-
Finished your HSC? Check out our University Discussion, Non-School forums or help out next year's HSC students! -
YOU can help the next generation of students in the community! Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
Maths vs. English (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ellie_Belly
- Start date
hopeles5ly
Take Me Higher.
i never realised lol !Boxxxhead said:lol I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not
hopeles5ly
Take Me Higher.
are you serious?! o_o i really thought you were !! hmm just curious what nash are you then?webby234 said:
YBK
w00t! custom status!! :D
Maths > English
hopeles5ly
Take Me Higher.
YBK said:
HISTORY pwns maths ! yes i didn't use the > sign for obvious reasons =p
katy-g
Member
Ive always been an english nerd, purely because i have the gift of the gab.
Numbers and i have never been friends.
Numbers and i have never been friends.
H
housemouse
Guest
History is not worth doing for one reason, the amount of work you have to spend is not worth what you get in the end.
SarahMary
*Procrastination Central*
Ancient History was fantastic. not a modern history fan as such.
Nor am i.
Nor am i.
English FTW!
though it was funny , i was actually into advance maths at the beginning of my prelims and hated advance and ext english but as time goes, now im into advance and ext english and hated maths again , like i did for my previous years =D .
though it was funny , i was actually into advance maths at the beginning of my prelims and hated advance and ext english but as time goes, now im into advance and ext english and hated maths again , like i did for my previous years =D .
After reading through every post on all nine pages, I have noticed that many people have made some valid, while others unfounded, assertions and could not resist myself from replying.
Many have argued about the importance and relevance of particular subjects taught at school to real world situations. The fact is, while most of what is taught may provide a foundation for more advanced concepts or provide the opportunity to gain other much needed skills, a lot (not most, but a considerable amount) of what is taught in NSW secondary schools will not, as some have said, serve much of a purpose for whatever lies ahead in life. Not just English; not just Mathematics; but most, if not every, subject.
For example, in the HSC Physics course, a lot of what used to be a balance between mathematical problems and physics theory has been replaced with a course that places strong emphasis on solely the qualitative theory side of things, rendering it almost useless for those that plan to undertake studies in Physics at a tertiary level. The same can be said about many other subjects.
In my opinion, Mathematics (2U), at minimum, is essential to gain an understanding of basic mathematical concepts. However, one is free to pick up an extension unit. Conversely, if you not only dislike Mathematics but can think of no ‘use’ for it, either for another subject, tertiary education or your career, again, you are free to do General Mathematics or not do Mathematics at all.
However, and unfortunately, the same cannot be said about English – and it is this lack of choice that I am strongly against. English, too, has its fair share of disadvantages. As somebody has mentioned, we use the English language in our everyday speech (unless, of course, you speak a different language). However, I’m sure everybody that is or will soon be doing the HSC is able to speak English as fluently as they can add and subtract simple numbers.
Note: from now on, when I mention English, I refer not to the English language and grammar/punctuation/etc., but to the Board of Studies’ twisted definition.
To those arguing about the futility of Mathematics in terms of one’s career, I ask you this: how many careers (other than the immediate obvious) would possibly require analytical skills for poetic devices and other such nonsense that have consumed what traditionally was a decent subject that stayed true to its name?
Yes, I am not a fan of English. In fact, I despise it with a burning passion. I love sciences and loathe humanities – together with the arts.
The proponents of English in this topic have raised quite a few points. Firstly, some enjoy English as they believe it allows them to express their own thoughts and beliefs. However, being the sceptic and devil’s advocate I am, whilst completing the English course, I was discouraged from doing so and told to comply with the general school of thought, i.e. the teacher’s “thoughts and beliefs” – despite being taught about the importance of individuality and the destructive consequences of conformity – oh the hypocrisy!
Secondly, some enjoy English as they believe it is less constrained and provides them with the freedom to speak (and write) their mind, whereas Mathematics, as the original poster said, “is set in concrete, it’s black or it’s white, it’s right or wrong”. I have already discussed how ‘free’ students really are. As with the second point, some may view that as a disadvantage. Others, like me, view that as a big advantage. With Mathematics (and generally all other sciences, for that matter), there is generally only one thing to do so as long as you know what you are doing, you cannot go wrong (of course, with some questions, there may be some variation as to how to reach the answer, how to set out your work and perhaps sometimes even multiple answers, but the principle is the same) If you are able to provide the correct solution, you gain a mark. However, with English, everything is so abstract that you can never be sure of what to do. The concepts and ideas may become distorted by one’s own perception. The answers, along with the marking scheme, are so indefinite that, in the end, the marker must make his/her own subjective judgement as to whether a criterion has been met, thus likening the chance of inconsistencies in marks.
Finally, and this is my favourite, some enjoy English as they believe that they can “bullshit”. If you are ‘bullshitting’, you do not know what you are doing. And if that is the case, what are you learning and what exactly makes it so enjoyable?
With all the postmodernism influencing society (though from what I can see, it only affected me through English), we have lost sight of what English traditionally was and should be about. What happened to grammar, punctuation, vocabulary and comprehension? Who created the Change, Journeys and Power modules, what were they thinking and why are the texts featured in them so… weird? Is it just me or are Hollywood films much better than Australia’s (most, if not all, prescribed texts happened to be Australian)? Why is all the classical literature being replaced by ‘contemporary’ text? Why do teachers/markers now value quantity over quality? Why write a page’s worth of words when it can be written succinctly in just a few?
To you, da Vinci’s Mona Lisa may be beautiful, Michelangelo’s David may be an aesthetic work of art and Beethoven’s Symphony 5 may be a masterpiece. Instead, I appreciate the beauty of Newton’s calculus and enjoy being perplexed and challenged by the then-revolutionary but now fundamental ideas of Einstein’s Special and General Theory of Relativity.
As much as I abhor English, I will be satisfied simply by knowing that when the time comes, younger generations are not forced into doing a subject against their will. However, I have no problems with permanently eliminating English (both the subject and the language). How will we communicate, you ask? Why binary of course! (01101001011000110110010101100010011100100110010101100001011010110110010101110010)
Many have argued about the importance and relevance of particular subjects taught at school to real world situations. The fact is, while most of what is taught may provide a foundation for more advanced concepts or provide the opportunity to gain other much needed skills, a lot (not most, but a considerable amount) of what is taught in NSW secondary schools will not, as some have said, serve much of a purpose for whatever lies ahead in life. Not just English; not just Mathematics; but most, if not every, subject.
For example, in the HSC Physics course, a lot of what used to be a balance between mathematical problems and physics theory has been replaced with a course that places strong emphasis on solely the qualitative theory side of things, rendering it almost useless for those that plan to undertake studies in Physics at a tertiary level. The same can be said about many other subjects.
In my opinion, Mathematics (2U), at minimum, is essential to gain an understanding of basic mathematical concepts. However, one is free to pick up an extension unit. Conversely, if you not only dislike Mathematics but can think of no ‘use’ for it, either for another subject, tertiary education or your career, again, you are free to do General Mathematics or not do Mathematics at all.
However, and unfortunately, the same cannot be said about English – and it is this lack of choice that I am strongly against. English, too, has its fair share of disadvantages. As somebody has mentioned, we use the English language in our everyday speech (unless, of course, you speak a different language). However, I’m sure everybody that is or will soon be doing the HSC is able to speak English as fluently as they can add and subtract simple numbers.
Note: from now on, when I mention English, I refer not to the English language and grammar/punctuation/etc., but to the Board of Studies’ twisted definition.
To those arguing about the futility of Mathematics in terms of one’s career, I ask you this: how many careers (other than the immediate obvious) would possibly require analytical skills for poetic devices and other such nonsense that have consumed what traditionally was a decent subject that stayed true to its name?
Yes, I am not a fan of English. In fact, I despise it with a burning passion. I love sciences and loathe humanities – together with the arts.
The proponents of English in this topic have raised quite a few points. Firstly, some enjoy English as they believe it allows them to express their own thoughts and beliefs. However, being the sceptic and devil’s advocate I am, whilst completing the English course, I was discouraged from doing so and told to comply with the general school of thought, i.e. the teacher’s “thoughts and beliefs” – despite being taught about the importance of individuality and the destructive consequences of conformity – oh the hypocrisy!
Secondly, some enjoy English as they believe it is less constrained and provides them with the freedom to speak (and write) their mind, whereas Mathematics, as the original poster said, “is set in concrete, it’s black or it’s white, it’s right or wrong”. I have already discussed how ‘free’ students really are. As with the second point, some may view that as a disadvantage. Others, like me, view that as a big advantage. With Mathematics (and generally all other sciences, for that matter), there is generally only one thing to do so as long as you know what you are doing, you cannot go wrong (of course, with some questions, there may be some variation as to how to reach the answer, how to set out your work and perhaps sometimes even multiple answers, but the principle is the same) If you are able to provide the correct solution, you gain a mark. However, with English, everything is so abstract that you can never be sure of what to do. The concepts and ideas may become distorted by one’s own perception. The answers, along with the marking scheme, are so indefinite that, in the end, the marker must make his/her own subjective judgement as to whether a criterion has been met, thus likening the chance of inconsistencies in marks.
Finally, and this is my favourite, some enjoy English as they believe that they can “bullshit”. If you are ‘bullshitting’, you do not know what you are doing. And if that is the case, what are you learning and what exactly makes it so enjoyable?
With all the postmodernism influencing society (though from what I can see, it only affected me through English), we have lost sight of what English traditionally was and should be about. What happened to grammar, punctuation, vocabulary and comprehension? Who created the Change, Journeys and Power modules, what were they thinking and why are the texts featured in them so… weird? Is it just me or are Hollywood films much better than Australia’s (most, if not all, prescribed texts happened to be Australian)? Why is all the classical literature being replaced by ‘contemporary’ text? Why do teachers/markers now value quantity over quality? Why write a page’s worth of words when it can be written succinctly in just a few?
To you, da Vinci’s Mona Lisa may be beautiful, Michelangelo’s David may be an aesthetic work of art and Beethoven’s Symphony 5 may be a masterpiece. Instead, I appreciate the beauty of Newton’s calculus and enjoy being perplexed and challenged by the then-revolutionary but now fundamental ideas of Einstein’s Special and General Theory of Relativity.
As much as I abhor English, I will be satisfied simply by knowing that when the time comes, younger generations are not forced into doing a subject against their will. However, I have no problems with permanently eliminating English (both the subject and the language). How will we communicate, you ask? Why binary of course! (01101001011000110110010101100010011100100110010101100001011010110110010101110010)
Ennaybur
Active Member
tl;dr
victorheaven
Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2007
- Messages
- 74
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2007
Obviously Maths, u dont need to study and u can get a good mark for maths (if u have normal intelligence), however u cant necessarily get a good mark for english for being a nerd
ssejamafone
Ninja?
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2006
- Messages
- 709
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- HSC
- N/A
i heartily agreej0sh said:
i think you're wrong there about the lack of need to study for maths. Maybe for 2 unit, you can get by without studying too much, but for 3U and DEFINITELy 4U, if you do not study, then believe me, even if you have 'normal' intelligence, then you should NOT expect to do very well.victorheaven said:
CVHS08.KLE
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20
- Gender
- Female
- HSC
- 2008
i must admit! maths is intresting.. the way you use the methods and all to get to the answer is like WOW!! lol but its way too complex for me.. get so frustrated when i dont get it right LOl. and maths pretty much only has one answer.. whereas English.. allows room for variations in answer.. so yeh i dont get that frustrated when i dont get the right answer for english xD just means i interpret things differently!!
i dont get that frustrated when i dont get the right answer for english xD just means i interpret things differently!!
kurt.physics
Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2007
- Messages
- 840
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- HSC
- N/A
I belive maths is better than english for the following reasons.
1) maths is more interesting. You have number theory, calculus, algebra, geometry and some advanced areas such as topology, homology, algebraic topology, algebraic geometry, modular forms, metamathematics, proof theory and the list goes on. Where as for english you have poems, literature, spelling and shakespear.
2) Most of everything in English is made up. Before going crazy over this provocative statement, poems, literature and spelling are all made up, it was not written in the starts, its not imprinted into the universe, its just a language that has developed into genres such that you have a guide line that makes people more interested based on our primative-like ways.
Where as for Mathematics, it to is a language, but the key difference is that it is not made up, sure, 1 + 1 = 2 has metamathematical implications, but it is logic, and logic is defined as the science of reason. So it can be well defined. And beyond elementary number theory, we have algebra, another way of reasoning, denoting a number or number of numbers as a letter. Letting us do complex calculuations, to an extent, more easily. After we have developed the reasoning of algebra, geometry and number theory. Algebra was the key to proving, that is defined by a dictionary, a way or means of showing beyond doubt the truth of something, all the statements of number theory and geometry. Once we had that out of the way, René descartes reasoned another powerful weapon, the graph and using algebraic equations to make lines.
Now here is where it gets interesting, mathematicians doodled and fiddled and search through these equations and graphs and out popped a magnificent branch of mathematics know as Calculus. Calculus was discoved, not made up, it was discoved by simply finding the gradient of a curve. This magnificent discovery led to other branches of mathematics. Mathematics fiddled more and they got topology, a branch of mathematics dealing with certain spaces, this was discovered, not made up, we have, over hundreds of years built our way up to reason new mathematics that can be proven.
3) Maths is more related to the real world. Buildings, clocks, money, Computers, internet, music, phones, electricity, satelites, space travel and many other things rely on mathematics, with out mathematics, we would have never discovered/made any of those things. We dont need English, we can, as j0sh, has mentioned, speak in binary, a purly math based language. Maths is a language that is universal, true, the majority of the world speaks english, but the whole of the world understands how to count and do math.
In conclusion, Mathematics is a beautiful discovery and language where as English is just a concoction of someones oppinions and beliefs, i mean, who said knife was spelt with a k, some one just made that up!
1) maths is more interesting. You have number theory, calculus, algebra, geometry and some advanced areas such as topology, homology, algebraic topology, algebraic geometry, modular forms, metamathematics, proof theory and the list goes on. Where as for english you have poems, literature, spelling and shakespear.
2) Most of everything in English is made up. Before going crazy over this provocative statement, poems, literature and spelling are all made up, it was not written in the starts, its not imprinted into the universe, its just a language that has developed into genres such that you have a guide line that makes people more interested based on our primative-like ways.
Where as for Mathematics, it to is a language, but the key difference is that it is not made up, sure, 1 + 1 = 2 has metamathematical implications, but it is logic, and logic is defined as the science of reason. So it can be well defined. And beyond elementary number theory, we have algebra, another way of reasoning, denoting a number or number of numbers as a letter. Letting us do complex calculuations, to an extent, more easily. After we have developed the reasoning of algebra, geometry and number theory. Algebra was the key to proving, that is defined by a dictionary, a way or means of showing beyond doubt the truth of something, all the statements of number theory and geometry. Once we had that out of the way, René descartes reasoned another powerful weapon, the graph and using algebraic equations to make lines.
Now here is where it gets interesting, mathematicians doodled and fiddled and search through these equations and graphs and out popped a magnificent branch of mathematics know as Calculus. Calculus was discoved, not made up, it was discoved by simply finding the gradient of a curve. This magnificent discovery led to other branches of mathematics. Mathematics fiddled more and they got topology, a branch of mathematics dealing with certain spaces, this was discovered, not made up, we have, over hundreds of years built our way up to reason new mathematics that can be proven.
3) Maths is more related to the real world. Buildings, clocks, money, Computers, internet, music, phones, electricity, satelites, space travel and many other things rely on mathematics, with out mathematics, we would have never discovered/made any of those things. We dont need English, we can, as j0sh, has mentioned, speak in binary, a purly math based language. Maths is a language that is universal, true, the majority of the world speaks english, but the whole of the world understands how to count and do math.
In conclusion, Mathematics is a beautiful discovery and language where as English is just a concoction of someones oppinions and beliefs, i mean, who said knife was spelt with a k, some one just made that up!
cravingforpizza
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2008
- Messages
- 12
- Gender
- Female
- HSC
- 2010
English!!
I <heart> english because you can write about what you think
and express yourself
Maths is just sitting and using numbers and
just checking how much will power a person'
has to stand maths!!!
I <heart> english because you can write about what you think
and express yourself
Maths is just sitting and using numbers and
just checking how much will power a person'
has to stand maths!!!
Yes, maths is useful concerning satellites, television, mobile phones etc. But these objects are plain materialistic.
Maths IS discovery, but discoveries can only occur if an answer exists, so, maths is simply a method of acknowledging preconceived answers. So why do it? - To farewell our insecurities so we're more...comfortable.
An earlier post raised the fact that English will never cure cancer. Even if a cure was discovered, it wouldn't be offered to the public, or at least offered at an unreasonable cost. Cancer is one of nature's many mechanisms for keeping the population in check; it's terrible, but necessary.
Maths is a view of life while English is life.
Maths IS discovery, but discoveries can only occur if an answer exists, so, maths is simply a method of acknowledging preconceived answers. So why do it? - To farewell our insecurities so we're more...comfortable.
An earlier post raised the fact that English will never cure cancer. Even if a cure was discovered, it wouldn't be offered to the public, or at least offered at an unreasonable cost. Cancer is one of nature's many mechanisms for keeping the population in check; it's terrible, but necessary.
Maths is a view of life while English is life.