Media Article: School Leaving Age 18 (2 Viewers)

[bassistx]

Why would you bother saying it in the first place if you're then going to post that it was an exaggeration? Why not just post what you really think?

It's beautiful, it's poetic, it comes from a book which I clearly sourced and hey - I even scanned the pages and highlighted! Tell me I'm not going to any efforts to make myself clear.

I didn't take it out of context. You're a twit. I haven't seen your argument as to how sending people overseas to study and see the world is going to broaden their horizons. If they're not academic in any sense and if they're quite content being a blue collar worker, why should they have to go overseas in order to be educated.
Expand on WHAT knowledge? How is going overseas and studying going to expand their knowledge? And knowledge of WHAT?

Firstly, you are assuming that they want to work on the railroad tracks for the rest of their lives without travelling/seeing the world/etc. Secondly, going overseas allows them to see how things work (which procedures and processes etc) are used to achieve the same or better results. It's basically like a "research and development" expedition, you could say. It's very hard to explain this without shoving that book down your throat, I'm afraid. And I don't mean that vindictively. Exposure to other cultures, other ways of doing things, etc. broaden your scope. This is undeniable. Especially in global marketing, you must be careful: what is acceptable in Australia may not be in Japan, for example.
Again, it's hard to relate this particular issue to blue-collar workers without some thorough reading so you won't understand what I'm trying to say and just say "fuck, you're dumb". So I'll just add it to the tally already.

 

[bassistx]

brain development

Definitions of brain development on the Web:

• [SIZE=-1]
• Brain development is a lifelong event. Maturation of individual brain structures occur variably over the first two decades life. ...
  www.chironeurology.com/Terms.html[/SIZE]

risk management

Definition of risk management

So from a "risk management" perspective, you may be right. But as for maturity, it requires a brain.

maturity

Definitions of maturity on the Web:

• [SIZE=-1]
• adulthood: the period of time in your life after your physical growth has stopped and you are fully developed
• state of being mature; full development
• the date on which a financial obligation must be repaid
  wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE]

 

[lala2]

The mandated increase of the drinking age is a Federal Labor idea, and defence (I assume this is what you mean by security) is a Federal issue, not state. Love the constitution! I have to ask though, what is your reasoning for not wanting this to go ahead?

Nah, I meant police. My reasoning is simply that if people don't want to be there, we're wasting their time especially if their aim was just to go straight into full-time work or get vocational training, which benefits society.

btw, with the car issue...you can get a good second hand car for a few grand, and if they're working full time or at least raking in the money part-time, they'd be able to keep up the maintenance and petrol costs quite readily I'd think. If you can drive manual, you'd be able to get an even cheaper price I think.

 

[williamc]

You have obviously never been on a building site with qualified builders and carpenters. Oddly enough you need to be literate to read and draw plans and having seen the amount of concentration it takes to cement a slab with a 2-5mm tolerance... well, you're an idiot.

Roofing in 3rd year capentry is somewhere equivilant to year 11 2 unit maths (without any calulus). Luckily tafe teachers, recognising the skills shortages, help out the students that are willing to learn by actually writing the answers on the board after the test all the student has to say is "ohhhhhh i get it now
' and the tacher gives you more marks so you can pass. Happened to my mate.

 

[boris]

Roofing in 3rd year capentry is somewhere equivilant to year 11 2 unit maths (without any calulus). Luckily tafe teachers, recognising the skills shortages, help out the students that are willing to learn by actually writing the answers on the board after the test all the student has to say is "ohhhhhh i get it now
' and the tacher gives you more marks so you can pass. Happened to my mate.

Before my dad went into farming he was a qualified builder/carpenter. I had no idea what was involved until I saw it first hand.

I would hate to see what our houses would look like if all our builders and carpenters were illiterate!

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I honestly don't understand how this argument could have raged on for 6 pages guys. It's pretty simple. If we make students stay in the school system who do not want to be there, are not learning well in the current set up (curriculum, school structure, etc) and want to leave school before they complete year 12 to join the workforce or take up TAFE training, an apprenticeship, or anything else, then we are doing those kids a disservice.

Students need motivation to learn. If the motivation is not there, if despite efforts of teachers and parents it is not forthcoming, if they would be happier outside of a school setting, then Christ, why not just let them leave?

I know it's a cliched expression. But it's so true. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Same sort of thing applies here. You can keep kids in school until the day they die, it's not going to have any positive effect if the students do not want to be there.

 

[williamc]

I honestly don't understand how this argument could have raged on for 6 pages guys. It's pretty simple. If we make students stay in the school system who do not want to be there, are not learning well in the current set up (curriculum, school structure, etc) and want to leave school before they complete year 12 to join the workforce or take up TAFE training, an apprenticeship, or anything else, then we are doing those kids a disservice.

Students need motivation to learn. If the motivation is not there, if despite efforts of teachers and parents it is not forthcoming, if they would be happier outside of a school setting, then Christ, why not just let them leave?

I know it's a cliched expression. But it's so true. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Same sort of thing applies here. You can keep kids in school until the day they die, it's not going to have any positive effect if the students do not want to be there.

what we are arguing about, is whether people are better off completing their HSC anyway irregardless off their intentions. I and im pretty sure boris are both against forcing students to complete their HSC, but would it benefit students/ would it do them any immense wrong-doings to complete those extra 2 years?

Imo, they should just do their HSC anyway.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

what we are arguing about, is whether people are better off completing their HSC anyway irregardless off their intentions. I and im pretty sure boris are both against forcing students to complete their HSC, but would it benefit students/ would it do them any immense wrong-doings to complete those extra 2 years?

Imo, they should just do their HSC anyway.

I think, if the student doesn't want to complete his or her HSC, has plans that don't include it and isn't going to use it for anything, then it's a pointless exercise.

Completing an extra two years of school when you neither need nor want to just for the sake of an extra bit of paper is absurd. That's like saying I should spend an extra year at uni doing honours, just so I can say I've done honours, even though I'm not going to use that extra year for anything productive and could have graduated and gone into the workforce quite well without it. See?

 

[williamc]

I think, if the student doesn't want to complete his or her HSC, has plans that don't include it and isn't going to use it for anything, then it's a pointless exercise.

Completing an extra two years of school when you neither need nor want to just for the sake of an extra bit of paper is absurd. That's like saying I should spend an extra year at uni doing honours, just so I can say I've done honours, even though I'm not going to use that extra year for anything productive and could have graduated and gone into the workforce quite well without it. See?

My dad did honours and never used it (worked in a completely different field to the degree). He still said that extra one year is insignificant in the whole scheme of your life, also when you are 50 are you going to remember spending one more year at uni?

See you are making judgements from a short-term point of view. If you go talk to a professional well into their career im pretty sure most will agree with me.

Anyway, each to their own.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

My dad did honours and never used it (worked in a completely different field to the degree). He still said that extra one year is insignificant in the whole scheme of your life, also when you are 50 are you going to remember spending one more year at uni?

See you are making judgements from a short-term point of view. If you go talk to a professional well into their career im pretty sure most will agree with me.

Anyway, each to their own.

Hm, maybe you're right about the whole long-term thing. But I'm not sure if I think it's worth the stress (to a reluctant student) of staying in school for longer than they need to. They might not think much of it when they're older but that's still two years of their lives they wasted. If they stay in school, there's two years down the drain (which they may or may not remember come retirement). If they leave and do what they want to do, there's two productive years to start off their career.

Two years might be nothing but you only live once. I'd rather spend my time doing what's most productive for me rather than wasting time on crap.

 

[williamc]

Hm, maybe you're right about the whole long-term thing. But I'm not sure if I think it's worth the stress (to a reluctant student) of staying in school for longer than they need to. They might not think much of it when they're older but that's still two years of their lives they wasted. If they stay in school, there's two years down the drain (which they may or may not remember come retirement). If they leave and do what they want to do, there's two productive years to start off their career.

Two years might be nothing but you only live once. I'd rather spend my time doing what's most productive for me rather than wasting time on crap.

Yer i see what you are saying, but then again consider in those extra 2 years the possible benefits you would have achieved. As i mentioned before; maturity, Provisional drivers license (AND A FUCKING CAR), and you would have further developed bonds with mates that you will keep for the rest of your life. I dunno about you, but year 12 was the best year of my life to date.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Yer i see what you are saying, but then again consider in those extra 2 years the possible benefits you would have achieved. As i mentioned before; maturity, Provisional drivers license (AND A FUCKING CAR), and you would have further developed bonds with mates that you will keep for the rest of your life. I dunno about you, but year 12 was the best year of my life to date.

Oh year 12 was awesome I won't deny that.

But maturity is not developed exclusively in a school setting. There's no evidence to suggest you're more mature if you stay in school.

School doesn't have anything to do with getting your licence either. I know what you're saying about being independent re: transport when you enter the workforce if you stay to year 12, but really, that would only be important to kids who live in the absolute boondocks with no public transport. Heaps of people get to work/uni/everywhere without a car, I do.

The friendship thing is a valid point. I havent stayed in contact with any of my friends who left school early. But then, that's a choice you have to make, I guess. It's up to the individual in the end.

 

[williamc]

Oh year 12 was awesome I won't deny that.

But maturity is not developed exclusively in a school setting. There's no evidence to suggest you're more mature if you stay in school.

School doesn't have anything to do with getting your licence either. I know what you're saying about being independent re: transport when you enter the workforce if you stay to year 12, but really, that would only be important to kids who live in the absolute boondocks with no public transport. Heaps of people get to work/uni/everywhere without a car, I do.

The friendship thing is a valid point. I havent stayed in contact with any of my friends who left school early. But then, that's a choice you have to make, I guess. It's up to the individual in the end.

Yer i see what you are saying.

Have to stop arguing though i gotta start 2 online tests due in 3 hours 38 minutes.

 

[bassistx]

Oh shit because it's so hard to get a fucking part time job while you're at school.

I'm such a moron as are my friends because we can't get jobs. Oh boo hoo.
If you don't have a job, your parents have to pay for your car. It's that fucking simple and my point was that not all parents are prepared to pay for their kids' cars + expenses.

My dad did honours and never used it (worked in a completely different field to the degree). He still said that extra one year is insignificant in the whole scheme of your life, also when you are 50 are you going to remember spending one more year at uni?

See you are making judgements from a short-term point of view. If you go talk to a professional well into their career im pretty sure most will agree with me.

Anyway, each to their own.

When you're 50 you might not care. When you're 25, I'm sure you'll give a fuck.

Yer i see what you are saying.

Un-fucking-believable.
The same shit passes through her lips (keyboard) and you take it, just because. LKJHB3W4?%i23U45OI3Y45UI3GC AD HOMINEM LIKE IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. I give up with you jerks.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

get the fuck off bos and go study for ur hsc slut

 

[advanced sam]

jesus

 

[boris]

If you don't have a job, your parents have to pay for your car. It's that fucking simple and my point was that not all parents are prepared to pay for their kids' cars + expenses.

No they don't have to pay for a car. You can go fucking carless until you get off your arse and get a part time job to pay for one. I know kids whose parents were financially able to buy their kids a car and didn't, they made the kid get a job and atleast pay HALF WAY.

Un-fucking-believable.
The same shit passes through her lips (keyboard) and you take it, just because. LKJHB3W4?%i23U45OI3Y45UI3GC AD HOMINEM LIKE IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. I give up with you jerks.
_______

Doris is infinitely better at articulating her argument than you, and comes off as less of a know it all fucking slag.

 

[Graney]

I'm such a moron as are my friends because we can't get jobs. Oh boo hoo.

But you could get a job? Many of my mates earnt $6-8000 during their HSC year.

 

[boris]

But you could get a job? Many of my mates earnt $6-8000 during their HSC year.

Holy crap! That's enough to buy like, 6 $1000 cars!

 

[bassistx]

Erm, we can't get jobs for some unknown reason. We try, we fail. That means we have no income and it's up to our parents to pay. End of story.

If I was bothered, I'd go back and count how many times I said "it's no use keeping them in school if they don't want to be". How poorly articulated my argument was, how poorly indeed....

Studied 6 hours yesterday and I don't have school today. Wednesday is party day.