Martin Place Hostage Situation (2 Viewers)

[nerdasdasd]

Public officials want us to return to our daily lives. Unfortunately nothing will ever be the same again

Something up? Need to chat ?

 

[PakiPrince]

I completely understand that I do not have access to all of the facts and that I am in no way a professional in this field. Nonetheless, in spite of there being more than 200 highly trained and heavily armed police officers on the scene, and only one gunman, two innocent people are dead because the police failed to act in time to save them.

You all attacking this guy and blindly believing in the perfectness of the police, should realise he has a point.

 

[Squar3root]

I meant the 94 -95ish % (you get the point) of terrorists that aren't Muslim.

ooOo nvm then

 

[andreismolnikov]

They tried a peaceful resolution. Someone was shot at about 2am and that is when they went in.

What part of that don't YOU understand?

Looks like all of it.

Let me reiterate: neither I, nor you, nor any member of the general public, has access to all of the facts regarding this matter, so we can only assess what we know, that is, what we have been told. And here is what we have been told: seventeen people entered a cafe yesterday morning expecting to get a coffee or to start their shifts at work. At 9:45, a gunman entered the cafe and took them all hostage. Massive numbers of police arrived very soon after. At that point, the duty of the police, first and foremost, was to ensure the safety of the seventeen hostages. By 2am this morning, two innocent people out of those seventeen were dead. It follows logically, then, that the police failed in their duty. Could they have done something differently? Perhaps, perhaps not, and we may never know. What we do know is that two innocent lives were cut short in the early hours of this morning, two lives that the police were duty-bound to protect.

 

[Kiraken]

tell me more about how storming in earlier would have prevented loss of life

 

[Squar3root]

Let me reiterate: neither I, nor you, nor any member of the general public, has access to all of the facts regarding this matter, so we can only assess what we know, that is, what we have been told. And here is what we have been told: seventeen people entered a cafe yesterday morning expecting to get a coffee or to start their shifts at work. At 9:45, a gunman entered the cafe and took them all hostage. Massive numbers of police arrived very soon after. At that point, the duty of the police, first and foremost, was to ensure the safety of the seventeen hostages. By 2am this morning, two innocent people out of those seventeen were dead. It follows logically, then, that the police failed in their duty. Could they have done something differently? Perhaps, perhaps not, and we may never know. What we do know is that two innocent lives were cut short in the early hours of this morning, two lives that the police were duty-bound to protect.

hue

 

[malcolm21]

Someone had already been shot 8 SECONDS BEFORE THEY WENT IN.

Here's what went down if what I know is correct.


5 hostages managed to escape yesterday afternoon. This prompted the gunman warning anyone who tries to escape again will get everyone else killed. Additionally, the attacker told the police he had 2 bombs hidden in the sydney CBD and 2 bombs in the Lindt Cafe. Any attempt to subdue him and he would've blew them all up, but they found it was a bluff, so the police could've killed him earlier, but I'm guessing they were scared.

In the early morning of today, one of the deceased hostages realised the attacker was falling asleep, so he lunged at him and tried to take the gun off him, while everyone else started to run, he unfortunately got shot, killing him, which prompted the police to act on their prepared plan if something like this were to happen. The gunman continuously fires bullets at the doorway which the hostages are running and police are at, so the second victim either got killed by the police or the gunman

 

[andreismolnikov]

tell me more about how storming in earlier would have prevented loss of life

I never said that storming in earlier would have prevented a loss of life. I simply pointed out that waiting for 16 hours led to a loss of life. This much we know. As for what could have happened - well, we can hypothesise, but we will never truly know.

 

[andreismolnikov]

In the early morning of today, one of the deceased hostages realised the attacker was falling asleep, so he lunged at him and tried to take the gun off him, while everyone else started to run, he unfortunately got shot, killing him, which prompted the police to act on their prepared plan if something like this were to happen. The gunman continuously fires bullets at the doorway which the hostages are running and police are at, so the second victim either got killed by the police or the gunman

Source?

 

[Kiraken]

I never said that storming in earlier would have prevented a loss of life. I simply pointed out that waiting for 16 hours ledl to a loss of life. This much we know. As for what could have happened - well, we can hypothesise, but we will never truly know.

how did waiting lead to a loss of life

what led to a loss of life was a deranged fuckwit taking a bunch of people hostage

if the police *didn't* wait, what do you think would have happened?

 

[malcolm21]

Source?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/25784284/hostage-hailed-a-hero-in-sydney-siege/

 

[andreismolnikov]

how did waiting lead to a loss of life

what led to a loss of life was a deranged fuckwit taking a bunch of people hostage

if the police *didn't* wait, what do you think would have happened?

No, what led to a loss of life was an extremely unfortunate combination of factors, including the fact that this person was out on bail rather than locked up, the fact that he had access to a weapon, the fact that he decided to hold up a cafe with this weapon, the fact that he was not stopped by anyone before he entered the cafe, and, believe it or not, the fact that this stand-off was permitted to continue for sixteen hours, by the end of which, if malcolm21 is correct, the hostages grew extremely worried and took action themselves. These all factors form a chain of events, and, had one link in this chain not been in place, the outcome may have been different. And whether you like it or not, police inaction was a link in the chain.

 

[BLIT2014]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-si...ark-on-wollongong-family-20141216-1288hc.html

When Tori Johnson heard that six-year-old Henry Hinchcliff had never eaten an Easter egg, he was determined to fix the situation.

The Lindt cafe manager invited Henry and his family to visit him in Martin Place and collect a bag of Easter goodies he'd had specially made for them.

Children (from left) Paige Rowney, Kate Hinchcliff, Henry Hinchcliff and Zachary Rowney with a Lindt chef and manager Tori Johnson.
Children (from left) Paige Rowney, Kate Hinchcliff, Henry Hinchcliff and Zachary Rowney with a Lindt chef and manager Tori Johnson. Photo: Supplied
And so one day in April, Mercedez Hinchcliff and her children, Henry and Kate, set off from their home in Wollongong for the ultimate chocolate experience.

"It's definitely something that stuck out in his mind as being one of his best days," Mrs Hinchcliff said of her six-year-old son, who has a rare disease that limits his diet to fewer than 50 foods.

"It taught him that people go out of their way for people."

It was the only time Mrs Hinchcliff met Mr Johnson, 34, who was killed in the siege on his cafe, but the kindness he showed her family on that day has stuck with her.

It began when Mrs Hinchcliff's friend Hayley Rowney got in touch with Mr Johnson and explained Henry's condition - eosinophilic esophagitis.

"There are so many foods [Henry] can't eat," Mrs Hinchcliff said of her son.

"He can actually have chocolate - the Lindt 85 per cent is the only one he can have in the world, but they don't make an Easter egg out of it.

"[Mr Johnson] said, 'no problem, we'll make you one'. They made a huge one, and when they found out my daughter couldn't have dairy, they actually made her one as well," Mrs Hinchcliff said.

"They told my friend Hayley it would take quite a while to make because it would need so much chocolate."

Just before Easter, Mrs Hinchcliff and Mrs Rowney took their children to Sydney to collect their surprise chocolate bounty.

Mrs Hinchcliff said Mr Johnson was "really happy" as he presented Henry and Kate with their eggs, and insisted they take photos of the occasion.

The eggs were "huge, and really intricate, obviously hand-made".

While Kate, 3, may not hold on to clear memories of her first Easter egg, Henry brings it up all the time.

Mrs Hinchcliff said she was heartbroken when she found out that Mr Johnson was among the victims of the Lindt cafe siege. She hoped his parents, Australian artist Ken Johnson and his former wife Rowen, would take some comfort by hearing of their son's kind gesture towards her children.

:We are devastated to hear of his passing and wish to pass along our appreciation of him and our deepest condolences to his family. We will always remember him fondly."

Mr Johnson's parents released a statement via journalist Ben Fordham earlier on Tuesday, saying: "We are so proud of our beautiful boy Tori, gone from this earth but forever in our memories as the most amazing life partner, son and brother we could ever wish for".

Mr Johnson had worked at the Lindt cafe since October 2012, and, before that, had worked at a host of restaurants in Sydney and the United States.

His family has gathered at the 34-year-old's Redfern apartment, His brother James is flying to Sydney from Canada.

It is understood the cafe manager's partner of 14 years, Thomas Zinn, is being comforted along with the Johnsons at the couple's home.

Friends of Mr Johnson described him on Tuesday as "a loving, placid and very gentle soul ... a true gentleman".

Deputy Police Commissioner Catherine Burn would not comment on Tuesday about claims that Mr Johnson was shot when he tried to wrestle the weapon from Monis, to allow the other hostages to escape.

 

[Amundies]

I completely understand that I do not have access to all of the facts and that I am in no way a professional in this field. Nonetheless, in spite of there being more than 200 highly trained and heavily armed police officers on the scene, and only one gunman, two innocent people are dead because the police failed to act in time to save them.

tl;dr I don't know everything about the situation but I'm still gonna say how what they did was wrong and they should have done what I was thinking of instead.

Also, for all of you saying "They should have done _____, instead of doing ____", hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

[andreismolnikov]

tl;dr I don't know everything about the situation but I'm still gonna say how what they did was wrong and they should have done what I was thinking of instead.

Also, for all of you saying "They should have done _____, instead of doing ____", hindsight is a wonderful thing...

You ever heard of a strawman argument? Look it up, cause that's exactly what you are doing.

I never said that what the police did was wrong. I don't know all the facts, so I cannot do that.
You, similarly, cannot say that the police's actions were right. You don't know all the facts, so you cannot do that either.

We look at the facts that we do know.

1) This:
2) 2 people are dead.

Therefore, police failed in their duty to protect.
Really not that difficult.

 

[Amundies]

You ever heard of a strawman argument? Look it up, cause that's exactly what you are doing.

I never said that what the police did was wrong. I don't know all the facts, so I cannot do that.
You, similarly, cannot say that the police's actions were right. You don't know all the facts, so you cannot do that either.

We look at the facts that we do know.

1) This: View attachment 31446
2) 2 people are dead.

Therefore, police failed in their duty to protect.
Really not that difficult.

What would have happened if they had moved in when the gunman initially took hostages? Chances are, all of them would have been killed. The gunman was not as alert as he would have been at midday. Sure, there's a tiny chance that none of the hostages could have been killed, but that's not good enough. Also, what if he wasn't working alone, and he had accomplices with bombs at different parts of the city in case things went sour very quickly for him? That leads to hundreds of lives lost. Police need to assess the situation, and make sure they know everything there is to know before making a move to ensure they don't make the wrong move due to lack of information.

I can explain it slightly differently if you want. At midday, the police had the following facts:
1. There's a guy with a gun inside a cafe.
2. He has hostages.
That is, they had nothing to work with.

 

[studded]

Public officials want us to return to our daily lives. Unfortunately nothing will ever be the same again

It's tragic but these events have occurred in Australia and Sydney more specifically in the past. I think we are fairly reputable for managing to deal with these situations as a collective well. It won't change us if we don't let it.

 

[Swaan]

Ugh guys stop blaming the police for the two people's deaths. Like do you honestly think the police wanted two people to die? Obviously not. Even though not everyone agrees with the decisions they made, it is clear they tried their best. The fault of the deaths belongs to the gunman and him alone. :/

 

[Sy123]

Exactly. No true Scotsman would ever do such a thing.

You obviously don't know what a no true scotsman is. You can call a no true scotsman if I denied him being a Muslim with weak or no evidence, but the evidence I do have is very strong as I said, he claims to be a master of astrology and black magic which is clear shirk and kufr

Most Muslim scholars if not all would consider that person a non-Muslim due to his involvement in clear shirk and kufr

It is not because of him holding those people up hostage, you can't become a non-Muslim for legal reasons, but you can for a theological reasons, this is clear and obvious to anyone with an ounce of understanding of Islam and logic

And you sadly possess neither

 

[Queenroot]

I reckon if I had a gun and I was in the right place at the right time then gg terrorist and no one else would have been hurt

imo guns should be brought back

When you get your firearms license back take down ISIS pls