through - just the ranks. So for example...

Marks in Internal Assessment:
Person A) 95% (ranked 1st)
B)92 (2nd)
C)84 (3rd)
D)83 (4th)
E)79 (5th)

Then in the External Exam:
D)98
B)94
A)90
E)86
C)85

So my understanding is that Person D would get the 4th external exam mark (86) averaged with his real exam mark (98) to get 92 as a final result. None of the *marks* from internal assessments are counted, just the ranks when they're applied to the HSC exams. Each mark achieved in the HSC exam by a cohort goes to two people: the person who got that mark in the exam, and the person who ranked in that position in internal assessment. The two are averaged out as follows:

Person A) 98 (their rank applied to the HSC exam results) +90 (actual result) divided by 2 = 94
B) 92+94 / 2 = 93
C) 90+85 / 2 = 87.5
D) see above
E) 86+85 / 2 = 85.5

Does that make sense, and if so - is it correct????? It's the first time someone has explained it to me in a way I understand, but since everyone else (including other teachers) appears just as confused as I am, I'm not entirely sure it's correct.

Can someone confirm/deny this? I'm about to start trials and I think it's about time I knew for sure what was going on with internal assessment.

Thank you!

 

[InteGrand]

Hey guys,

I need this cleared up. I understand it, but I'm not sure it's correct.
The other day it was explained to me by a teacher that none of the internal marks carry through - just the ranks. So for example...

Marks in Internal Assessment:
Person A) 95% (ranked 1st)
B)92 (2nd)
C)84 (3rd)
D)83 (4th)
E)79 (5th)

Then in the External Exam:
D)98
B)94
A)90
E)86
C)85

So my understanding is that Person D would get the 4th external exam mark (86) averaged with his real exam mark (98) to get 92 as a final result. None of the *marks* from internal assessments are counted, just the ranks when they're applied to the HSC exams. Each mark achieved in the HSC exam by a cohort goes to two people: the person who got that mark in the exam, and the person who ranked in that position in internal assessment. The two are averaged out as follows:

Person A) 98 (their rank applied to the HSC exam results) +90 (actual result) divided by 2 = 94
B) 92+94 / 2 = 93
C) 90+85 / 2 = 87.5
D) see above
E) 86+85 / 2 = 85.5

Does that make sense, and if so - is it correct????? It's the first time someone has explained it to me in a way I understand, but since everyone else (including other teachers) appears just as confused as I am, I'm not entirely sure it's correct.

Can someone confirm/deny this? I'm about to start trials and I think it's about time I knew for sure what was going on with internal assessment.

Thank you!

This is a classic and oversimplified explanation that is not quite correct. Your school marks (mainly insofar as the distribution of and relative gaps compared to other students in your cohort) are also important.

 

[arctic-fox]

Oh, okay - thank you!

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it? I have a cohort who have been unfortunately misled to believe that your exam mark goes to the person of that rank. It leaves everyone scrambling for good ranks, but the attitude after trials will be "Eh, I've got my rank, so why bother working hard for a mark that is going to someone else?"
Obviously that brings us all down, so I want to have a solid explanation up my sleeve to counter my cohort's blase attitudes about externals.

 

[D94]

Oh, okay - thank you!

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it? I have a cohort who have been unfortunately misled to believe that your exam mark goes to the person of that rank. It leaves everyone scrambling for good ranks, but the attitude after trials will be "Eh, I've got my rank, so why bother working hard for a mark that is going to someone else?"
Obviously that brings us all down, so I want to have a solid explanation up my sleeve to counter my cohort's blase attitudes about externals.

Well if they can't comprehend it, then tell them half their mark is their own exam mark, so if they do poorly in the exam, then their overall mark will be poor.

The moderation process is found here: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/hsc-results/moderation.html

From this image, it's clear that the assessment marks don't just align with the exam marks. They reflect their in school performance in terms of the spread of the marks.

Then plot the moderated mark to the assessment mark:

The top exam mark is fixed, and the bottom exam mark is generally fixed but subject to change due to mismatch in means. All other marks within are spread according to a quadratic function that takes in variables such as the mean and spread of marks.

If you search this forum, or even just my posts, you will find that I've attempted to explain it countless times.

 

[A1P]

So my understanding is that Person D would get the 4th external exam mark (86)

It works like that^^ with a large cohort and the spread is fairly even. Otherwise it doesn't, as seen in this BOSTES doc <http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/hsc-results/moderation.html> the 2nd exam mark is 80 but "B" gets 77.

I have described how it works approximately in another thread but repeat it here for your convenience.

- The 1st ranked internal gets the top exam mark
- The last ranked internal gets the bottom exam mark (there are exceptions but skip them for now)

Now after leaving out these two students
- Draw a pie chart representing all the internal marks from 2nd ranked to 2nd last ranked, your internal share being a slice of this pie.

- For Assessment marks, this pie will expand or shrink in size depending on the total of 2nd exam mark to 2nd last exam mark. Your slice expands or shrinks accordingly.

Hope you can visualise it. And as D94 wrote this is only half the HSC mark, each student enjoys or suffers their own exam mark too.