L r Kill Bill - Conditionally Reopened (2 Viewers)

[karnevil]

L r

Saw it today, best movie I've seen in a long time. If you like your black comedies and you like Quentin Tarantino's style, then this is a must-see. Even if you don't like his movies, the amount of Japanese dialogue makes it worth the admission price, even if you only go for the purpose of getting re-acquainted with hearing Japanese dialogue. I'd say without much doubt that the Japanese to english dialogue ratio in this movie would be about 75:25 - it's great, although Uma Thurman's pronounciation leaves something to be desired here and there.

That's my .02, go see it guys and gals!

 

[yenta]

I saw a few days ago, but what's with all the killing people. It was pretty good though, and yeah the Japanese dialogue was good, but the way the blood spurted out of everyone was just like...wtf. Never seen a Tarantino movie before so it was pretty strange to me.

Uma Thurman's pronounciation was prob sposed to be inaccurate...she's not native ... but she did kno quite a bit of Jap

 

[Takuya]

It's easy to say some bullshit "biru o korossay" or thing.

Stupid movie. Chop suey crap. I could make a whole website on the things wrong with the movie culture wise and language wise but I'm just going to ignore that, along with some of large full-wall posters of the movie in Japan which have blatant spelling errors.

KEERU BEERU

 

[karnevil]

Originally posted by Takuya
It's easy to say some bullshit "biru o korossay" or thing.

Stupid movie. Chop suey crap. I could make a whole website on the things wrong with the movie culture wise and language wise but I'm just going to ignore that, along with some of large full-wall posters of the movie in Japan which have blatant spelling errors.

Yes talk is easy, isn't it Takuya. You seem to do a lot of it. I could write a paragraph on how poor your grasp of english was in your post (more like engrish), but "I'm just going to ignore that"

 

[Lexicographer]

Please don't start another flame war in here, because I would really like to see more commentary on this film before I go see it myself.

Takuya, remember that this movie was produced by a foreigner (Tarantino) for viewing by foreigners (us). It's not meant to be a completely accurate depiction of Japan, just enough to convince us for the purposes of plot that it is indeed Japan.

And Karnevil, please try not to use "Engrish". I know we all say it, even I do, but since both Takuya and J-belle now frequent the forum it's probably best to respect them and not use this word, as they find it offensive. They don't call us gaijin, we don't mock their English. Quid Pro Quo.

 

[yenta]

Looking at your sig, avatar and location Takuya, you seem like a person filled with anger. =S

 

[karnevil]

They don't call us gaijin

we're not in Japan here

I would really like to see more commentary on this film

Go see it Lexi trust me you'll appreciate it even if only for the chance to hear some fresh Japanese dialogue on the big screen, and some shiny swords getting thrown around

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by Lexicographer
Quid Pro Quo.

Yes. Very.

The movie was OK but very annoying in parts (i.e. color suddenly disappear? Arthouse movie? Sure!). I suspect the sequel will be less chop suey and I foresee a Western (as in Cowboy style)... ? Does anyone know what it will be?

LOL Uma Tharman's Japanese meant to be inaccurate? Despite her obviously sarcastic "Only studied Japanese for 1 day" (in that she comes back speaking), her dialogue and Oren Ishii (hahaha)'s dialogue was quite easy.

NIHONTETSU GA HITUYOU NA
KIRITAI NEZUMI GA IRU KARA

It's funny how she talks later in the movie, yet she can't even pronounce 'konnichiha'. But anyway, nice try. And as for that sushi bar, who in their right mind would eat at a place which has a scroll like that hung above the bar!

My girlfriend even told me that when Oren said 'Ima kara eigo de hanashimasu' (i.e. that's all the Japanese I can remember), she was speaking faster than the translation. I was trying to listen to the Japanese to see if that Sophy (or Sophie??) was genuine, but sadly to say, may not have been.

Other comments on the movie... Since I saw Chiakik at the Tokyo premiere of BR (said hello to me, too!), her nose has grown much bigger. And that's the first time I've ever heard a girl talk so rudely, ever. Also, if anyone's ever been to Tokyo, you'll know that the view of the city looks more like the view of Los Angeles or San Diego than anything else. Otherwise I think we may have been conned into thinking it was shot in Japan; the motor bike raiding Bride may have well been a stand-in.

by the way that sig pic is the cover of my band's new CD which we will record through studio in December - January.

Originally posted by karnevil
we're not in Japan here

Yawn. I suppose it's a good thing that foreigners don't understand "Gaijin".

The only thing I found amusing (apart from the mice cutting) was the pun in the title of the movie, but I'm sure that was unintended.

Originally posted by karnevil
Yes talk is easy, isn't it Takuya. You seem to do a lot of it. I could write a paragraph on how poor your grasp of english was in your post (more like engrish), but "I'm just going to ignore that"

Ok I just read this, so I'm just going to say -> With someone who makes a mistake as simple as 'issho kenmei', you're in no position to challenge my grasp of language at all.

 

[jogloran]

Originally posted by Takuya
Yawn. I suppose it's a good thing that foreigners don't understand "Gaijin".

"Worthless ignorant imperialist scum", right?

By the way, this movie was *written to be B*, if you know what I mean. As an example, continuity errors everywhere are not a sign of sloppy directing, rather a homage/parody of the genres involved. This may/may not include the gasp! non-native speaker dialogue.

 

[karnevil]

Originally posted by Takuya
Ok I just read this, so I'm just going to say -> With someone who makes a mistake as simple as 'issho kenmei', you're in no position to challenge my grasp of language at all.

considering ive spent about only 6years studying 'textbook japanese' as you yourself put it, and you've lived here since year5, I doubt that me making japanese mistakes is as significant as you making english mistakes when you've lived in an english speaking country for years.

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by karnevil
considering ive spent about only 6years studying 'textbook japanese' as you yourself put it, and you've lived here since year5, I doubt that me making japanese mistakes is as significant as you making english mistakes when you've lived in an english speaking country for years.

I haven't been here since Year 5.

Maybe I should scour these forums for every little piece of Japanese that you've attempted and dissect every word.

 

[Lexicographer]

What the hell is going on in here? Quadruple posting? Really, that's intolerable. Takuya, it is (as Karnevil said) totally unfair to mock us for errors in our Japanese, even if it is something which you feel should be obvious to beginners. As subjects of the Board of Studies we are not given the choice of what is relevant to our learning, and the intricate linguistic nuances of Japanese are simply too difficult for the majority of current high school students.

Karnevil, "Gaijin" has never simply meant "foreigner" but has rather etched itself into the Japanese mentality as a non-Japanese. Of course, many more militant people see it in the wat Jogloran put it. Though we often joke about the white girl at Kinokuniya, the Japanese staff (well, their parents) would still consider her to be gaijin, despite her being local to Australia.

Please, enough fighting. It's distracting!

 

[Takuya]

This is shit. This isn't fun any more. There are a certain group of arrogant idiots in this forum who not only try and make it obvious that their English is better then mine, but are bordering on suggesting that they know Japan better than I do.

I present honest examples of Japanese culture (to which Lexicographer has always acknowledged), however such idiots just defiantly reject them thinking that I'm talking out of my arse. Well guess what shitheads, that's Japan, so if you don't like it, why keep studying Japanese? You're foreigners, your Japanese is at a very basic level, so get real. People aren't going to come up to you and start a conversation in Japan because you 'look like a sophisticated Japanese student'. People don't like me here because I've told them the bitter truth about Japanese culture. You like to refer to the western imperialists as if it's a phrase I myself have coined, however if you could be a Japanese person for a day you'd see that this is more relevant to Japanese society than you'd have ever imagined (and yes, even those seemingly naive, easy little air-headed Japanese schoolgirls think that way). It's better that you find out now from me, before you go off trying to start your lifestyle in Japan. You can study Japanese for 10s of years until you can speak like a native, but guess what - You'll never be Japanese and you'll eventually get sick of being treated like a foreigner and you'll leave. But then how come all the Asian people in Australia don't feel that way?! Because Japan's society is no where near as multicultural as that of Australia's.

I worked my arse off to learn English (after previously staying 1.5 years in Australia after Grade 5) so I could spend Forms 4-6 at an Australian High School whilst my parents worked. I always apologise to people for having such poor, disjointed English and people often laugh at me for speaking like the fucking Jap I am, but I think I'm doing all right compared to a lot of other Japanese people.

By the way, I think I have some right to the words 'fucking imperialist scum', if not for myself, but for my grandparents.

 

[ChaoS-GoD]

ooh! Takuya is angry again... its funny reading these stuff, but i eventually cant help myself but get involved (and prob my ass whooped), but here i go...

though not a japanese, i share similar (it'd b total bs if i said 'same') experiences as i am also an asian (chinese). words such as "engrish" applies not only to the improper english spoken by japanese people as it is usually referred to, but basically to all asians speaking english. i myself have been in this country since yr3, and still on occasions cant help myself but speak crap english or sound like a fob. but words such as those when used lightly and inpersonally between friends, it can sometimes get a laugh or two. but the problem arises when they become so lightly used that they become mainstream in a society and those using it think it becomes appropriate to freely throw around these words. if you trace back to the origin of the words that so many of us freely use, such as 'jap', you will find that they have just as a negative impact towards japanese as the word 'gaijin' describes foreigners, especially those of european descent (as Takuya pointed out). and also please take the advice as said by Lexi "since both Takuya and J-belle now frequent the forum it's probably best to respect them and not use this word, as they find it offensive.", especially seeing Takuya's explosive temper (please dont kill me!).

"By the way, I think I have some right to the words 'fucking imperialist scum', if not for myself, but for my grandparents." i totally agree with Takuya here, even though we (china) never got as hard of a kick as japan did, many of us are still secretly dirty towards european people (especially americans and british). but really, much the same can be said about the japanese. if you knew the destruction they brought to china in WW2, right during a civil revolution and famine, we could also have the right to use the words 'fucking dirty japs'. but hey, look at me now, im totally emersing myself in the richness of japanese culture, whether they are traditional or modern or western influenced, and im thankful of that! so as my ex-japanese teachers said, its the business of our grandparents and great-grandparents. its not happening right now, so we shouldnt discriminate against each other by the events many generations ago. because the results of these can be seen in in palestine/israel, and the former yugoslavia, and no one wants that to happen in japan, australia, china, us, or anywhere. so please stop criticising each other and be somewhat glad that we are able to live here without having to kill each other.

so yeh, its all fun and games people and i love reading it, but dont let it go out of hand. if Takuya or anyone gets angry, let it go, dont try to put more fuel into the fire (as i have learnt the hard way on many occasions).

 

[Lexicographer]

Thank you for pointing out the shining path! We don't need to think bitterly on behalf of our ancestors, because our feuds have been resolved. Japan and America are now the strongest allies in the world (economically) and only the older generations feel true resentment (discounting the closed-minded or uneducated). We should let go of past conflicts and trespasses to embrace the here and now. I doubt Japan is going to take this advice anytime soon, but what kind of country would it be if they listened to a little language student on an internet forum.

No more fighting.

 

[karnevil]

I think it's ironic that Takuya says he's presenting the 'truth' about Japan when he's one insignificant bitter little ex-pat living in Australia. The ratio of the number of japanese people i've met who are positive about Austrlians learning the language and having aspirations of living/working in Japan, compared to the number of Japanese/non-Japanese people who try and tell me to give up Japanese now, because I'm always going to be treated like an outsider/foreigner, is so ridiculously high that I'm not even going to say it. In fact Takuya, you're the only person so far who I've met on the negative. You give Japan a bad name, and I doubt the majority of the 120+ million other Japanese people share your opinion.

But, like you said, Australia is a very multicultural society. So count yourself lucky that this country has opened its arms to you and your family, and show some fucking reciprocation of hospitality - try not to be the narcissistic moron that you are when you tell us to give up on our hopes and dreams.

Sorry Lex, had to be said.

 

[Lexicographer]

:mad1:

ENOUGH!

You'd better not continue this in another thread.

Closed.

Edit: I'm reopening this thread on the condition that the topic returns to Kill Bill, or other related material. I am deleting anything offensive in the preceding posts, and advise you not to recast it or I will be forced to alert the admins. Please, we have a much higher standing than most of the other fora and such base and childish banter is simply unacceptable. I will not hesitate to request that troublesome members be temporarily banned to keep the peace, so please play nice.

Now, back to Kill Bill. I don't know much about Tarantino, having seen none of his films, so could someone please tell me more about this director? He seems to be very popular for his "style" of absurdist violence. I was watching a news feature regarding this particular film when the woman questioned him about the frequent shifts to Black and White during scenes of excessive bloodshed. He said he did this to alleviate the "disgust" reaction that many people undergo in response to gore. According to Tarantino people don't have a problem with blood but the colour red. Should he remove the red (ie switch to B+W) people still see the blood, and know it's blood, but don't become so repulsed. Interesting theory, since it seems to work.

 

[Newbie]

chaos-god, good avatar!

karnevil > takuya

i will listen to you lex ^_______^

 

[j-belle]

Originally posted by karnevil
Even if you don't like his movies, the amount of Japanese dialogue makes it worth the admission price, even if you only go for the purpose of getting re-acquainted with hearing Japanese dialogue.

Watching SBS is free, and there are Japanese movies all the time -there was even one on Friday night

Originally posted by Takuya
by the way that sig pic is the cover of my band's new CD which we will record through studio in December - January.

Cool. Are your bandmates American? I noticed the (American) explicit sticker on the cover..

Originally posted by Takuya
You like to refer to the western imperialists as if it's a phrase I myself have coined, however if you could be a Japanese person for a day you'd see that this is more relevant to Japanese society than you'd have ever imagined (and yes, even those seemingly naive, easy little air-headed Japanese schoolgirls think that way).

I love how you think the views you express represent the whole of the Japanese people -they often don't. I've been a 'Japanese person' longer than you have, and have lived in Japan longer than you have. I don't know what has happened to you individually, but speaking on behalf of myself and the people I know in and from Japan, they don't hold these underlying thoughts against westerners that you speak of.

Maybe our grandparents did or still do hold these views, but if someone from our generation held these views, as lexi said, they are probably either close-minded or uneducated. And about those 'easy airhead Japanese girls' you refer to - why would they care about those views you raised? So many of them are oblivious to things going on within Japan let alone things that have happened in the past.
Japan is in many ways an inclusive culture, everything is 'inside' it - (most) people don't waste their time worrying about past injustices. If this generation of Japanese did hold these views (as you think they do), they would reject western culture and people instead of embracing it and them, respectively. Further, why would so many Japanese come to Australia and make friends with Australians, if Australians were really were just western imperialist scum? Why would so many Japanese people be keen to host westerners in exchange programs if they were 'imperialist scum'?

Originally posted by Takuya
By the way, I think I have some right to the words 'fucking imperialist scum', if not for myself, but for my grandparents.

No, I don't think you have that right. Your grandparents themselves (and mine) may, but you yourself, do not - unless you think it's necessary to represent your grandparents by bringing horrible events from the past into the present and future. In the future are you planning on telling your children about this as well, hoping to continue this cycle of beliefs/views that you've acquired? (And I say acquired in the sense that you seem to have them, but I don't know any other Japanese people around our age that do).

Originally posted by Takuya
Japan's society is no where near as multicultural as that of Australia's.

This I agree with completely. But everyone here probably knew it anyway.

Originally posted by ChaoS-GoD
but hey, look at me now, im totally emersing myself in the richness of japanese culture, whether they are traditional or modern or western influenced, and im thankful of that!

I've been so impressed ever since I came to Australia in the way that several students I've spoken with have an interest in Japanese culture - it's great

Originally posted by ChaoS-GoD
so as my ex-japanese teachers said, its the business of our grandparents and great-grandparents. its not happening right now, so we shouldnt discriminate against each other by the events many generations ago.

I guess that's what I've been trying to say. We had no choice in the family, nationality or country we were born in or into. To impose hateful views held in the past that are irrelevant to any current situation, on current generations, is unjust.

Originally posted by Lexicographer
Please, we have a much higher standing than most of the other fora and such base and childish banter is simply unacceptable.

Really? I'd say there's more threads locked here per page (1), than any other forum.. but I still like it here. Everyone who posts has to be ready for a flame war though haha

Originally posted by Lexicographer
He said he did this to alleviate the "disgust" reaction that many people undergo in response to gore. According to Tarantino people don't have a problem with blood but the colour red. Should he remove the red (ie switch to B+W) people still see the blood, and know it's blood, but don't become so repulsed. Interesting theory, since it seems to work.

Yes, it is an interesting theory, but an unsubstantiated one. I don't think the problem is just with the colour red -I think it often has to do with the actual viewer being made uncomfortable by excessive or gratuitous violence, or perhaps the actual slashes etc that would bring the blood.

When you think about it, if the scene was showed instead in one colour (say, blue), then wouldn't Tarantino get the same effect? I don't think it can just be attributed to B+W, because perhaps when B+W is used it causes people to revert back to what they normally assume will be an 'olden day scene' (indicated by the B+W), bringing the audience into their comfort zone and then introducing violence that would hence seem less realistic (lack of colour) or brutal.

btw lexi, when are you opening the photo thread? I think the server is OK now..

 

[karnevil]

Thanks for clearing that up J-belle nice to hear a rational japanese point of view in here.