Law classes too big at USyd (1 Viewer)

[Frigid]

It's unjust, m'lud! Law classes too big

SYDNEY University's prestigious Sydney Law School has introduced staff changes that students fear will cause class sizes to increase dramatically.

The school's dean of law says he has had to make changes due to an inability to find quality staff, funding issues and a lack of classroom space. But he insists the impact will not be significant.

Students worry the changes will make it harder to learn and say they are indicative of the lack of funding in higher education.

"This really says something about the situation universities are facing," Sydney University's Student Representative Council president Angus McFarland, a law student, said.

"This is one of the most prestigious and richest faculties at the university. If the funding crisis has hit the law faculty at Sydney University, we are in a dire situation. We are in trouble."

The faculty, which requires a university admission index of 99.55 for its undergraduate combined law course, has many famous graduates including Sir William Deane and Geoffrey Robertson. Prime Minister John Howard, whose changes to tertiary funding have caused many universities to struggle financially, is another.

With the changes, seminar numbers are likely to rise from the current size of about 55 students in each class to up to 75 in some subjects, university documents obtained by The Sun-Herald show. The papers state that the original class size goals had been closer to 40 students. ...

i don't think the students of Sydney University have much to complain - the situation is the same elsewhere.

even though UNSW 'pioneered' small-group teaching, the fact that the new building has classrooms with 42-seating capacity and harvard-style lecture halls fit for 90 means we're all facing the same 'crisis'.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I think our core courses are still reasonable in size? Usually 30-35 per class, no more than 40. It's understandable that our elective subjects are held with more people and in the Harvard lecture theatres -- there are not enough students in many electives to justify two streams of classes.

I thought USyd had followed suit in our small group teaching structure, but sadly for them it looks like the original edge in that regard will come back to us.

 

[MaryJane]

I couldn't believe this when I read it this morning: 55 students in a class? We dont have more than 30 students in a tutorial, which I really like, because you get to know the people in your class, and it makes for more interesting debates in my opinion. Our law faculty just makes more classes available so we dont have students cramped into a room, and I know that USYD have more money at their disposal than MQ. It seems they are just trying to pump them in and get them out quick at less cost to the faculty.

 

[wheredanton]

I couldn't believe this when I read it this morning: 55 students in a class? We dont have more than 30 students in a tutorial, which I really like, because you get to know the people in your class, and it makes for more interesting debates in my opinion. Our law faculty just makes more classes available so we dont have students cramped into a room, and I know that USYD have more money at their disposal than MQ. It seems they are just trying to pump them in and get them out quick at less cost to the faculty.

How many lectures and how many tutorials a week per subject at mq law?

 

[MaryJane]

Obviously the lectures are set; usually one two-hour, or sometimes one two-hour and one one-hour. There are generally about 2 tutorials a day (over the 5 day week) which are run for the core units. In elective units, they tend to squish them into 3 days of the week, so there might be two each day (because of a smaller enrolment sizes). Some electives forego the lecture because they are smaller, and hold two two-hour tutorials instead.

Is this odd? It is how all the units are run at MQ across all faculties.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

All our law classes are 2-hour tutorials (we don't have 'lectures') -- if USyd's is the same system then it would be understandable.

 

[_dhj_]

I'm not sure how it is elsewhere but for Contracts we have a large group lecture/small group tutorial system.

 

[melsc]

At UWS we had two 2 hr 'seminars' which were really just a way to justify having 50+ people in a tute, my intro to law class had 70 people in it!

At Macquarie now we have about 30 or less in a tute and one lecture and tute per week.

I prefer the smaller classes, its harder to discuss things with more people

 

[Rorix]

moonlight, usyd generally has 2x two hour tutes/seminars (choose your terminology) per week..

re: Angus' statement, I don't think that it is an issue of a lack of funding [but a good opportunity for Angus to complain about the gov't ]. I know USYD is having trouble attracting quality staff for commercially orientated law subjects..

 

[hYperTrOphY]

Regardless of whether you have a lec + tute or seminar system, every uni seems to have 2 classes per week for law subjects. At your uni do you learn about 1 or 2 topics per week though?

At UWS, we have two 2hr seminars, each focused on a different topic. However in my Social Science subjects, both the lec and tute are about the same topic. Thus, law requires, in effect, twice as much work.

 

[melsc]

Generally two topics per week sometimes more or less depening on the size of the topic, this week we had construction and implied terms.

 

[c_james]

I'm not sure how it is elsewhere but for Contracts we have a large group lecture/small group tutorial system.

Indeed, tutorial sizes for Contracts are more than reasonable - about 15-20 in my class.

Processes of Justice is another matter - about 40 students per class there. And I think that's a sign of things to come.

 

[_dhj_]

Indeed, tutorial sizes for Contracts are more than reasonable - about 15-20 in my class.

Processes of Justice is another matter - about 40 students per class there. And I think that's a sign of things to come.

It's hard to imagine having 70 in our class though... you can probably only fit that many in lecture theatres at law school (or any other lecture facility for that matter). I think the Contracts format, on the other hand, works fairly well.