Salut tout le monde.
For a while I've been really interested in this aspect of the French language, also in all other languages like German, and others that have the cultural dilemma that is presented in the choice with the familiar 'you' form versus the formal 'vous'. I've noticed also in some conversations when we talk in French to each other in the forum that a lot of us tend to address people with 'vous', even though we are of the same generation, even though we don't know each other in real life (in the majority of cases!). In predominantly-French forums elsewhere, I've seen that the tendancy is, surprisingly, to use 'tu' in addressing others, even from the first post usually it is 'tu'. Perhaps because the internet takes away the physical presence of this social stigma? But why has it remained in French BOSland? Have we developed the social awareness attached to the tutoiement vs. vousvoiement? Do we tend to be more comfortable with 'vous'?
Though the predominance of 'tu' seems to be attached more readily in Québécois forums, like www.cowboysfringants.com/forum, and it's sort of a generational blur between more older users and younger users on the french.about.com "A la française" forum. From the latter I come to read a thread that inspired the one you are reading now, which I found rather interesting. ---> http://forums.about.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ab-french&msg=3314.1 If it can't be read, go to http://french.about.com, follow the links to the Forum, enter the "A la française" one, then do a search for thread number 3314.
Also, with the people we talk to in our primary place of talking French at the moment, our classes, who do we address as what? Do we address our teachers as 'vous', and do they reciprocate with 'vous' as well? Do we call them 'vous', but they 'tutoie' us? Or do both parties 'se tutoient'? I find it fascinating. It's such a subtle, but clear indicator of social standing/acceptance. I remember on a trip to the Alliance, (on their open evening), I was talking to a native Franco woman, who was older than me. Now apparently I look much older than I actually am, but my age was probably made obvious by the fact I was wearing my Year 12 Jersey. I was intrigued, that not 5 minutes into the conversation, she started using 'tu'! Now she wasn't THAT much older, no further than her 30s, so is there still that generational relationship where we're both at the same social 'level'? Or is that an indicator that our relationship has crossed into a more familiar context? I must say, that I actually continued to address her as 'vous', but she didn't notice.
This conversation ^ intrigued me. I wouldn't have known her from Adam before, and 5 minutes later we were, well at least SHE was, in 'tu' territory. And that's where my fascination lies. This line between 'tu' and 'vous', and if there's this little ticker that goes off in the brain of native Francos that indicates that one can start using 'tu', after having started with 'vous'. Of course, the situations when 'tu' is used from the word go is even more intriguing...
So, what are everyone else's experiences with 'tu' and 'vous'? I think it will be a very interesting subject indeed, particularly if one has envie to travel in France and la Francophonie.
Venez discuter! (I speak in the plural here, so of course I shall 'vous' more than one person!)
Chépas.
For a while I've been really interested in this aspect of the French language, also in all other languages like German, and others that have the cultural dilemma that is presented in the choice with the familiar 'you' form versus the formal 'vous'. I've noticed also in some conversations when we talk in French to each other in the forum that a lot of us tend to address people with 'vous', even though we are of the same generation, even though we don't know each other in real life (in the majority of cases!). In predominantly-French forums elsewhere, I've seen that the tendancy is, surprisingly, to use 'tu' in addressing others, even from the first post usually it is 'tu'. Perhaps because the internet takes away the physical presence of this social stigma? But why has it remained in French BOSland? Have we developed the social awareness attached to the tutoiement vs. vousvoiement? Do we tend to be more comfortable with 'vous'?
Though the predominance of 'tu' seems to be attached more readily in Québécois forums, like www.cowboysfringants.com/forum, and it's sort of a generational blur between more older users and younger users on the french.about.com "A la française" forum. From the latter I come to read a thread that inspired the one you are reading now, which I found rather interesting. ---> http://forums.about.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ab-french&msg=3314.1 If it can't be read, go to http://french.about.com, follow the links to the Forum, enter the "A la française" one, then do a search for thread number 3314.
Also, with the people we talk to in our primary place of talking French at the moment, our classes, who do we address as what? Do we address our teachers as 'vous', and do they reciprocate with 'vous' as well? Do we call them 'vous', but they 'tutoie' us? Or do both parties 'se tutoient'? I find it fascinating. It's such a subtle, but clear indicator of social standing/acceptance. I remember on a trip to the Alliance, (on their open evening), I was talking to a native Franco woman, who was older than me. Now apparently I look much older than I actually am, but my age was probably made obvious by the fact I was wearing my Year 12 Jersey. I was intrigued, that not 5 minutes into the conversation, she started using 'tu'! Now she wasn't THAT much older, no further than her 30s, so is there still that generational relationship where we're both at the same social 'level'? Or is that an indicator that our relationship has crossed into a more familiar context? I must say, that I actually continued to address her as 'vous', but she didn't notice.
This conversation ^ intrigued me. I wouldn't have known her from Adam before, and 5 minutes later we were, well at least SHE was, in 'tu' territory. And that's where my fascination lies. This line between 'tu' and 'vous', and if there's this little ticker that goes off in the brain of native Francos that indicates that one can start using 'tu', after having started with 'vous'. Of course, the situations when 'tu' is used from the word go is even more intriguing...
So, what are everyone else's experiences with 'tu' and 'vous'? I think it will be a very interesting subject indeed, particularly if one has envie to travel in France and la Francophonie.
Venez discuter! (I speak in the plural here, so of course I shall 'vous' more than one person!)
Chépas.
