isreali- paleistine (2 Viewers)

[jenzipoo]

omg. im a racist because i have mentioned Israel is sort of fucked up. i even mentioned that in my post that this is what is wrong with pro-Israeli fuck wits.

and with the highlighted part......is that how low you have come. your going to tell me to leave Australia because i don’t have the same views as you and the govt on the Israeli issue? you should fuck off you pathetic intolerant fuck.

Yes you are. Just because you state something is 'fucked up' doesn't make that statement any less racist in nature. Read what you wrote. There was no justification for any of your far fetched statements.
No I meant leave Australia if you don't agree with the ideologies by which this country lives and governs by.

The rest of your post is in regards to what has happened after Israel. simply stating that Israel should be created because of European treatment is not a reason as to why Palestine had to give up its land and does not justify current apartheid going on in Palestine.

I also stated it for religious reasons not because of what happened in Europe. Now you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Really think about the past, the neccesity for a Jewish state and the urgency inflicted upon that neccesity in the wake of the Holocaust. And now take nathan's justification of the UN vote and you have Israel's legal right to exist.
O and please look up what an Apartheid is. I lived in South Africa most of my life and have been to Israel and the middle east, don't begin to compare the two situations when you are only mouthing off propaganda rhethoric with no solid base.

the conflict today is a problem from both sides. to say its all the Arabs fault is ludicrous. israel should go back to its original borders and make Jerusalem an international city. if that happens then i don't give a shit. SA is also partially to blame.

No one is saying its all the Arab's fault. Jews and Israelis are their toughest critics and critisice the government far worse than anyone else. Israel will never go back to the 48' borders. That plan isn't even fought for anymore. As I said in my previous post, the '68 borders are more realistic and is what both sides are bargaining. Jerusalem will never be an international city. From a safety perspective and mainly a religious perspective Israel will never give it back. They lost too many soldiers fighting for their religious centre back, it is mentioned everywhere in their Holy Books and they pray facing it 3 times daily.

 

[Ademir]

Yes you are. Just because you state something is 'fucked up' doesn't make that statement any less racist in nature. Read what you wrote. There was no justification for any of your far fetched statements.
No I meant leave Australia if you don't agree with the ideologies by which this country lives and governs by.

Countries don't espouse views or hold ideologies. People do. If you're trying to say that a majority of Australians agree with this ideology you make reference to, that may very well be true, but the same people (for the most part) believe in freedom of speech also. Makes no sense to want someone out because they disagree with your views.

 

[bigboyjames]

it seems to me it is not a matter of debate, if some people have the bad taste, to raise the question of the proclaimed truth of the sacred bullshit Zionist story of Israel. Tthe keepers of the false truth do not enter debate with them, but if some do they ignore them and denounce them blasphemy or anti-Semitic, racist (can someone help my find my racist comments) and the latest being asked to leave the country.

the more you begin to investigate, the more you will begin to see we have been lied to. we have been lied to by every institution what makes you think for one minute that the zionist institution is the only one that hasnt been touched? the zionist institution in this world are at the bottom of the dirt. the Zionist/religious institution in this world are the same people who gave America its government, who gave us our corrupt education, who gave us our corrupt leaders- because our masters don't give a fuck about you or your family all they care about is what they have always cared about is themselves and controlling the whole fucking world.


we have been mislead from the truth and divine presence of Israel. unless you are prepared look at the whole truth, where ever it may go, who ever it may lead to, if you want to look the other way or if you want to play favorites then somewhere along the line your going to find out that your are a fucking hypocritical retard and are simply scared of the truth.

The greater good and the truth will always prevail. it is natural for earth to take this route. there was a time when Nazism died out, fascism was destroyed. communism was conquered. the day will come when Zionism will be eliminated......and that too for the greater good.

 

[Felix-x34]

I dont support a state based on religion

Omg, what a degenerate.

1/ Israel is a completely Secular nation,

2/ Palestine is not a sate

Israel has my full and undivided support. The country is a liberal democracy in a place where there's very little of them. Israeli's has been fighting terrorism since the beginning of their nation and their unwavering determination should be an example for all of us in this post 9/11 world.

As for the whole peace process. Although Israel has an inherent right to Judea and Sumeria, I think that its important they 'Disengage' themselves from a disastrous demographic situation and cede areas of Arab populated land to an independent Palestinian state.

My $0.02

 

[Ademir]

Omg, what a degenerate.

1/ Israel is a completely Secular nation,

2/ Palestine is not a sate

Israel has my full and undivided support. The country is a liberal democracy in a place where there's very little of them. Israeli's has been fighting terrorism since the beginning of their nation and their unwavering determination should be an example for all of us in this post 9/11 world.

As for the whole peace process. Although Israel has an inherent right to Judea and Sumeria, I think that its important they 'Disengage' themselves from a disastrous demographic situation and cede areas of Arab populated land to an independent Palestinian state.

My $0.02

While I don't agree with most of bigboyjames' post, I don't think it's fair to take this post out of context. I'm sure he knows Israel is a secular nation. I think what he meant was a state established primarily for the benefit and protection of a particular religious group (the Jews).

 

[nathan71088]

it seems to me it is not a matter of debate, if some people have the bad taste, to raise the question of the proclaimed truth of the sacred bullshit Zionist story of Israel. Tthe keepers of the false truth do not enter debate with them, but if some do they ignore them and denounce them blasphemy or anti-Semitic, racist (can someone help my find my racist comments) and the latest being asked to leave the country.

the more you begin to investigate, the more you will begin to see we have been lied to. we have been lied to by every institution what makes you think for one minute that the zionist institution is the only one that hasnt been touched? the zionist institution in this world are at the bottom of the dirt. the Zionist/religious institution in this world are the same people who gave America its government, who gave us our corrupt education, who gave us our corrupt leaders- because our masters don't give a fuck about you or your family all they care about is what they have always cared about is themselves and controlling the whole fucking world.


we have been mislead from the truth and divine presence of Israel. unless you are prepared look at the whole truth, where ever it may go, who ever it may lead to, if you want to look the other way or if you want to play favorites then somewhere along the line your going to find out that your are a fucking hypocritical retard and are simply scared of the truth.

The greater good and the truth will always prevail. it is natural for earth to take this route. there was a time when Nazism died out, fascism was destroyed. communism was conquered. the day will come when Zionism will be eliminated......and that too for the greater good.

"we have been lied to" "institution" "corrupt" These words...along with "greater good and the truth " often point towards some kind of conspiratorial pre-constructed notion. I am not challenging you as a person but the idea of:

"zionist institution in this world are at the bottom of the dirt. the Zionist/religious institution in this world are the same people who gave America its government, who gave us our corrupt education, who gave us our corrupt leaders- because our masters don't give a fuck about you or your family all they care about is what they have always cared about is themselves and controlling the whole fucking world"

really identifies some sort of paranoia. Paranoia? Because this train of thought is irrational. Are you part of the select few that can see through the lies, identfy the truth, recognise the corrupt zionist institution? Please, this sort of argument just undermines a position.

I'm guessing that you would like to note that you don't have a beef as such with jews, just zionists and their ideas. I present this then to all who like to separate their conspiracies between the two:because we all know that both jews and zionists alike control pretty much most of the world media, financials, defence, governemntal bodies and mot developed (and some non-developed) boards of education...with not just one super power trying to take over the world, how on earth are you still free to critique our all-powerful, all secret (yet you know about them, but we'll keep it on the hush-hush) "masters"? I would have expected them to have already silenced such words of detriment to world domination.

 

[sam04u]

While I don't agree with most of bigboyjames' post, I don't think it's fair to take this post out of context. I'm sure he knows Israel is a secular nation. I think what he meant was a state established primarily for the benefit and protection of a particular religious group (the Jews).

How is it a secular nation when it's a self-proclaimed nation for Jews? It has a star of David on the flag, every leader of the country has been Jewish (not a coincidence) all Jews are allowed citizenship to the country (even Jews with no ties to the land, including European Jews) whereas people who were living there even just 60 or so years ago aren't allowed to return.

Israel is the opposite of a secular state, it's an apartheid, discriminatory, terrorist state.

 

[sam04u]

post 9/11 world.

You're a fucking retard. You act like 9/11 matters to anyone outside of the "we must kill muslims" clique of retards. It was a terrorist attack, in the United States, which killed theamount of people killed monthly in Iraq, or weekly during the Blitz of London. (actually might be higher).

So fuck off with your exaggerations. It doesn't change the world.

 

[Ademir]

How is it a secular nation when it's a self-proclaimed nation for Jews? It has a star of David on the flag, every leader of the country has been Jewish (not a coincidence) all Jews are allowed citizenship to the country (even Jews with no ties to the land, including European Jews) whereas people who were living there even just 60 or so years ago aren't allowed to return.

Israel is the opposite of a secular state, it's an apartheid, discriminatory, terrorist state.

You make a good point, however I think the usage of the word "Jew" by Israel is meant in its purely ethnic context, not its religious one. For example, atheist Jews are afforded these same benefits as religious Jews. Your post only makes sense if you conflate religion/ethnicity (ie, believe that the two amount to the same thing in the Jewish case, are inseparable). The star of David is a religious symbol, I agree, but it can also be a purely ethnic one due to historical circumstances. Thus, the "advantages" afforded to Jewish people are because of their ethnicity, not their religion. Try to think of religion as a small aspect of Jewish ethnicity which is a part of what can make someone a Jew, but isn't necessarily required in order to be a Jew.

I agree with you mostly. I definitely don't think ethnicity is a ground for beneficial treatment. But I would still call Israel a "secular" state, at least to some extent, despite the fact that I agree it engages in discriminatory behaviour on ethnic grounds.

 

[ari89]

every leader of the country has been Jewish (not a coincidence)

Well, you see Sam. They elect their leader through this process known as a 'democracy'. Now, around 75% of Israelis come under the umbrella term of 'Jew'. As the majority, wouldn't you expect that their leaders are more likely to be Jewish than not?
Wouldn't this be a sign of democracy in action and representative government as opposed to a theocratic state?

Just putting that idea out there. In fact, I believe John Howard and Kevin Rudd are Christians. Does this make Australia some theocratic state?

And I agree with Ademir regarding the broadness of the term 'Jew'. Aren't most Israeli Jews secular? And the fact that you can be considered a Jew for simply having a Jewish mother/grandparents further broadens the term. Israel was established for Jews as a people, not Jews as a religion.

Was it not secular Jews behind the Zionist movement? Or do you only like to play that card when fitting Jews into NWO conspiracies/puppet governments and the Soviet Union?

 

[ari89]

I'm surprised at the very few votes for a mutual existence of Israel/Palestine in the region.

 

[JaredR]

You people are stupid.

Jews and Christians can't have a state of their own.

Only Muslims can.

Side note to Sam: Yes Israel does have the Star of David on it's flag, one flag of the world... how many flags of the world have that half-crescent moon and star?

 

[Snaykew]

Let's go into anarchy and let corporations provide us with stuff!

 

[bigboyjames]

really identifies some sort of paranoia. Paranoia? Because this train of thought is irrational. Are you part of the select few that can see through the lies, identfy the truth, recognise the corrupt zionist institution? Please, this sort of argument just undermines a position.

how is this some sort of paranoia? it is the truth. At very least, Zionists control America's Foreign Policy whenever Zionist-dominated Israeli interests are concerned. Zionist Christians and Zionist Jews dominate both political parties in the US Congress (just look at obama's stance in the last 2 weekss, he has moved to the center so quickly in the last 2 weeks than it took him to reach the left in his whole political career), as well as the overall direction and policies coming from the Bush-Cheney White House. They do so through awesome financial leverage and sheer numbers ... as well as far more dark and evil mechanisms such as Zionist Israel's thermonuclear blackmail of America as it is clearly described in a formal US Air Force paper.

when people like Sharon (former israel president) say stuff like this.....wtf do you want me to believe?!

"every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."
http://www.washington-report.org/html/newsitem_s.htm

I'm guessing that you would like to note that you don't have a beef as such with jews, just zionists and their ideas. I present this then to all who like to separate their conspiracies between the two:because we all know that both jews and zionists alike control pretty much most of the world media, financials, defence, governemntal bodies and mot developed (and some non-developed) boards of education...with not just one super power trying to take over the world, how on earth are you still free to critique our all-powerful, all secret (yet you know about them, but we'll keep it on the hush-hush) "masters"? I would have expected them to have already silenced such words of detriment to world domination.

I am not anti-jew (apparently i am though.......so many fucked up people on this board its just disturbing), more like being sick of the WWII guilt trip being used by the Israelis to denounce anything remotely against the country.

And just because some nut job in Germany killed a few million of them off is not a good enough reason to dispossess the Palestinians (christians too) of their land.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]England had as much right to promise Palestine to anybody, as the United States would have to promise Japan to Ireland for any reason whatsoever.

Hitler killed Jews along with tons of other people. Israel has a lot of Jews. So if you disagree with any of Israel's policies, you're a Jew-hating Nazi like Hitler. Or you ARE Hitler. I forget how the FUCK this argument goes. I disagree with Israel's foreign policies so apparently I'm a Neo Nazi skinhead. It's ridiculous. I have absolutely nothing against Judaism - It's Israel I have beef with. But like most people who dare to say this the become a anti-simetic. fucking oath.

The State of Israel has always been my favorite sham. "Hi German Jews. We feel horrible that so many of your family and friends were killed in WWII. Most of your houses are gone, too. So we're going to give you an area to live in. Not in Germany though, a few hundred miles away where some Palestinians are living. Don't worry, we'll just kick them out, kil their family and friedns, destroy their houses (sounds familiar?). It won't lead to any repercussions down the road."

FUCK ISRAEL.

 

[bigboyjames]

You people are stupid.

Jews and Christians can't have a state of their own.

Only Muslims can.

Side note to Sam: Yes Israel does have the Star of David on it's flag, one flag of the world... how many flags of the world have that half-crescent moon and star?

fuck off

 

[JaredR]

fuck off

Spoken like a true poet.

 

[bigboyjames]

Spoken like a true poet.

if you cant contribute anything to this thread.....take your shit else where.

oh wait....i know what your going to say.....im anti simetic.

 

[JaredR]

No I'm going to say you talk rubbish such as the post just before where you told me where to get off.

 

[bigboyjames]

No I'm going to say you talk rubbish such as the post just before where you told me where to get off.

unless you can counter attack it ..... stop dribbling.

the funny thing is.....jaredR....once this Palestinian-Israel argument got a bit serious, you and your other Zionist buddy didn't even enter the debate. its funny, because you and that other poof head are the only 2 people on this board with a Jewish flag as their avatar and go around talking shit on this forums but the second it gets serious your know where to be seen. its expected. i even mentioned you tools in post 69.

 

[JaredR]

Actually I haven't been posting much at all in the forums over the past two weeks as I've been busy elsewhere, but if you want me to read YOUR dribble (which so many more bosers have commented about) I will and will respond accordingly when the time fits.

Furthermore I do not have the "Jewish flag" as my avatar. I have the Star of David, a recognised symbol of Judaism and inside it the Iceland and Australian flags.

Now I'm going to work so shush until I bother to read your posts and respond... which will probably be this evening... I'm sure you can't wait.