James Ruse are cheaters and the BOS do not care. (3 Viewers)

[helper]

It comes down to how the school does it. Extension work is allowed and that may include 11 and 12 work. They cannot have a topic that is a year 11 or 12 topic.

Schools can choose to enhance their Year 10 program to prepare students for their Preliminary courses. This is different from commencing the Stage 6 program during Year 10. Schools would need to clearly differentiate between any enhancement to Year 10 programs and commencement of the Preliminary courses before day 1, Term 1 of the Year 11 calendar year.

All schools get involved in this, it is just a question of how they enhance their 9 and 10 program.

 

[Trebla]

If they're so talented why would they need an extra few years/months to prep them up for HSC maths? Is this "furthering talent" and "nurturing"? NSB is currently the top performing boys school at maths, you don't see them starting anything that is in the Year 12 course before year 12 and if you look at their exams the hardest it gets too is complex maximisation and minimisation problems - not log of e and advanced used of trigonometric functions.

What's wrong with accelerating? Of course it is nurturing the talented. People who accelerate would have CHOSEN to accelerate, they are not made to accelerate automatically by the school. Those students just want to make life easier for themselves and like to spread out their time revealing and using those talents. A talented and accelerated Year 9/10 student would not waste his or her time just topping Year 9/10 work which is below their level of knowledge. They would want to make better use of their time, so why not accelerate and have a crack at the HSC? Also, NOT EVERYONE AT THE SCHOOL ACCELERATES!!!!
I also think you may be a little confused. The exams you see with all that "log of e and advanced used of trigonometric functions" would probably have been the ACCELERATED students' exams. The exams the school makes for those who start the Preliminary and HSC course to Year 11 and Year 12 like the rest of us, would do their normal grade level exams. Those exams are probably the ones that everyone else is referring to.
Also, I'm pretty sure students as NSBHS would have accelerated students as well. Many other schools accelerate their students as well, not just James Ruse.

"I know (vaguely) who play the role of an "asian gangster" outside of school."
I know that's a load of nonesense. At the most you have 2 people in the whole school who smoke, do you know what an Asian gangster is? They get stabbed when they step into the wrong suburb, there are no JR gangsters. If you are referring to a person with the initial MH then I know him, he is a lowlife who started to smoke and carry around a knife when he joined JR in Year 11. I talk to JR students and they talk about how he is scary - not really, he is a thick as a twig and the wind would blow him over.

That's why I actually bothered to take the caution with the use of the word "vaguely". I meant "asian gangster" as a figure of speech (hence indicated by the inverted commas), which obviously didn't work because it seems that you take it literally, so let's forget about that.

 

[Raginsheep]

Trebla, read what I've said before on this issue. It is not about whether Ruse or any other school should be allowed to accelerate anyone. Rather, it is about whether a student should be taught HSC level maths during a normal yr 9 maths lesson which means that if they are taught some topic, say calculus, then they will have yrs 9, 10, 11, 12 to master it for their HSC compared with another student who only has yrs 11 and 12.

Yes, NSB accelerates some students as do other schools but it is based on the normal time frame for the HSC (ie. 2 years, one for prelim and the other for the HSC) and we only do so in IPT and SDD.

Also the issue is more of whether Ruse is breaking any BOS rules rather. Personally, I would be quite happy for the jr years to be utilised more effectively.

 

[Trebla]

i remember in year 10 since we were maths 1, we started learning yr 11 3u maths after school certificate. also for science, the advanced classes would learn chemistry and physics for prelims.

I don't know about science, but there is actually a section in the Year 10 Maths syllabus containing "option topics". Year 10 Advanced Mathematics classes could learn the topics Circle Geometry, Polynomials, Functions and Logarithms. It was designed to help students when they do Maths Extension 1 in Year 11/12. It is not a requirement for the School Certificate so it is optional to learn one or more of these topics, depending on the teacher; so not all schools would have done them.
I remember learning Functions and Logarithms at the end of Term 3, long before our School Certificate! We were even tested on it in our yearlies! After the yearlies we began Polynomials and then after the School Certificate we were doing Circle Geometry. In fact, we finished everything in Year 10 Maths syllabus with like 4 weeks left to go until the end of term 4 last year; so our teachers made us do tesselations and matrices for the fun of it. They did not begin the preliminary course at all at the risk of being caught. Oddly enough for us, we don't revisit those topics (Circle Geometry, Polynomials, Functions and Logarithms) in the Extension 1 course until Year 12...
As for science, we just did some things for fun after the School Certificate. We only just touched on the basics of Moles and Momentum in a lesson or two (hardly in any depth obviously), since we were all bludging after the SC and didn't want to work. So the teachers tried to make our remaining weeks of Year 10 fun, but still valuable in learning by covering all these random topics lol.

 

[Trebla]

It is not about whether Ruse or any other school should be allowed to accelerate anyone. Rather, it is about whether a student should be taught HSC level maths during a normal yr 9 maths lesson which means that if they are taught some topic, say calculus, then they will have yrs 9, 10, 11, 12 to master it for their HSC compared with another student who only has yrs 11 and 12.

Well I didn't bother to read every previous post in this thread....
As far as I know from my sources, that does not occur in a "normal" class, but only in accelerated classes. Hinting at the Preliminary and HSC course is probably what the "normal" classes do. If they "hint" at Preliminary and HSC, then it should be fine. My school does that all the time and I'm sure other schools would too. I mean, our Maths class did a little bit of absolute value graphing in Year 10, a lot of the stuff we did in junior Science was revisited in the Preliminary and HSC course, we even did some texts in Year 8/9/10 English which were studied again in more detail in Year 11. In year 10 English we all did a topic called Consumerism with Bruce Dawe poetry which was a former Year 12 English module in the HSC which just got removed from the HSC recently.
So I reckon they probably just "hint" at the topics in a little more depth than we do because of their students' academic nature, but they would not directly learn the topics at that stage unless they are acclerated.

 

[critiek]

What's wrong with accelerating? Of course it is nurturing the talented. People who accelerate would have CHOSEN to accelerate, they are not made to accelerate automatically by the school.

[...]

That's why I actually bothered to take the caution with the use of the word "vaguely". I meant "asian gangster" as a figure of speech (hence indicated by the inverted commas), which obviously didn't work because it seems that you take it literally, so let's forget about that.

Stop trying to cover your mistakes, "figure of speech" ? So you're using "asian Gangster" as a metaphor? Don't make me laugh. What does vaguely knowing him/her have anything to do with the fact that you believe there is a gangster there? The only gang in JR is the barnyard club.

Well I didn't bother to read every previous post in this thread....

Bravo. Maybe if you did you would have an understanding of what the debate is over. Refer to above and you argument of "What's wrong with accelerating?" Nothing. Too bad it's not what we're arguing.

I was hoping to have a proper debate instead of having morons making arguing without even reading the thread

 

[Ragerunner]

Let me clarify something. There is a difference between accelerating and learning ahead. When you accelerate, you officially are doing the subject and allowed to sit for the HSC exam for it. Doing this requires permission from the board and your principal/teacher has a direct say in whether they think you are capable of it. As a result, you'd end up in the year 12 class for that particular subject. Many schools do this. Not just JR.

Learning ahead is unofficially learning the course ahead, without anything being tested on it. This can be done by any student without any permission needed.

 

[jynxe]

Ruse uses the Yellow Fitzpatrick book in Yr 10, but they don't finish the book.

 

[xx__savannah]

Stop trying to cover your mistakes, "figure of speech" ? So you're using "asian Gangster" as a metaphor? Don't make me laugh. What does vaguely knowing him/her have anything to do with the fact that you believe there is a gangster there? The only gang in JR is the barnyard club.

FFS mate, you're starting Year 12, and you didn't recognise what Trebla was saying? Haven't you been exposed to the real world enough to see that people try and be something they're not, as indicated by the inverted commas.


Apart from that, I don't care about what Ruse does, and apparently it seems like most share this opinion. Take it up with other people who can possibly do something abuot it, other than whinging, like what others have said before. Go have a "proper debate" with a member of staff at your school/Ruse.

 

[SoulSearcher]

I don't know about science, but there is actually a section in the Year 10 Maths syllabus containing "option topics". Year 10 Advanced Mathematics classes could learn the topics Circle Geometry, Polynomials, Functions and Logarithms. It was designed to help students when they do Maths Extension 1 in Year 11/12. It is not a requirement for the School Certificate so it is optional to learn one or more of these topics, depending on the teacher; so not all schools would have done them.

Yeah, my yr 10 advanced maths class is learning circle geometry right now, and our teacher plans to teach them the other 2 topics right after the School Certificate.

I really dont care what James Ruse does, so there

 

[Sparcod]

Im going to a selective school next year to start of yr 11 and the current yr 10's have already started on their yr 11/hsc topics, their yr 10 advanced maths class is already doing 3 unit maths.

This is because nearly everyone (>80%)in a selective school do 3u maths.

Some year 11 stuff is taught after the SC in year 10 otherwise there's nothing else to do besides watch videos or clean desks.

 

[Sparcod]

If anyone has seen a James Ruse maths test, they are doing 3 unit work in year 9/10 and their exams are more difficult than any other school urely because they have worked so far ahead.

Their teachers aren't doing the right thing by following the syllabus, unless this is an accelerated class. They can teach it but not test it.
I reckon that the SC is more like year 6 stuff. Pfft.

 

[neo o]

look, I go to Ruse, and I'm sick of people acting like the only way we do well is because we are a bunch of cheats/ liars/ its all some weird conspiracy. All the people in my grade work BLOODY HARD to get the marks we do. As for this whole accelerating thing, I don't know what you're talking about. I know the english teachers, in particular, were very careful not to teach anything remotely HSC-related until day one of term four in year 11. As for maths, how can you possibly NOT accelerate some things? like, "oh, trigonometry is in the HSC syllabus, so we can't learn it until year 11"? And i know I never learned anything four unit maths until i was in year 12. I think you all need to stop dissing ruse ppl

I really enjoyed reading some of the "well informed arguments" put forward in this thread. Obviously many posters have really done some "research" to "back-up" their arguments. This is almost like arguing with gordo.

No but seriously, I agree with xeia. Ruse only ever taught ahead in maths. To be honest, I'm sure that there are gifted and talented programs at other highschools that accelerate their students too. That aside, Ruse always taught maths at a level or two above of the current year which you were in. But, I don't even think that we learnt HSC material until term 4 of year 11, when we were supposed to. For the simple reason that we always worked out of standard signpost textbooks (and never used a year 12 book) until year 12.

 

[critiek]

I really enjoyed reading some of the "well informed arguments" put forward in this thread. Obviously many posters have really done some "research" to "back-up" their arguments. This is almost like arguing with gordo.

No but seriously, I agree with xeia. Ruse only ever taught ahead in maths. To be honest, I'm sure that there are gifted and talented programs at other highschools that accelerate their students too. That aside, Ruse always taught maths at a level or two above of the current year which you were in. But, I don't even think that we learnt HSC material until term 4 of year 11, when we were supposed to. For the simple reason that we always worked out of standard signpost textbooks (and never used a year 12 book) until year 12.

Apart from the fact that Xeia totally missed the whole point of this debate it wasn't even a well structed argument. Obviously she isn't aware of a phenomenon called 'paragraphs'.

To the other guy that said no one cared, if you actually read the thread you'll see that people do care. Or do you mean to say that it has just been 10 pages of "Don't care" replies.

Anyone else get the impression that all the JR people think that they're justified?

 

[critiek]

I refer to your request for information on Board of Studies policies
regarding the starting date of HSC courses. The rules and requirements for
the Higher School Certificate are contained in the Assessment Certification
and Examination (ACE) Manual, available on the Board's website at
www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/manuals/acemanual02.html As described in
Section 5.6 of the Manual, the Board has determined that the study of
Preliminary courses may not commence before Day 1, Term 1 of Year 11. The
Board has not determined a specific starting date for HSC courses - as
described in Section 11.10.1 of the ACE Manual, satisfactory completion of
the Preliminary course or its equivalent is a prerequisite for entry into
an HSC course. Section 11.10.1 also contains information on the
commencement of projects and the study of prescribed texts for the HSC.

The ACE Manual also includes information about the commencement of Stage 6
courses by accelerants - see section 5.5 and 11.7. Further information on
acceleration is contained in Guidelines for Accelerated Progression,
available on the Board's website at
www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/manuals/pdf_doc/accelerated_guide.pdf

Andrew Goodyer
Manager, Policy & Development
Office of the Board of Studies NSW

Note that the Preliminary prerequisite includes a set number of hours for each course, which JR could not have filled (and thus been eligible for going ahead and doing HSC courses as well as testing them with their pupils) unless their students attend school 7 days a week or have 12 hours of school per day...

If you haven't realised already I emailed Customer Liason's and got directed to the correct branch for a reply:

Good morning

Your email has been forwarded to the relevant Branch for reply.

Regards,

Clara

Customer Liaison Unit
Office of the Board of Studies
GPO Box 5300
Sydney NSW 2001
Ph: 02 9367 8178
Fax: 02 9262 6270
Email: CustomerLiaison@boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au
Web: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/
Shop: http://shop.bos.nsw.edu.au/
ABN 68 331 844 953

 

[helper]

Note that the Preliminary prerequisite includes a set number of hours for each course, which JR could not have filled (and thus been eligible for going ahead and doing HSC courses as well as testing them with their pupils) unless their students attend school 7 days a week or have 12 hours of school per day.

And if you read the whole manual, they are indicative hours not physical hours.

 

[Trebla]

Apart from the fact that Xeia totally missed the whole point of this debate it wasn't even a well structed argument. Obviously she isn't aware of a phenomenon called 'paragraphs'.

To the other guy that said no one cared, if you actually read the thread you'll see that people do care. Or do you mean to say that it has just been 10 pages of "Don't care" replies.

How ironic, now you have gone off topic....

FFS mate, you're starting Year 12, and you didn't recognise what Trebla was saying? Haven't you been exposed to the real world enough to see that people try and be something they're not, as indicated by the inverted commas.

Nicely worded there xx__savannah, exactly my point.
That also implies something about your english, critiek...... lol

Apparently your stubborn belief that people at James Ruse are cheaters has blinded you from realising the truth. There are people who are actually from the school who had posted. For example:

All the people in my grade work BLOODY HARD to get the marks we do. As for this whole accelerating thing, I don't know what you're talking about. I know the english teachers, in particular, were very careful not to teach anything remotely HSC-related until day one of term four in year 11. As for maths, how can you possibly NOT accelerate some things? like, "oh, trigonometry is in the HSC syllabus, so we can't learn it until year 11"? And i know I never learned anything four unit maths until i was in year 12.

- is of relevence to this thread and you blindly accept it as a post irrelevent to the topic, when it is staring at you in front of your face. The evidence is there and you just simply ignore it. Why not post up some James Ruse papers that you claim are little too ahead?
Also, if you are complaining that James Ruse are doing this, then why only James Ruse? MANY other schools do this as well and you are not making any complaints about them....
If you feel very strong and confident about your point and you think we are wrong then why not contact the Board of Studies or the Department of Education and Training to complain and make them care? (Which it appears you have already done) You could perhaps talk personally to the principal of the school or the teachers there. I strongly recommend it.

 

[neo o]

Apart from the fact that Xeia totally missed the whole point of this debate it wasn't even a well structed argument. Obviously she isn't aware of a phenomenon called 'paragraphs'.

To the other guy that said no one cared, if you actually read the thread you'll see that people do care. Or do you mean to say that it has just been 10 pages of "Don't care" replies.

Anyone else get the impression that all the JR people think that they're justified?

ZOMG, If she didn't have paragraphs in her electronic post - then she must be wrong!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

All the people in my grade work BLOODY HARD to get the marks we do.

People often say stuff like this without looking at the other side of the fence, are you sure that you're really working 'Bloody Hard'?
Research shows the people whom have it the hardest, try the hardest, are usually those who are recieving the lowest marks. I think i might still have it if someone wants, it put an interesting perspective on education. It is conventional wisdom that the students who recieve the highest marks are the hardest workers and are under the most stress.

 

[critiek]

Trebla you still have not read the entire thread.

That's why you have no idea what the argument is about. Working "damn hard" is not some kind of excuse, the fact is that JR gives their students extra time to do a set amount of work.

From someone who uses "...... lol" to express his feelings; to critisize my English is truly a sad day for me.

Unfortunately this thread has whiled down to just JR students defending their school's advantage... with little real discussion debating the actual point of whether JR should be allowed to start the curriculum early.

You ask for other schools? To my knowledge no other school is as bad as JR in this field of "acceleration". (Note the punctuation added)

The next person to use the "they can accelerate if they want to" or "they jst wrk hard" argument is a complete moron.

For the love of God read the entire thread before replying again (This means you Trebla).