Is smacking a child ever acceptable? (2 Viewers)

[ashie0]

If you can't communicate your point to a child without hitting them you really shouldn't have kids. How on earth is smacking your child to teach them right and wrong even logical?

 

[dieburndie]

What would your useful form of punishment be, then, if you even see discipline as a necessary thing?

Forcing them to sit through a Young Liberal meeting.

 

[Kwayera]

Forcing them to sit through a Young Liberal meeting.

Oh come on, those are buckets of fun!

 

[dieburndie]

Oh come on, those are buckets of fun!

You're a vile bunch of corpses.

 

[Kwayera]

You're a vile bunch of corpses.

Are you saying I smell?

 

[dieburndie]

No, because children develop intellectually whereas someone who is severely retarded isn't capable of learning for the majority of cases. They are stuck at one level of intellectuality and thus smacking would be fruitless.

In the case that they are able to learn at some level.
An adult with Down's Syndrome, for example.

 

[chelsea girl]

What would your useful form of punishment be, then, if you even see discipline as a necessary thing?

ooohhh yeah, I am a massive hippie who doesn't believe in discipline, mannnnnnnn!


You like animals, you care about the welfare of pets. Let me ask you: would you smack a puppy or a kitten while they were being toilet-trained and made a mistake?

Most people, I am sure, would not. Why? Because we acknowledge that it does the puppy or kitten no good and only makes them afraid and upset. Why can't children be afforded the same courtesy?

 

[dieburndie]

Are you saying I smell?

Like fur and fascism.

 

[John McCain]

What is the difference between the use of the cane by teachers and smacking by parents? Why is one justified and not the other?

AFAIK there are also some laws in place regarding teachers hugging kids at school. Does that mean that society thinks that a hug is detrimental to a kid's development? No. It means that society thinks that teachers shouldn't be touching kids.

Same thing with the cane. Why wasn't spanking in the home banned at the same time? Because the laws aren't necessarily about whether physical discipline is a bad thing, they're about who gets to mete out that discipline.

Why is it okay for parents to meet out punishment but not teachers though? What makes parents better judges of appropriate punishment? If anything teachers are more accountable.

Another explanation might be that children of school age are old enough to use deductive logic and be reasoned with and therefore clearly too old for smacking/caning, whether it takes place in the home or at school.

And if the child deliberately chooses to willfully disobey deductive logic, as they are want to do? Why not punish them as the last resort, to teach them the consequences of not listening and being considerate towards others?

Also there are significant differences between a smack and a caning. Most notably that one involves hitting a kid with a wooden stick and the other one does not. The use of an implement like a cane raises connotations of violence which in my opinion don't have to exist with smacking -- it turns the process into ritualised violence rather than a quick "happens once and then it's over" event.

This seems quite an arbitrary distinction. What is the difference between if I hit my children with my fist or a wooden spoon, the result is the same? What if the teachers didn't use the cane and used their hands and fists instead, would it then be okay?

 

[Kwayera]

Like fur and fascism.

Fair point with the fur (some of them are a bit musty) but fascist? Oh come on, you can do better than that!

 

[dieburndie]

Fair point with the fur (some of them are a bit musty) but fascist? Oh come on, you can do better than that!

You mean you want me to refer to specifics like falling in line to sign anti-drug petitions?

 

[Kwayera]

ooohhh yeah, I am a massive hippie who doesn't believe in discipline, mannnnnnnn!


You like animals, you care about the welfare of pets. Let me ask you: would you smack a puppy or a kitten while they were being toilet-trained and made a mistake?

Most people, I am sure, would not. Why? Because we acknowledge that it does the puppy or kitten no good and only makes them afraid and upset. Why can't children be afforded the same courtesy?

In your case? No, because a submissive urinating in the presence of a dominant is instinctual, and punishing a puppy for peeing would only incite more peeing.

But in other circumstances? Yes, of course - as their mother would have (though not smacking, per se). When my dog was a puppy, and bit when she played? I would pinch her side as if in a nip (as an adult dog would have done to a misbehaving puppy). If it continued? Instant grab of the muzzle with thumb and forefinger, simulating mother's teeth, and roll onto back, simulating dominance.

When my cat occasionally climbs things (grab by scruff, shake like her mother would have done, drop and ignore) or occasionally lets her play nibbles get a bit hard (flick on the nose)? Yes, of course. I also used aversion therapy with my cat - sprayed water on her when she got up onto a surface she wasn't allowed onto.

These techniques take cues from instinct, and apply punishments as their parents would have done when they were young and misbehaved.

Abuse? Not in this universe.

EDIT: all of these punishments were done in conjunction with saying a firm "NO", which eventually replaced the need for a physical punishment. Same as with children?

 

[Kwayera]

You mean you want me to refer to specifics like falling in line to sign anti-drug petitions?

WTF are you talking about? I never did and never would sign something like that. I believe in drug legalisation..?

 

[dieburndie]

WTF are you talking about? I never did and never would sign something like that. I believe in drug legalisation..?

On topic, you never answered my last reply about the purpose of smacking.

 

[Kwayera]

You're going to need to be more specific.

What about physical punishment is doing this, that doesn't "shame them/make them sad/make them afraid"?

Well I suppose I should correct my statement to say that smacking wouldn't incite any MORE shame/sadness than other punishments, because that is what punishment is designed to do: teach right and wrong by making you feel BAD about doing wrong. Teaching them to not do wrong just because you say so is missing the point.

Re: fear, well this is debateable, I suppose. I didn't fear my parents because they smacked me, but I feared the punishment. I also feared other punishments, such as time-outs, not being allowed to see friends/etc, so I guess you'd have to define what fear you're talking about. If you're talking of inducing fear of parents? Then whatever physical punishment those parents are meting out is too much.

 

[John McCain]

Hey kwayera, would you support the reintroduction of the cane to schools?

 

[Kwayera]

Hey kwayera, would you support the reintroduction of the cane to schools?

Not anymore than I would support a parent's right to smack a child's hands with a stick?

 

[ad infinitum]

When you use violence to 'teach' a child, you are telling that child that violence is OK. It is no coincidence that most violent criminals had rough upbringings.

 

[Kwayera]

When you use violence to 'teach' a child, you are telling that child that violence is OK. It is no coincidence that most violent criminals had rough upbringings.

That depends on if smacking sparingly on the bum counts as violence.

 

[John McCain]

Not anymore than I would support a parent's right to smack a child's hands with a stick?

I don't see the difference. Your mother threatened you with a riding crop, if you'd continually misbehaved in the face of her warnings, she'd been forced to use it and follow through on her threats, would that have been wrong?

You can hit very hard with a hand, or very softly with a stick, I don't see the problem if the results are the same?

Alright, say the cane is excessively violent. Would you support teachers right to use reasonable physical force to discipline children, with their hands alone?