Lobby group seeks election of Muslim MP (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

This isn't censorship, generally I feel threads based around news articles should reference the news article properly. 'Lobby group seeks election of Muslim MP' presents the situation much more accurately than 'Muslims demand their own MP', which confuses people into think Muslims are demanding a MP as opposed to hoping to get one.

 

[mr EaZy]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

summing up breif points

first of all, richard kerbaj is outspoken against muslims in this country, he has previously admitted to misquoting people like keysar trad to shk taj and later shk taj on the subject of keysar trad and then saying that its too late to change as the article is due to hit the press

muslim academics have warned that any article bearing his name ought to be approached with caution as to the validity of its facts.

i havent heard of any "muslim lobby" group here, and i doubt there'd be one.

i would say that both kerbaj and indian princess are in the same boat so theres no point in saying which title should we adopt lol

theres been talk here of muslim politicians trying to impose their values on australia- well all politicians would do that in one way or another- but i understand the kind of person you'd be describing- ironically, some of those kinds of people in the islamic community dont vote: eg: the people of hizb tahrir- i asked one : if i ran for parliament would u vote for me? he said : "no"

irfan yusuf has been a liberal member but never got into the seat of reid (laurie fergerson got in)

keith ellison is a convert to islam but im not sure to what extent he is received by the community as he is pro israel

muslims should campaign for their own MP or someone who represents them

democracy is an ideal state- we talk about democtracy being under attack- because we realise its predicated on a number of things:

-no racism
-educated masses etc

now if we look at the labor caucus / libs and see 1 or 2 azns, and a very few non europeans- is that democracy? depends on the reasons why

certainly- the unity party- formed after the formation of one nation would argue that way and would draw upon labors racist heritage

muslims just want mps to represent them

if u dont have alternative voices in politics- democracy is weakened-

in safe seats in lakemba / bankstown etc thats the way it is- i look at their policies in the last few years and see few targets that addressed long term economic growth in any way...

but who else do i vote for?

so the muslim community wants MPs to take account of these issues more effectively byu putting pressure on them, and also to represent the people who supposedly elected for them.... i.e all we want is a better democracy

kerbaj might call it a muslim lobby calling for a muslim mp
he's a liar though

i would never vote for a muslim who i didnt think was the right person for the job

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

democracy is an ideal state- we talk about democtracy being under attack- because we realise its predicated on a number of things:

-no racism
-educated masses etc

You have a funny idea of what democracy is.

 

[mr EaZy]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

democracy is many things, but at the end its about choice

its also the idea that the people judge what the law should be...

 

[HotShot]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

more like you can't afford to drink starbucks coffee ha ha

Starbucks coffee tastes shit.

Gloria Jeans & Jamaica BLue tastes way better.

I would say Jamaica Blue have the best coffee.

 

[wuddie]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

wtf does coffee have anything to do with this topic?

sick of people derailing the topic

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Wow. Amazing. A section of Australia's population would like a representative. Get outta town.


Lobby groups for the election of more women into parliment are fragmenting our society, turning us against one another. Ditto groups like Family First.

 

[banco55]

Wow. Amazing. A section of Australia's population would like a representative. Get outta town.


Lobby groups for the election of more women into parliment are fragmenting our society, turning us against one another. Ditto groups like Family First.

One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

 

[mr EaZy]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

democracy is many things, but at the end its about choice

its also the idea that the people judge what the law should be...

under democracy- people have a choice- if they dont like a leader they can elect a new one

there is an assumption of free entrance of political entities

suppose racism creeeps in and blacks cant run or vote

thats not demo

suppose labor and lib refuse to put up muslims as candidates in local state and fed seats based on policy that aint demo

ofcourse they dont do that, its just a coincidence, same goes with the lack of representation of other races- aborigines and azns

see demo is underpinned by an educated masses

if everyone is brainwashed and have one view

thats not democracy at its ideal state- the kind envisioned by the greeks

thats why it is said that multiculturalism enchances democracy

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

One of Fortuyn's fears was of pervasive intolerance in the Muslim community. In a televised debate in 2002, "Fortuyn baited the Muslim cleric by flaunting his homosexuality. Finally the imam exploded, denouncing Fortuyn in strongly anti-homosexual terms. Fortuyn calmly turned to the camera and, addressing viewers directly, told them that this is the kind of Trojan horse of intolerance the Dutch are inviting into their society in the name of multiculturalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

That kind of intolerance is already present in our society in persons who are not muslim.
It is incorrect to say that all muslims would have the kind of reaction this imam did. There is nothing illegal or divisive about a section of society lobbying to have one of their own elected- that's what happens in a democracy, Muslim candidates are allowed to run because they are people, with lives and jobs and families.

 

[banco55]

That kind of intolerance is already present in our society in persons who are not muslim.
It is incorrect to say that all muslims would have the kind of reaction this imam did. There is nothing illegal or divisive about a section of society lobbying to have one of their own elected- that's what happens in a democracy, Muslim candidates are allowed to run because they are people, with lives and jobs and families.

The animosity many muslims have towards gays is different in kind/degree compared to say the position Catholic Church, christian fudamentalists have on gays. Iran executes gays for example. I guess my point is that liberals who are sanguine about greater political activism by Muslims and continued large scale muslim immigration may not like the results.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The animosity many muslims have towards gays is different in kind/degree compared to say the position Catholic Church, christian fudamentalists have on gays.

Really? I disagree. I think christian fundamentalists have almost the exact same degree of animosity towards gays as muslims do and much of the higher ranks of the catholic church would probably be similar, if they had the power to maintain such a stance.

Iran executes gays for example.

The idea that most muslims would support that is pretty far out there... I also doubt that if christian fundamentalists had virtually unopposed power in some country the situation would be any different.

I guess my point is that liberals who are sanguine about greater political activism by Muslims and continued large scale muslim immigration may not like the results.

Oh I agree, I most likely differ entirely in my morals from muslims migrating to australia / this lobby group. But to me the most important thing is to uphold, in all individual instances, democracy and free thought - Even if in doing so I might be defending attacks against those very things.

 

[banco55]

The idea that most muslims would support that is pretty far out there... I also doubt that if christian fundamentalists had virtually unopposed power in some country the situation would be any different.
.

I read a book on Iraq recently and the Arabic-American author said he was astonished at how many upper middle class Iraqis supported very draconian laws with regard to gays, prostitutes etc. I don't think the situation would be the same in a country run by christian fundamentalists. Not to mention christian fundamentalists have never come close to taking over a western government in centuries. The muslim extremists have (and do) control countries because their views aren't seen as extremist by their populations.

 

[banco55]

Oh I agree, I most likely differ entirely in my morals from muslims migrating to australia / this lobby group. But to me the most important thing is to uphold, in all individual instances, democracy and free thought - Even if in doing so I might be defending attacks against those very things.

The famous quote about the bill of rights not being a suicide pact comes to mind.

 

[poloktim]

If a Muslim candidate decides to run for parliament. More power to him/her. If elected, well done.

We live in a democracy. A citizen should have the right to run for parliament. Regardless of their religious or political views. It's up to us, the people, to determine who enters into our parliament as a member.

If, as bshoc says, little will vote for a Muslim candidate, then democracy has spoken. It's that simple. It doesn't negate letting them try.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I read a book on Iraq recently and the Arabic-American author said he was astonished at how many upper middle class Iraqis supported very draconian laws with regard to gays, prostitutes etc.

I don't see why he's so amazed, it's only in recent years in western nations that draconian laws with regard to gays have been wiped from the books.

I don't think the situation would be the same in a country run by christian fundamentalists.

Why? Are you trying to claim that there's something different about the muslim faith that makes them more prone to intollerance/violence? Or perhaps you're conceeding that this has much more to do with society (culture, economics etc) than just religion?

The famous quote about the bill of rights not being a suicide pact comes to mind.

I feel much safer in a world where we will allow free thought, democracy to take its route, than to merely impose our own doctrines and wait while those who oppose them seeth into revolution.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

MUSLIMS are overly sensitive and are the only migrants to have plotted violence against Australia, Catholic Archbishop Cardinal George Pell has claimed.

Dr Pell said Muslim leaders needed to develop more appropriate responses to criticism.

"In a democratic society, every group is criticised - Prime Minister (John) Howard said quite rightly last year that if Catholics rioted in Australia every time they were criticised, there would be regular riots," Dr Pell said.

"It's not appropriate that Muslims regularly reply to criticism with insults, denigration and evasions while avoiding the point of issue, and unfortunately we've seen too much of this from some Muslim public personalities."

The comments came during Dr Pell's appearance on a panel about Muslims and non-Muslims in Australia as part of the national deliberative poll.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21325764-421,00.html

Well said Mr Archbishop:wave:

 

[Stott Despoja]

Well said Mr Archbishop:wave:

You missed the key article, Aryan -

Blueprint for coexistence
More personal contact with Muslims could rub off some prejudices, writes Mike Steketee
The Australian, March 5, 2007


WE should never judge a book by its cover but, as marketing experts and politicians know, perceptions are powerful. One of the themes of a weekend during which 340 typical Australians were confronted with how Muslims live and want to live in this country was how surprised they were to find that people in Islamic dress sounded and talked and often thought just like them.

That reflects the reality that, although people often have very strong opinions about Muslims, with the 300,000 of them in Australia comprising 1.5 per cent of the population, few people have had personal contact with them.

The participants in the deliberative poll in Old Parliament House in Canberra were exposed to a weekend of analysis and arguments from academics and religious leaders. But it was discovering what many Muslims are really like - that they are just as diverse as many other Australians and just as similar as other human beings - that probably was the main factor in Newspoll measuring a shift in opinion less hostile to Muslims.

North Queensland vegetable grower Paul Pasquale, one of the 380 attending who knew little about Muslims beforehand, summed up the mood: "We have to give a bit."

[Continued]

I suggest that you read it.

 

[onebytwo]

Well said Mr Archbishop:wave:

from the part you highlighted does the archbishop mean muslims are the only migrants to have tried to destroy aust? conquer aust? hold aust hostage?
what does he mean?
i ask this to you directly since you glorify his statements

 

[banco55]

from the part you highlighted does the archbishop mean muslims are the only migrants to have tried to destroy aust? conquer aust? hold aust hostage?
what does he mean?
i ask this to you directly since you glorify his statements

He's obviously referring to the Australian Muslims who have been convicted for plotting terrorist attacks against their fellow Australians and the score or so who are awaiting trial for the same. Which other ethnic/religious group has produced anything similar?