John Howard misleads public? (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

didn't he actually promise there wouldn't be any dramatic increase in troops sent to Iraq? IMO 450 troops isn't that big an increase... so he wasn't lying outright.. although it was misleading.

Given that there are only 400 or so Australian troops in Iraq at the current time it will be quite a dramatic increase.

Edit: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...skforce-to-Iraq/2005/02/22/1108834772850.html

 

[Scanorama]

didn't he actually promise there wouldn't be any dramatic increase in troops sent to Iraq? IMO 450 troops isn't that big an increase... so he wasn't lying outright.. although it was misleading.

johnny has a track record of being misleading - like with the GST

Maybe his definition of dramatic is different to everyone else, otherwise 112.5% increase in the number of troops is very very dramatic, more than double of the number.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

johnny has a track record of being misleading - like with the GST

Howard was not deceptive about the GST

 

[Not-That-Bright]

He used the GST as an election promise... sure he did a few years before say "no gst", but it's not like he told people before he put in the gst he wouldn't..

 

[Korn]

People are generally are very wary of being proud of war. The fact that it had to come to war in such an advance modern era is something to be saddened by.

However the troops are necessary.




That kind of stereotyping should be above you.

Are you a lazy bum? Since you have not singed up? You mean anyone who doesnt think this is a good idea is a lazy bum?

Come on

i can proudly say, im pro-war

 

[frog12986]

All these arguements are such a waste of time. Whats done is done, and no left wing bleeding heart can change that...

- fact: in the 1998 election, it was stated that if elected, the coalition would introduce the GST. Hence the people of Australia were obviously unperturbed by this particular fact and were not deceived by the government in anyway in relation to the GST. He may have changed his mind on the issue, however this is merely a sign of flexibility on various issues and if it were as treacherous as people such as Asquinthian make out, the people of our country would have voted him against him in that election. So all those left wing grudge holders, who are still using that argument today... build a nice concrete bridge..and get over it!

- fact: most soldiers join the army with the purpose and intent of eventually applying the skills learnt in training in military/wartime situations. It is primarily the lefties and media who are the people that are so outraged by the fact that as part of the coalition in Iraq we are supporting our fellow allies in rebuilding and enhancing the depleted infrastructure of this country.

Because quite frankly, we have an obligation to see through and assist the redevelopment of Iraq in every way we possibly can. The last thing our world needs in the future, is an Iraq that is resentful for the fact that we did not assist in facilitating the redevelopment of a country which has been in a state of immense destitution for a long period of time.
So until the occupation of Iraq has yielded a positive outcome for the people of this country, our commitment should remain at its fullest and if necessary further support should even be deployed. we should not reduce our commitment until the job is done.
And in reply to those who say Howard went back on his word, I merely say that obviously you are unable to grasp the concept of firstly supporting your allies and commitment, and secondly unable to understand the fact that when certain circumstances change, strategies and previous conceptions can also alter.... After all different times call for different measures....

N.B if this is an act of ultra conservativism then obviously the left of politics in Australia must be more conservative than our supposed conservative government..

 

[frog12986]

Asquinthian, rebuilding a nation which has been under the oppression of a savage regime for the last 50 years. No WMDS were discovered and I concede that fact, however I dont see why alleviating the Iraqi's from an oppressive regime is such an awful thing to do. I see no point now in dwelling on the fact that the premise for war changed. The past cannot be changed, and now that we are there we have a commitment to ensure that we see through our redefined purpose in occupying Iraq.

Asquinthian you are one of these typical Arts/Law studnets who believes they can change the world for the better themselves. However, what do you actually do on a personal level to help those in need. In the future you will become a typical, snooty, upper class lawyer who diverts minimal earnings to the causes that they supposedly support with 'passion'.

Please supply the list of all the great feats you have achieved in making this world a better place and helping those in need. Or are you a typical backseat hypocrite, who merely provides commentary and criticism of others plans however has no real strategies or realistic ideas of their own...

 

[Korn]

Maybe you can join up to the army.

There is nothing worse than a person who says they are pro war but won't fight and doesn't what to have anything to do with the war.

What and u hate the military, do you, hu.

 

[Korn]

Maybe you can join up to the army.

There is nothing worse than a person who says they are pro war but won't fight and doesn't what to have anything to do with the war.

Because the career i have chosen is only supported by the Army Reserves

 

[Not-That-Bright]

True, I hope that the first scenario (US sets up iraq as an open market democracy with a strong economy, social justice, welfare etc...) is the one which we see.

I agree with you on africa also, but i feel the situation in iraq was more about.. bringing about change which in the long term will assist in stabalising the middle east and hopefully the world.

Africa however should be the focus of most of the worlds attention once the middle east gets stable (well as stable as that part of the world ever could be).

It's almost as if we're all guilty of a type of racism, 4000 americans die 9/11, the world weeps. 300,000 Asians die in the Tsunami, the world weeps. Millions of africans die from war, disease, hunger and alot of basic needs... the world turns a blind eye and every now and then brings it up.

 

[frog12986]

You didnt supply an answer...obviously your social contributions are minimal...

Your reply however does indicate that you dont have an answer and that you are one of the going list of hypocritical civil libetarians of the future. Insulting my intellect does not bother me coming from someone such as yourself, because any opinions you do have I pay minimal attention to. Just because you are doing law does not imply that you are intellectual... if anything it proves the opposite....

Get on your high horse and ride all the way back to the Middle East then we'll see what your opinion of the area is like... spend a week or two in Syria, maybe a couple in Iran then finish your tour off in Saudi. Indulge yourself in the hospitatlity of the Arabic people and their acceptance of your way of life. Maybe you'll be able to revolutionise the babaric governments in that part of the world... or then again maybe you won't....

BTW your part of a vocal minority dont forget that fact... election 2004 soundly expressed that..

I care not to make any form of exchange with you if you do turn to irrelavent and childish insults/swearing....

 

[Korn]

No one here was using it as an argument. Read above.

We all know he said never ever but that he made himself clear later on.



Whats your point?

Rebuilding a nation that was bombed to pieces by the allied forces.

What was the purpose of the war in Iraq? Do you remember? Do you know?



You obviosly don't understand what conservatism is.

Most people feel that we should do what is necessary to see it out. War is not a good thing. It is something that should be the ultimate last resort. This does not mean she should not commit troops.

War should not be seen as a positive. But rather a failure to resolve matters without loss of human life.


You also seem not to understand what the left is...or what a bleeding heart is.

Without bleeding heart your uni would not exist.

The purpose of the Iraq war was to get rid of Saddam, who had during his reign killed hundreds of thousands of ppl, especially the Kurds. It was a just an necessary war.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think you guys are listening to Asquithian... i'm pretty sure he has said that the outcome of the war will be good. His major gripe is with what he see's as the deciet of the Bush administration, and that other countries deserved to be 'liberated' more.

 

[Korn]

Seems rather idealised. I would think that rape still occurs.

Anyways...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/casualties/facesofthefallen.htm

1480 is the US toll. Anyone can look at the faces of the fallen who were deployed to Iraq to pre emptively defend the US against Weapons of Mass Destruction (which um didnt exist).

Ignorant, the US gave them the weapons in the 80s so America knew they had them, its just that Saddam sold them off before they were found, in fact Iraq had in the past admitted to having chemical and biological weapons, in fact Iraq used sarin gas (chemical weapon) on the Kurds.

 

[Korn]

Yes. Just like many many many other nations in the world. The US is pushing US style democracy by Gunpoint.

There are a number of nations that need MORE liberating than Iraq.





You are a fuckwit etc.

Thankyou for stereotyping Lawyers. It just illustrates your sparkling intellect. I could go along and start stereotyping.

1. UWS

2. Police corruption



If you bothered to read anything other than your own devine words you would know what I'm talking about.

So I guess we should never question or criticise anything? What are you a communist?

What are u going on about UWS and police corruption

 

[Not-That-Bright]

As much as I normally disagree with you I think you've got it spot on. In the long term Iraq will turn out better (however there's so many other things we could of done for the same cost, i'm not sure if iraq was the best pick tho it does have alot of oil so stability there would help the world).
At the moment it's really bad, it's a huge failure of the US government and the Iraqi's and the US soldiers are currently paying the price.

 

[Korn]

The US will LIFT Iraq out into the market. It will not provide aid because aid is not what Iraq needs. It will indsutrialise and open up its markets.

In the long term Iraq will be better of.

Most peoples gripe focuses on the deceitful nature of the way the US admin went about it and its often glorifying war rehtoric.

Otherwise people don't have much of a gripe about the War. Other than the fear that it will be neverending and that it wasn't necessary.

This is the US and its one step to save the world. Itwas just that other nations were in greater need of liberating than Iraq. There are nations in Africa that are in a much worse state that iraq ever was.

Which nations in Africa have chemical weapons that could be sold to Terrorists.

 

[Korn]

Ok to save yourself from your own lack of knowledge

1. The purpose of the war in iraq was WMD. It was a pre emptive use of force which Colin Powll sold to the UN. This was the basis for the war.

2. There were no WND's....FUCK etc etc. They just invaded a nation in pre emptive self defence and there was nothing there that they would have defended themselves against.

3. They go ahead anyway and claim the operation was to overthrow the dictator.

Pluses

- No dictator

- Liberation - ie democratic elections

- Oil and chance for UN coporations to make some money. AUS included.

Minuses

- Civil War and civil unrest

- Country lacking infrustructure and in total chaos

- 1480 dead Americans (and counting)

- Who knows how many Iraq's

Do believe that the US told everyone the truth about why they went in at the time the must of thought it was the best story to get the majority of supporters

 

[Korn]

You missed the point.

They don't have weapons of mass destruction. Therefore there is no ground that you invade them first pre emptively in self defense. Because there they have nothing that you have to defend yourself from.

They MAY have had weapons beforehand. But they didnt. So why are you pre emptively defending yourself?

Do some research about the gasing of the Kurds before u say something stupid like Iraq had no wmds, granted they couldnt use them against the US homeland, but could sell them to terrorists and/or sell info on how to make them.

 

[Korn]

Jeesus. READ

Iraq has No WMD's. 10 years ago they did. Now they don't. Do you understand? Even the US adminstration disagrees with you.

Evidence, when did the US administration deny wmds