Jobs you can get with commerce degree? (2 Viewers)

[b0b101]

investment banking

Fyi Don't need commerce for that Maths/Engineering/Law will do. You'll just end up covering what you need to know within 3-4 weeks of work.

 

[seremify007]

I'm feeling like being (a little) helpful.

https://www.business.unsw.edu.au/programs-courses/undergraduate/bachelor-commerce-bcom

(ps. noob tip - don't let the website name fool you, it applies to other similar Business and Commerce degrees too)

 

[D94]

Fyi Don't need commerce for that Maths/Engineering/Law will do. You'll just end up covering what you need to know within 3-4 weeks of work.

Clearly you've never worked at an investment bank before.

 

[asi9]

Fyi Don't need commerce for that Maths/Engineering/Law will do. You'll just end up covering what you need to know within 3-4 weeks of work.

pls let me know how maths, engineering and law get you into ib.

 

[b0b101]

pls let me know how maths, engineering and law get you into ib.

http://www.goldmansachs.com/careers/students-and-graduates/our-programs/asia-programs/index.html
Have a look for yourself, only the research positions require a degree in a "relevant" field (economics, accounting, finance)

Clearly you've never worked at an investment bank before.

No I haven't but I know people how are, and as far as they are concerned all they do is excel and powerpoint everyday for 12-15 hours a day basically 6 days a week (depends on client). At the end of the day graduates do not go into investment banking for the fun of it they go in for a decent salary first year out of uni, the learning experience and hence the exit opportunities.

 

[D94]

No I haven't but I know people how are, and as far as they are concerned all they do is excel and powerpoint everyday for 12-15 hours a day basically 6 days a week (depends on client). At the end of the day graduates do not go into investment banking for the fun of it they go in for a decent salary first year out of uni, the learning experience and hence the exit opportunities.

So let's give a grad or intern a simple task - find the net and gross total DV01 for supras taken down in the last year and graph based on typical bucketing of maturities.

Do you really think someone with only a law, engineering or maths background would have any idea what that even means?

Sure it might be excel for most of the day, but even before that excel, you need a thorough understanding of how the market works, what is being traded, the trades that the client wants traded, and an understanding of 3 years of a finance degree to be somewhat conversant in day to day work. This isn't simply attainable in 3-4 weeks, maybe 3-4 months just to be competitive against other grads competing for a full time position. Not every grad gets a full time job at that same bank.

 

[D94]

http://www.goldmansachs.com/careers/students-and-graduates/our-programs/asia-programs/index.html
Have a look for yourself, only the research positions require a degree in a "relevant" field (economics, accounting, finance)

What that doesn't tell you is the prerequisite understanding of finance needed alongside your unrelated degree. You'd be naive to think someone with little to no understanding of the market can simply achieve an internship or grad position based on good marks and EC. There are actual tests during the interview stage to demonstrate your knowledge - how might you possibly answer those questions with no understanding?

You would need to do a lot of research and learning prior to the interview stage, attempting to understand the intricacies of how the market works and also basic financial maths, e.g. pricing a bond or finding the IRR. You may not necessarily use this in every day work, but it's this basic understanding that allows you to gauge whether it is a good trade or even interpreting financial graphs.

 

[seremify007]

No I haven't but I know people how are, and as far as they are concerned all they do is excel and powerpoint everyday for 12-15 hours a day basically 6 days a week (depends on client). At the end of the day graduates do not go into investment banking for the fun of it they go in for a decent salary first year out of uni, the learning experience and hence the exit opportunities.

Now that I work in an investment bank that is actually a very fair summary of what my day to day role entails. And I'm not even client facing.

 

[D94]

Now that I work in an investment bank that is actually a very fair summary of what my day to day role entails. And I'm not even client facing.

The point of discussion was that had you not studied commerce, would you have been proficient as a graduate? Whatever your current day to day work entails is irrelevant, you need a certain background understanding in order to get to where you are today.

That summary could apply to any job, from any tertiary background, so it hardly summarises what you are doing. I could be doing excel all day, but the substance is pricing asset swaps. Do you think someone with no background would understand that, despite it all being excel?

 

[Examine]

What that doesn't tell you is the prerequisite understanding of finance needed alongside your unrelated degree. You'd be naive to think someone with little to no understanding of the market can simply achieve an internship or grad position based on good marks and EC. There are actual tests during the interview stage to demonstrate your knowledge - how might you possibly answer those questions with no understanding?

You would need to do a lot of research and learning prior to the interview stage, attempting to understand the intricacies of how the market works and also basic financial maths, e.g. pricing a bond or finding the IRR. You may not necessarily use this in every day work, but it's this basic understanding that allows you to gauge whether it is a good trade or even interpreting financial graphs.

Tbh I thought that b0b's point was that you can get into IB without a commerce degree, regardless of what you just said

 

[D94]

Tbh I thought that b0b's point was that you can get into IB without a commerce degree, regardless of what you just said

read again:

Fyi Don't need commerce for that Maths/Engineering/Law will do. You'll just end up covering what you need to know within 3-4 weeks of work.

I never said you couldn't (I'm working in an IB with an engineering background) but you can't just dumb down a commerce/finance degree and expect to be conversant in your product in 3-4 weeks. It takes a lot to be proficient in your product and the top banks expect this from the get go, so to simply say you don't need a commerce degree has a lot of stipulations which must be outlined otherwise it's just a hollow, baseless statement.

 

[Examine]

read again:


I never said you couldn't (I'm working in an IB with an engineering background) but you can't just dumb down a commerce/finance degree and expect to be conversant in your product in 3-4 weeks. It takes a lot to be proficient in your product and the top banks expect this from the get go, so to simply say you don't need a commerce degree has a lot of stipulations which must be outlined otherwise it's just a hollow, baseless statement.

Isn't it implied that if you're going to get through the recruitment process that you'd have some level of knowledge though? Thought the 3-4 weeks training was in relation to just transitioning what you know into doing your job.

 

[D94]

Isn't it implied that if you're going to get through the recruitment process that you'd have some level of knowledge though? Thought the 3-4 weeks training was in relation to just transitioning what you know into doing your job.

Then why even single out Maths/Engineering/Law in the first place? It should be more than clear that what you're saying isn't what he is saying.

 

[Examine]

Then why even single out Maths/Engineering/Law?

They're known to be fairly rigorous courses. If you're able to get a high wam in those respective courses then it says something about work ethic/etc

 

[RishBonjour99]

D94, are you in ibd/m&a or trading based role? I definitely agree with you that you definitely have to have a high level of proficiency in finance and just the markets in general to land a grad role etc. But clearly, as exemplified by you and many others comm degree isn't necessary. Although it is much more difficult to learn how to do a standard dcf online, it can be done - no where near the depth of an actual unit at uni though.

 

[enoilgam]

You can do a whole range of things with a Commerce degree, or most other degrees. I think people have a false idea that degree=specific job and that isn't exactly the case. Obviously, if you want to be a lawyer you need a law degree, but for the vast majority of professions you don't need a specific degree. To most employers these days, a degree is more an indicator of your soft skills and aptitude, as opposed to being a definitive indicator of hard skill. Experience is mostly what is used to gauge hard skill.

I've been involved in recruiting several high paying positions ($200k+ ) in quite complex fields and the degree is more or less a check-box item. I rarely see circumstances where HMs tell me "He has an Arts degree, I want a Commerce graduate". They are far more interested in experience - I've been in situations where applicants don't have degree qualifications and the HM will tell me "Who cares he has the experience Im looking for with this role".

 

[D94]

D94, are you in ibd/m&a or trading based role? I definitely agree with you that you definitely have to have a high level of proficiency in finance and just the markets in general to land a grad role etc. But clearly, as exemplified by you and many others comm degree isn't necessary. Although it is much more difficult to learn how to do a standard dcf online, it can be done - no where near the depth of an actual unit at uni though.

Trading

Anyway as before, I never said you required a commerce degree, but it's unintelligent to simply state that any rigorous degree will do, without adding what is academically required for landing an internship/grad/full time job, which is a strong finance background in this case. It's not that straightforward learning a completely different area of study that your peers have been learning for 3 years straight. You may have learned fluid flow or PDEs or torts in a semester, whereas your competition have spent a semester learning bonds, credit risk, emh etc. Let's actually try and inform people rather than making loose statements.

 

[Examine]

Trading

Anyway as before, I never said you required a commerce degree, but it's unintelligent to simply state that any rigorous degree will do, without adding what is academically required for landing an internship/grad/full time job, which is a strong finance background in this case. It's not that straightforward learning a completely different area of study that your peers have been learning for 3 years straight. You may have learned fluid flow or PDEs or torts in a semester, whereas your competition have spent a semester learning bonds, credit risk, emh etc. Let's actually try and inform people rather than making loose statements.

Think you must've misread what I said. I already stated that in terms of the Maths/Law/Engo thing, it's a matter of being able to get a high WAM in those respective degrees (let's say HD+) to prove that you're smart/have a strong work ethic.

Just browsing through the Goldman Sachs website b0b linked for the internship and grad program and:

"This program is open to final year undergraduate and graduate level students from any field of study, and is ideally suited to those with little or no work experience. While your discipline or major is not important, we’re looking for students with an outstanding record of academic achievement and an interest in the financial markets."

Also in terms of recruitment efforts from uni:

https://www.facebook.com/events/766807353418437/

Also UBS get 1st year uni students as cadets, and iirc their training program was 2 week across the board? (I think that's what it was, can't remember).

As Rish has said earlier, to land the grad role in IB you will need to have a high level of base knowledge about finance in general, but imo b0b's statement holds true.

 

[D94]

Your comment about a high wam is irrelevant to the point of discussion. We are talking about your level of understanding of finance, not your work ethic... and that response of mine wasn't to you - I didn't respond back to you before because it's irrelevant.

The reason why the little or no work experience is mentioned is because different banks have different ways of training interns and grads in their products. It's more important that you have a fresh mind and not have biases of one bank affecting your performance at another. It also states an interest in the financial markets, which is exactly what I have said.

If you read again through all my responses, I said you need a strong financial understanding, and at no point did I say b0b101's statement was untrue. But just because something is true doesn't mean you should loosely throw that statement around, without actually understanding/mentioning the implications.

 

[RealiseNothing]

If you are doing maths/engo etc you're better off doing prop trading than IB anyway.