Media Article: School Leaving Age 18 (2 Viewers)

[Captain Gh3y]

can kids even get welfare for doing nothing?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

can kids even get welfare for doing nothing?

I believe so, if they can prove their financial situation to be in need of it (i.e. their parents are poor).

There's really no excuse for doing nothing productive with your life so far as you are able (assuming you are healthy and without major life obstacles that would prevent you).

 

[Triangulum]

I think if you're not studying full-time you need to satisfy the activity test (show that you're searching for work or whatever) to get youth allowance.

 

[chicky_pie]

a) No-one cares what you think

b) I dont need to imagine, im stuck with you.


c) very Accurate description of yourself.

I actually finished Year 12 and got a good UAI score of 30, don't be jealous.

 

[incentivation]

Its interesting. The only student in the article who expressed a view remotely close to reality was the student from Sydney Secondary College; a coed, comprehensive, publicly funded school.

I see no compelling reason why we should keep students at school beyond year 10 if they are disinterested in formal education. It merely works to make the lives of teachers, and fellow students more difficult, and furthers the entreching of schools from lower socio-economic areas at the bottom of the HSC rankings.

Instead of retaining these students at school, we should be nurturing their career prospects through the promotion of apprenticeships and similar ideas. The resources utilised in maintaining such a large number of students at school who would otherwise be employed in the workforce would be better used elsewhere. Additionally, it would be adding to the potential productive capacity of the economy by increasing the participation rate.

I attended a public school with a large number of students within this category, and the completion of the HSC (keyword completion) has done little in terms of providing opportunity.

 

[michael1990]

Its interesting. The only student in the article who expressed a view remotely close to reality was the student from Sydney Secondary College; a coed, comprehensive, publicly funded school.

I see no compelling reason why we should keep students at school beyond year 10 if they are disinterested in formal education. It merely works to make the lives of teachers, and fellow students more difficult, and furthers the entreching of schools from lower socio-economic areas at the bottom of the HSC rankings.

Instead of retaining these students at school, we should be nurturing their career prospects through the promotion of apprenticeships and similar ideas. The resources utilised in maintaining such a large number of students at school who would otherwise be employed in the workforce would be better used elsewhere. Additionally, it would be adding to the potential productive capacity of the economy by increasing the participation rate.

I attended a public school with a large number of students within this category, and the completion of the HSC (keyword completion) has done little in terms of providing opportunity.

SO SO SO AGREE!

 

[boris]

Yeah that drives me utterly spare and was one of the main reasons why I didn't want to become a doctor; purely because of the people I would have to interact with.

Also, as the child of a Doctor, it's a fucking shit profession. Sif spend 6 years learning to do stuff to only get paid 100K plus like ten years in.

Not even worth the effort when you can get paid that much fuckin sitting on your arse playing internet poker nowadays. SUPBAZOOKAJOE.

Tell your parental to move to Temora.
$500,000 minimum.

The docs here in Parkes are on a minimum of $200,000. The one out in Trundle is on $300,000 minimum coz he sponsors all the overseas shit doctors and gets a 60% cut of their earnings.

My bro is doing a civil engineer traineeship with a council in the Riverina. Apparently its the sweetest job ever, bagging abos and facebooking.

 

[boris]

haha. ino

 

[incentivation]

Because it reduces the number of dole bludging teenagers?

As others have said, introduce measures which make it more difficult to obtain youth focused welfare. i.e. requirements to participate in programs etc

That is an excellent generalisation you have made there. Just because teenagers are interested in staying in school, does not mean they are going to do well. My grade had 60 odd stay on to Year 12, and only 10 or so people get a UAI of 80+. This isn't an indication of us being from a "lower" socio-economic area - we are part of the Sutherland Shire. I do agree though it will make it even tougher for teachers and students to work and study at an optimum level because more distractions means less teaching and learning time.

True to some degree, however it makes no sense in my opinion keeping those students at school who have little interest and could be more productive elsewhere.

Ruddkips plans to put together trade school options (I can't remember the name right now, basically you learn a trade whilst staying at school) could be a way to have both options available. I like the plan he put forward, just hope he actually delivers.

Rudd's plan is superficial on many levels. It would be more practical to have particular high schools entirely focused on technical education similar to the old model which existed prior to the 80's. I fear that with Rudd's model, it will get to a point where schools opt to abandon the idea due to a lack of interest and funding. It would be a more efficient use of resources to target the funding to particular schools, as oppose to having all schools recieve a small amount of funding.

 

[bassistx]

If their parents can't pass the assets and income tests, then they don't get YA. I don't see why it bothers you so much, Katie.
If they're looking for a job or studying, then they get it (I can understand why). But otherwise, no, they are not entitled to it. So it shouldn't really be an issue here.
I can understand people sitting playing playstation 24/7 is quite a waste of oxygen, but if we're not paying them to sit there (tax->YA), then it's none of our business what they do, is it? If they aren't annoying teachers and they don't want to go to uni, then let them do whatever the heck they want. If they want a life, opportunities are available (apprenticeships, etc) but if they wholeheartedly want to do absolutely nothing, there's no use in keeping them at school. So long as we aren't paying them to sit at home, it shouldn't be of any concern to us what they do (yes, we have a trade shortage, but they don't want to work so you can't force them).
I just think that they should have the choice whether to work or not as much as they have the choice to continue their studies or not. They will get a job eventually or maybe just live in their parent's basement.

 

[boris]

If their parents can't pass the assets and income tests, then they don't get YA. I don't see why it bothers you so much, Katie.
If they're looking for a job or studying, then they get it (I can understand why). But otherwise, no, they are not entitled to it. So it shouldn't really be an issue here.
I can understand people sitting playing playstation 24/7 is quite a waste of oxygen, but if we're not paying them to sit there (tax->YA), then it's none of our business what they do, is it? If they aren't annoying teachers and they don't want to go to uni, then let them do whatever the heck they want. If they want a life, opportunities are available (apprenticeships, etc) but if they wholeheartedly want to do absolutely nothing, there's no use in keeping them at school. So long as we aren't paying them to sit at home, it shouldn't be of any concern to us what they do (yes, we have a trade shortage, but they don't want to work so you can't force them).
I just think that they should have the choice whether to work or not as much as they have the choice to continue their studies or not. They will get a job eventually or maybe just live in their parent's basement.

Why what bothers me? That kids can drop out at 15 because they can't hack it in school, so they do nothing? Gee, I can't see why that would bother me.
If they're leaving because they're not academically inclined and have aspirations (and seek traineeships/apprenticships/skills courses) then fine.

If they can't hack school because they're little pricks and don't like authority the worse thing they can do is to sit at home and do nothing. That is when it leads to trouble. If they're the kind of kids whose parents will let them drop out and just do nothing but sit in the basement, then it's fairly obvious there is a lack of parental care and as such the kids are probably going to get into mischief.

If they're getting YA for doing nothing that pisses me because we're paying for them to do nothing. if they don't get YA because their parents earn too much, then the chances of them being allowed to slum it in the basement doing nothing will be slim.

 

[bassistx]

Why what bothers me? That kids can drop out at 15 because they can't hack it in school, so they do nothing? Gee, I can't see why that would bother me.
If they're leaving because they're not academically inclined and have aspirations (and seek traineeships/apprenticships/skills courses) then fine.

If they can't hack school because they're little pricks and don't like authority the worse thing they can do is to sit at home and do nothing. That is when it leads to trouble. If they're the kind of kids whose parents will let them drop out and just do nothing but sit in the basement, then it's fairly obvious there is a lack of parental care and as such the kids are probably going to get into mischief.

If they're getting YA for doing nothing that pisses me because we're paying for them to do nothing. if they don't get YA because their parents earn too much, then the chances of them being allowed to slum it in the basement doing nothing will be slim.

I was going to say.... If their parents are "poor", I doubt they'd be able to "slum it", either. On the contrary, their parents would push them to get a job and bring in some extra income into the household, I reckon.
But in any case, like I said, if we aren't paying them to stay at home, it shouldn't be any of our business what they do. Yes, it does annoy me when people just sit there and do nothing. But you can't force them. If they don't have any aspirations, what are you going to do about them? They don't want to work, they don't want to study, they're just bored or suicidal. Taking some time off in the real world I think would be a great idea so they can sort of get a "feel" of how things work and if there is anything they'd like to contribute towards society.
Otherwise, they're just a waste of spots in good schools which many students would do anything to get into.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

I was going to say.... If their parents are "poor", I doubt they'd be able to "slum it", either. On the contrary, their parents would push them to get a job and bring in some extra income into the household, I reckon.

Usually when that's the case the parents are too stupid to 'push' their kids to do anything at all in the first place, starting with school... or not taking drugs... or not having several kids by 19, etc.

But in any case, like I said, if we aren't paying them to stay at home, it shouldn't be any of our business what they do.

Well if you could be bothered (which I can't) I think it'd be fairly easy to construct an argument showing how letting kids do nothing leads to increased criminal activity which impacts communities and therefore us. Or, they go to jail and cost us more than the Youth Allowance amount

 

[bassistx]

Usually when that's the case the parents are too stupid to 'push' their kids to do anything at all in the first place, starting with school... or not taking drugs... or not having several kids by 19, etc.

Poor people are stupid? Poor parents make their kids work hard so they get good grades, go off to uni, and get good jobs. That's how I see it, anyway.
But whether the parents have money or not, we can't just sort of make a generlisation that people with a certain socio-economic background will drop-out and do nothing.

Well if you could be bothered (which I can't) I think it'd be fairly easy to construct an argument showing how letting kids do nothing leads to increased criminal activity which impacts communities and therefore us. Or, they go to jail and cost us more than the Youth Allowance amount

Playstation. I can't be bothered either.

 

[bittersweet787]

I recently got back from Student Exchange in Poland, and over there, you do not complete school until you are 19!!

At first I thought it was pathetic, because Its possible to finish when you are 16 in the territory, and then I relised that it was preposterous!!
By the age of 19, these students have never had a part time job, and have possibly never left home for longer then a week with the rellies...

The students are inadequitly prepaired for life. In Poland, you turn 19, finish High School and roll straight over into college, or the armed services. there is no gap year, no defering, the students are wrapped in bubble wrap until the age of 25.

I I know australia would never end up like that, but I just wanted to point out, that leave school at 18, is much better then 19.

PS Leaving school when I am 18, and it does not bother me in the slighest.

 

[Born2baplacebo]

No way. Then the single 14 yr old mothers have to stay in school.

 

[Smithereens]

Poor people are stupid? Poor parents make their kids work hard so they get good grades, go off to uni, and get good jobs. That's how I see it, anyway.
But whether the parents have money or not, we can't just sort of make a generlisation that people with a certain socio-economic background will drop-out and do nothing.



Playstation. I can't be bothered either.

Have a look at those dole bludgers around Sydney. I don't see them pushing their children hard enough. Maybe to drugs and a shit life, but thats it.

Take a look at the Aborigines. Self-explanatory.

 

[bittersweet787]

there are no single 14 yer old mothers. Poland is a highly catholic country.
but on the plus side, they let you go back and finish high school.
At my school there were even some girls who were married!!

Gtg...Class!!!

 

[Born2baplacebo]

And what have the Polish done lately that was so fucking unreal that we had to conform to a country that originally sucks historically and contemporenously?

 

[bassistx]

Have a look at those dole bludgers around Sydney. I don't see them pushing their children hard enough. Maybe to drugs and a shit life, but thats it.

Have you actually asked these people if they encourage their kids to take drugs?

Take a look at the Aborigines. Self-explanatory.

We have some "successful" Aboriginals. But like I said earlier some people don't want to study or work - they are just either bored or suicidal. If you're going to say all Aboriginals are "bludgers", then it's also safe for me to say that all Aboriginals suffer from depression. This can really get in the way of study/work/anything in day-to-day life. Why are they drinking the crap out of themselves? I'm sure there's a reason. People drink to forget, to get away. They don't poison themselves everyday for no reason.

I recently got back from Student Exchange in Poland, and over there, you do not complete school until you are 19!!

Same in Italy. I'm thinking a lot of Europe is like this?

PS Leaving school when I am 18, and it does not bother me in the slighest.

Same here.

No way. Then the single 14 yr old mothers have to stay in school.

I'm sure they could organize distance-ed though?

And what have the Polish done lately that was so fucking unreal that we had to conform to a country that originally sucks historically and contemporenously?

lol I like you.