Med or Combined Law more difficult to get into? (2 Viewers)

[taintedfeather]

At first I thought Med was with all the high ATAR, UMAT and interview, but the more I think about it, Combined Law seems just as difficult or even more so. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but these are some of the major factors (btw, I'm going to deal with just the major Universities Sydney - ie. USYD, UNSW, Macq, UTS and UWS...perhaps also Newcastle).

1. Bonus points apply to medicine.
UWS, and certain other Med unis offer bonus points schemes, where the 95+ minimum ATAR can be reduced to 92 or 93 (or even lower in other states). It might not seem like a big deal, but when added with the EAS scheme, that's a great chunk of bonus points.

Surprisingly, almost all universities in terms of law, repeat the same phrase "bonus points apply to all courses...except all Combined Law courses."

2. Medicine has UMAT & Interview
Well round two definitely goes to Medicine for their austere Undergraduate selection process. But having said that........

3. Combined Law require a higher ATAR.
Well this is true - especially in UNSW and USYD law. Thus whilst it's possible to get into Med with a 92 ATAR, it's not going to be sufficient for the 99.65 ATAR cutoff for USYD or the 99.55 for UNSW or even the 97 for UTS. (Not including EAS, and UWS).

So where does it stand for undergraduates? Well, at this stage, whilst both are quite difficult to achieve, I'm going to say Medicine has the upper hand, with it's relatively high minimum ATAR requirement, and it's trial by ordeal process a.k.a UMAT + Interviews. That's not saying Combined Law is easy to get into of course....it's not, but Med, at this stage is a bit more challenging.

4. Graduate Studies and Transfers
Okay, here is where things get interesting. What about entry into Med and Combined Law at graduate level?

- The Medicine pool is now more in one's favour, and transfers from courses such as Medical Ccience is is far easier than the dog-eat-dog Undergraduate medicine selection process. So technically, you could get into med with a low 70 ATAR, do a course like Medical Science, do well, and transfer. Wow, who would've thought it could be that simple?

- What about Combined Law? Well....now it seems that's swapped places with Medicine and has become the snake headed monster. Why? Because transfer into Combined Law is not permitted....if you want to transfer into law, it's going to be Graduate Law - which is a stand alone degree. The only possible way to transfer to Combined Law is....if you're already doing Combined Law! (It's very redundant isn't it?)

So what's the moral of this story? Well, it's actually that Medicine and Combined Law, are balanced in terms of difficulty getting in. Whilst it might seem that Medicine is the most challenging course to gain a place, that's only at Undergraduate level, as Graduate medicine soothes this raging behemoth and makes it far easier for students to enter.

Likewise, a combination of high Undergraduate ATAR cutoffs (99.65 makes even the most diligent of students go into remission) and an impossibility for any entrance at graduate level makes law a stone cold beats of its own.

So what's the true moral of all this then? Well, it's that med and combined law are unnecessarily difficult to enter, and that those who get the required ATARS are thrusted into a greater, harrowing process that makes life hell for them. Now doesn't getting a 75 ATAR and getting into B Science sound so much more simpler?

No? Well, good luck, as you'll be joining me, and the rest of us Med and Combined Law Students who signed our lives away for 5-10 years of boring/exciting/monotonous/exhilarating study.

 

[rx34]

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So technically, you could get into med with a low 70 ATAR, do a course like Medical Science, do well, and transfer. Wow, who would've thought it could be that simple?

Wrong, some places like UNSW take the GPA/ATAR combo. This is taken from the UNSW med website: So what you get for your ATAR affects your transfer chances

As stated previously, if an applicant has a ATAR of less than 90.00, their tertiary results can never be sufficient to raise their academic results to the equivalent of the minimum ATAR of 95.00 required for consideration for entry. An applicant who scores a ATAR of around 98 would need to achieve results of high distinctions in some courses and distinctions in the rest in order to maintain the same equivalent ATAR.

if you want to transfer into law, it's going to be Graduate Law - which is a stand alone degree. The only possible way to transfer to Combined Law is....if you're already doing Combined Law! (It's very redundant isn't it?)

Wrong again, I did commerce and just transferred into second year commerce/law.

Well, it's actually that Medicine and Combined Law, are balanced in terms of difficulty getting in.

WTF cares how difficult it is to get in? Just do what you like, not how hard it is to get into.

Now doesn't getting a 75 ATAR and getting into B Science sound so much more simpler?

Wrong yet again, like I said some places like UNSW take the GPA/ATAR combo so what you get in your ATAR affects your transfer chances. With a lower ATAR, your NRSL ATAR would be lower.

No? Well, good luck, as you'll be joining me, and the rest of us Med and Combined Law Students who signed our lives away for 5-10 years of boring/exciting/monotonous/exhilarating study.

Nope, it's not boring, I am very interested in law and don't mind spending 5 years studying it. I chose to do law not because how HARD it was to get into, rather because I have a true interest in it. Choosing a course based on how hard it is to get into is retarded.

 

[taintedfeather]

WTF cares how difficult it is to get in? Just do what you like, not how hard it is to get into.

Choosing a course based on how hard it is to get into is retarded.

I don't get why you're being unnecessarily aggressive....

None of the things I've said were offensive.

And when have I said pick based on difficulty....? It's just a comparison of the difficulty of getting into law and getting into medicine....

What's with the anger...sheesh, there's no need to throw stuff into people's faces for no reason. Especially if they're being civil and not at all rude to you.

.

Wrong, some places like UNSW take the GPA/ATAR combo. This is taken from the UNSW med website: So what you get for your ATAR affects your transfer chances

As stated previously, if an applicant has a ATAR of less than 90.00, their tertiary results can never be sufficient to raise their academic results to the equivalent of the minimum ATAR of 95.00 required for consideration for entry. An applicant who scores a ATAR of around 98 would need to achieve results of high distinctions in some courses and distinctions in the rest in order to maintain the same equivalent ATAR.



Wrong again, I did commerce and just transferred into second year commerce/law.



WTF cares how difficult it is to get in? Just do what you like, not how hard it is to get into.



Wrong yet again, like I said some places like UNSW take the GPA/ATAR combo so what you get in your ATAR affects your transfer chances. With a lower ATAR, your NRSL ATAR would be lower.



Nope, it's not boring, I am very interested in law and don't mind spending 5 years studying it. I chose to do law not because how HARD it was to get into, rather because I have a true interest in it. Choosing a course based on how hard it is to get into is retarded.

 

[Jackie.bored]

1. Bonus points apply to medicine.
UWS, and certain other Med unis offer bonus points schemes, where the 95+ minimum ATAR can be reduced to 92 or 93 (or even lower in other states). It might not seem like a big deal, but when added with the EAS scheme, that's a great chunk of bonus points.

Surprisingly, almost all universities in terms of law, repeat the same phrase "bonus points apply to all courses...except all Combined Law courses."

Actually, I'm not sure if UWS counts subject bonus points for the ATAR, nor any other universities in New South Wales. Bonus points do not apply to medicine either. (If you call being GWS bonus points, ok.) EAS does apply, as it does to Combined Law. The average ATAR for UWS is still 99 though. UNSW is even higher.

2. Medicine has UMAT & Interview
Well round two definitely goes to Medicine for their austere Undergraduate selection process. But having said that........

Do not underestimate the unpredictability of the UMAT. Interview same.

3. Combined Law require a higher ATAR.
Well this is true - especially in UNSW and USYD law. Thus whilst it's possible to get into Med with a 92 ATAR, it's not going to be sufficient for the 99.65 ATAR cutoff for USYD or the 99.55 for UNSW or even the 97 for UTS. (Not including EAS, and UWS).

Again, the average ATARs for Medicine at uni is approx 99 or more.

4. Graduate Studies and Transfers
Okay, here is where things get interesting. What about entry into Med and Combined Law at graduate level?

- The Medicine pool is now more in one's favour, and transfers from courses such as Medical Ccience is is far easier than the dog-eat-dog Undergraduate medicine selection process. So technically, you could get into med with a low 70 ATAR, do a course like Medical Science, do well, and transfer. Wow, who would've thought it could be that simple?

Actually, not really. UNSW still requires that you get minimum 95 ATAR and even with that you require a high distinction average in uni. You could transfer from any course, as with combined law, you just need to have a good enough WAM. Also, you'll still be competing with the undergraduates for spots.

- What about Combined Law? Well....now it seems that's swapped places with Medicine and has become the snake headed monster. Why? Because transfer into Combined Law is not permitted....if you want to transfer into law, it's going to be Graduate Law - which is a stand alone degree. The only possible way to transfer to Combined Law is....if you're already doing Combined Law! (It's very redundant isn't it?)

Actually you can internal transfer into combined law, at least that's what my friends are planning to do. They're currently doing arts degrees.

So what's the moral of this story? Well, it's actually that Medicine and Combined Law, are balanced in terms of difficulty getting in.

But you're not necessarily doing it just because you got the marks.

No? Well, good luck, as you'll be joining me, and the rest of us Med and Combined Law Students who signed our lives away for 5-10 years of boring/exciting/monotonous/exhilarating study.

fun fun fun

 

[annabackwards]

OP, go research.

 

[life92]

Dude...
Med is by far so much harder to get into.

To be honest, getting into Combined Law doesn't seem too hard because all you need is the ATAR.
Anyone with hard work can get that high ATAR.

As for Med, you have Interview + UMAT.
If you screw up UMAT, then you're screwed and won't even be considered for an interview.
Here, even though lots of people do UMAT training, I didn't do it myself, but I hear it only really helps for Section 3.
And then you have the interview, where MANY people screw up.
I thought that my friends would get into Med considering their ATAR and UMAT scores, but it looks like they screwed up the interview even though they said it was "interesting" and "fun" (the UWS one).

And where have you seen bonus points for Med?
Would you please let me know? Because despite my applying for Med, I didn't quite find any.
The only one I found was UWS which was for Greater Western Sydney applicants, and they only needed to get 93+.

As for transferring into medicine, for UWS its basically the same as when you complete the HSC, because I read that they don't consider you're ATAR and that its just a 'hurdle'. In this way, UMAT and the interview have a great weighting, and these are the areas where people seem to screw up.
For UNSW, to transfer, say after first year, they consider your GPA as well as your ATAR, and getting a good GPA, I would say is much harder than getting a good ATAR.

Also, doing say Medical Science at UNSW, and then transferring after completing the degree, out of the say 100 students studying Medical Science, only about ~8-10 (don't quote me on this, but I'm sure its around this) get into the UNSW MBBS program. And considering the number of students that do Medical Science JUST to get into Med.....

Completing a degree and then entering postgrad Med, I wouldn't say is as easy as you make it seem. You need a good GPA and good GAMSAT score. The difficulty of GAMSAT is completely different to the difficulty of UMAT (quote one of my friends that took it).

PS. I wanted to get into Medicine, DIDN'T ultimately fail UMAT (I was over the cutoff) but didn't even get offered an interview for second round despite my ATAR of 99.90. I reckon my predicted was probably around low 99.xx though.

 

[taintedfeather]

Again, the average ATARs for Medicine at uni is approx 99 or more.

Really?! Wow, Well that might be true, but base don schools on my district, all the med pple got 98 or below.....

Nope, it's not boring, I am very interested in law and don't mind spending 5 years studying it.

Does oxymoron ring any bells...?

Actually you can internal transfer into combined law, at least that's what my friends are planning to do. They're currently doing arts degrees.

But you would still need the high ATAR/GPA right?

But you're not necessarily doing it just because you got the marks.

Of course! But most pple view Law/Med as the two most difficult courses to enter.

And where have you seen bonus points for Med?
Would you please let me know? Because despite my applying for Med, I didn't quite find any.
The only one I found was UWS which was for Greater Western Sydney applicants, and they only needed to get 93+.

I'm sure EAS applies. And a few of the interstates, possibly TAS.

Also, doing say Medical Science at UNSW, and then transferring after completing the degree, out of the say 100 students studying Medical Science, only about ~8-10 (don't quote me on this, but I'm sure its around this) get into the UNSW MBBS program. And considering the number of students that do Medical Science JUST to get into Med.....

I don't think so, I asked career advisor and Uni advisor, and both said there was a certain amount set aside for graduate....don't forget some unis are graduate only.

PS. I wanted to get into Medicine, DIDN'T ultimately fail UMAT (I was over the cutoff) but didn't even get offered an interview for second round despite my ATAR of 99.90.

Awww, but well done on the ATAR! Like I said, a bunch of my friends got into Med with only 98 and less....but having said that they got like 98 in the UMAT!

 

[Jackie.bored]

But you would still need the high ATAR/GPA right?

Over 98 ATAR and distinction or high credit average (I can't remember which) but yeah, it's pretty easy according to them.

 

[rajputsingh]

Med is definitely harder to get into. UWS offers people with an 80 UAI to gain a place in combined law as well as UNSW allowing someone with 98 to get in (as was seen with a post made on BoS)

 

[rx34]

I don't get why you're being unnecessarily aggressive....

None of the things I've said were offensive.

And when have I said pick based on difficulty....? It's just a comparison of the difficulty of getting into law and getting into medicine....

What's with the anger...sheesh, there's no need to throw stuff into people's faces for no reason. Especially if they're being civil and not at all rude to you.

I didn't realise you would be that offended. It's more internet colloquial and after months of using the BoS and whirlpool forums, I have developed a bad tongue on the internet. I'm particularly annoyed especially when people ask questions like "How to transfer to law from BCom" when it can be easily answered with the search function. I'm not like that in person though, I rarely swear. Sorry

Big hugs all around

 

[Makro]

Whirlpool is the nicest place ever. I call lies.

 

[rx34]

Whirlpool is the nicest place ever. I call lies.

Haha not if you read the threads I'm reading

Also lots of bogans and year 10 dropouts on the education forum.

 

[taintedfeather]

I didn't realise you would be that offended. It's more internet colloquial and after months of using the BoS and whirlpool forums, I have developed a bad tongue on the internet. I'm not like that in person though, I rarely swear. Sorry

Big hugs all around

Thanks for that.

But I did write some incorrect stuff, and a couple of things you said were quite valid. I get how we all have our fuming moments, or bad days - happens to everyone. I don't like bearing grudges anyways, hating someone is more work and effort for you than the other person!

Oh, and thanks for the response guys, most of my posts where gathered from careers advice, a few handbooks and friends, so I guessed at least half of what I said was going to be a tad untrue.

PS. I wanted to get into Medicine, DIDN'T ultimately fail UMAT (I was over the cutoff) but didn't even get offered an interview for second round despite my ATAR of 99.90. I reckon my predicted was probably around low 99.xx though.

But like I said, wouldn't it be easier to transfer to a graduate med school...? I mean UNSW has both undergraduate and graduate med right? So there would obviously be far less space compared to a graduate med school.

And can I ask a question to all med students/future med students? Would you prefer working under the UK/AUS Medical system of socialized healthcare (where it's basically free for everyone) or the privatized system of the US (where patients pay).

There was a story of a man who severed two fingers in the U.S and had to choose either his 4th finger which cost $40,000 for surgery, and his third finger, for the basement price of $15,000...he only got to choose one finger due to cash restraint. So what I'm saying, is do you do it for the sake of helping people (Uk/AUS) or for the cash (U.S)? And given the chance, would u prefer to work under the U.S system, where you still technically help people, but charge them ridiculous prices, which does allow you to buy $4million - $5million homes and 7 or 8 fast cars.

btw.

Whirlpool is the nicest place ever. I call lies.

lol?

 

[Jackie.bored]

But like I said, wouldn't it be easier to transfer to a graduate med school...? I mean UNSW has both undergraduate and graduate med right? So there would obviously be far less space compared to a graduate med school.

Actually... no. UNSW is currently undergraduate only. It has a competitive MedSci entry stream though. Graduate med is a whole another process: GPA, GAMSAT, Interview. You really can't transfer to a graduate med school, just apply.

 

[Dr_Fresh]

making general comparisons isn't very valid since there is a massive range when considering the cutoff for combined law. it can range from the 80s up to the mid/high 99s.
the same applies to med, its extremely hard for some but easier for others if they are from a certain district (UWS), rural background or ethnicity (indigenious/torres strait).

it would make much more sense if u were comparing specific law or med schools. for instance comparing USyd law (99.55) with UNSW medicine (median in mid 99s).

@OP: comparing UWS med (with bonuses for GWS) with USyd law is just like comparing UWS combined law with USyd provisional medicine (99.95 cutoff + umat as discriminator). they are very different in terms of difficulty to get into for their respective fields.

 

[taintedfeather]

Actually... no. UNSW is currently undergraduate only. It has a competitive MedSci entry stream though. Graduate med is a whole another process: GPA, GAMSAT, Interview. You really can't transfer to a graduate med school, just apply.

Right, but I mean it would be easier with an ATAR of 99.9 to get into a full graduate med uni rather than an undergrad+graduate one right?

it would make much more sense if u were comparing specific law or med schools

Definitely.

@jackie and fresh

I assume u both prefer the socialized med system then?

 

[Jackie.bored]

Right, but I mean it would be easier with an ATAR of 99.9 to get into a full graduate med uni rather than an undergrad+graduate one right?

@jackie and fresh
I assume u both prefer the socialized med system then?

I have no idea lol.
Actually, for graduate med uni they don't care anything about your ATAR, only your uni scores. Gives people a fresh start.

 

[kaz1]

Med is harder imo because of UMAT.

UMAT was the hardest test I ever did in my whole life, including my 4unit trial.

 

[life92]

I'm sure EAS applies. And a few of the interstates, possibly TAS.

I thought you were only dealing with "... just the major Universities Sydney - ie. USYD, UNSW, Macq, UTS and UWS...perhaps also Newcastle)."

Wow you're an idiot. You put Combined Law as a preference after Med? No wonder you didn't get an interview...

Second round interviews, as in the interviews they offer you once you receive your ATAR, around December 16.

The First round of interviews are given on the basis of a predicted ATAR and UMAT score and shortlisted students are told around late October~early November, because these interviews are late November~early December.

And Med was my first preference.
I put cominbed law at the VERY end just for fun
But I never wanted to do law anyway...

Edit: lol. Ignore what I said about EAS... Didn't do my research XD

 

[badquinton304]

Med is harder, wait till you actually experience UMAT and interview.