international student and law - any correlation???? (1 Viewer)

[jakree_golf]

i'm an international student currently finishing the HSC and am deciding what course to do at uni. i have always had a passion in laws, however, i doubt whether law would be, understanably, too difficult for me as it is a course that demands such a high level of english proficiency i have heard (i am from a non-english speaking background and only have been in Aus for two years)

Although i have internally ranked first in 3 subjects (all essay-based including economics, business studies and english esl (3rd also for ancient history)) out of the 5 i'm doing for the HSC (my school is half selective ranking around the 150s in the state), when it comes to to spoken english, i often find it difficult to precisely express my opinion.

so yeah, im just wondering whether:

1) there are many overseas students do laws at whichever uni you guys go to (but particularly UNSW and USyd)
2) there is a strong correlation between english proficiency and succeeding the course (of course there is but then to what extent??)
3) i would have any chance of success provided that i am a very dedicated and determined type of person

your opinion will be very appreciated

 

[M@C D@DDY]

i'm an international student currently finishing the HSC and am deciding what course to do at uni. i have always had a passion in laws, however, i doubt whether law would be, understanably, too difficult for me as it is a course that demands such a high level of english proficiency i have heard (i am from a non-english speaking background and only have been in Aus for two years)

Although i have internally ranked first in 3 subjects (all essay-based including economics, business studies and english esl (3rd also for ancient history)) out of the 5 i'm doing for the HSC (my school is half selective ranking around the 150s in the state), when it comes to to spoken english, i often find it difficult to precisely express my opinion.

so yeah, im just wondering whether:

1) there are many overseas students do laws at whichever uni you guys go to (but particularly UNSW and USyd)
2) there is a strong correlation between english proficiency and succeeding the course (of course there is but then to what extent??)
3) i would have any chance of success provided that i am a very dedicated and determined type of person

your opinion will be very appreciated

Hey Jakree:
Start off with the good news, there are quite a few International students who study law with me at UNSW at the moment and they seem to cope fine. If it is truly your passion, then you should definitely pursue it. To answer your questions, there is a definite correlation between your grasp at English and succeeding at Law. I had a friend recently who made some basic grammar and spelling mistakes in his essay and was cut down hard by the lecturer. However, bear in mind that law also encompasses problem solving, though unlike mathematics, with words. But certainly the ability to think logically and clearly is very important for success. And at UNSW we have a component of our assessment which incorporates oral contributions in class, and that counts for between 10-20% of your overall assessment. Lastly, only you would know the answer to that final question.

Good luck with your HSC and choosing your uni options.

 

[Frigid]

i concur with the above advice, and only want to add the following: do not be afraid to use a dictionary in law school (we all do sometimes); and do not allow yourself to think that language will be a barrier. It is only one if you let it to be.

 

[banco55]

1)Nearly all the international students at ANU are from Hong Kong, Singapore or Malaysia.

2)Yes there's a strong correlation between a person's proficiency in English and their success at law school.

3)I think if you worked really hard you could do alright but u'd probably struggle to do well at law (ie distinctions) as you'd be starting off at a big disadvantage.

You sound like you are good at economics/commerce? They are easier to excel in if you aren't fantastic at English and the job market is probably better for economics/commerce graduates.

 

[dissipate]

having a good command of english certainly helps with grades, but i wouldn't turn it into a pass/fail matter. what mac daddy said about the problem solving bit is right... there's no point in a student having brilliant english if they are unable to think logically and spot issues and know how to apply the law. this isn't a degree in english or literature.

don't let your non-english speaking background hinder your passion. you can always work on improving your english at the same time.

 

[jakree_golf]

thanks much to you all, your suggestions are very helpful and appreciating

 

[Frigid]

your suggestions are very helpful and appreciating

you might, however, want to brush up on the proper usage of the verb, "to appreciate".

 

[miss-smexy]

Do commerce and major in business law?

 

[Rorix]

You'd be hard pressed to do well. I wouldn't recommend it unless you're pretty comfortable with your English. People here are saying that you'll still pass..which might be true, but what are you going to do with a 55WAM??

 

[banco55]

having a good command of english certainly helps with grades, but i wouldn't turn it into a pass/fail matter. what mac daddy said about the problem solving bit is right... there's no point in a student having brilliant english if they are unable to think logically and spot issues and know how to apply the law. this isn't a degree in english or literature.

don't let your non-english speaking background hinder your passion. you can always work on improving your english at the same time.

I agree it's probably not a pas/fail matter but these days with so many law students being churned out you really need to be shooting for a high credit/distinction average to make it worth your while. Plus in law the assessment tends to be heavily weighted towards final exams which would further disadvantage someone with poor english. At least with take home stuff you can rewrite and rewrite.

I think it's great that he's passionate about it but there are quite a few other students passionate about law and the law schools grade on a curve.

 

[jakree_golf]

lol i dont know

maybe my limited linguistic ability would certainly hinder my success in law, but then when i look back, i've just been here for only 2 years and still have managed to beat most of the locals who do english extension 1 and 2 in all my essay writing subjects in a selective school. and my english has improved significantly in these two years; its not brilliant like u guys but then...... i dont know, would i have a better chance to improve my english further if i did law than if i did things like commerce and economics???

why is life so tough = =

 

[Frigid]

would i have a better chance to improve my english further if i did law than if i did things like commerce and economics???

definitely!

reading 100+ page cases in full will improve your english!

 

[Suvat]

lol studying law to improve english... first time I've heard that

But yeah, if you are passionate about law go for it by all means, if you find it's not your cup of tea, you could always drop it after first semester and continue your other degree.

 

[M@C D@DDY]

lol i dont know

maybe my limited linguistic ability would certainly hinder my success in law, but then when i look back, i've just been here for only 2 years and still have managed to beat most of the locals who do english extension 1 and 2 in all my essay writing subjects in a selective school. and my english has improved significantly in these two years; its not brilliant like u guys but then...... i dont know, would i have a better chance to improve my english further if i did law than if i did things like commerce and economics???

why is life so tough = =

I think it's important to have a go! Many of us go into our legal studies without a full understanding of what the profession entails. However many of us continue to enjoy the challenge and the workload simply because we enjoy the academic stimulation (^^). Having been here for only 2 years, it is definitely going to be difficult for you, that is without question. But with the right attitude (which you have) and a lot of hard work, you can no doubt bridge that gap.

You also have to keep in mind that uni and High School is very different, especially when you enter law school. There are many brilliant minds, people from very different backgrounds, but everyone is very competitive. You have to prepare yourself for that!