Muhammad Cartoon Controversy (2 Viewers)

[SashatheMan]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

i love the sign saying

"freedom can go to hell"

 

[Simpson Freak]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Isn't this beautiful, you can offend over a billion people, stereotype and generalise, and yet come off as a freedom fighter, the little engine that could and the little guy thats the underdog.

The fact is the cartoonists and the newspaper are trying to hide behind somantics, they are trying to make people think they are on the side of freedom, democracy and the good.

Its true that satirical cartoons are widespread, but its stupid to think "free speech" is a blank cheque where we can offend and label whoever we want.

people would be outraged about a cartoon that depicted all african americans as criminals just because a lot of them are in US prisons.

the pentagon called a cartoon satirising donald rumsfeld "beyond tasteless" because it had a mamed US marine. Now howcome we cant say the same thing about this cartoon.

even if it is satire, the fact that you can like muhammad to modern terrorists simply labels every single muslim as a terrorist.

its easy for many of you to say "go fuck yourselves....blah blah blah....freedom of speech!" but you are only saying that because it is the muslims being insulted here.

if it was some other issue the civil liberalists would be jumping up and down, i mean after all that priests abusing young altar boys, what if i made a cartoon depicting mathew, mark, luke and john abusing little children while writing the bible. i would offend a billion christians and my cartoon would be called tasteless and rude, and no matter how much i said "free speech", they understandably say i cant villify christians.

heck jews were angry about the passion of the christ, they said it was anti-semetic, we didnt see the same level of involvment as now, no one said "fuck you jews....free speech"

John Laws was in trouble for vilifying that carson dude from queer eye. i mean the guy acts like a pansy and is for some reason offended by being called a pansy?
where was free speech in that?

just because a bunch of violent ass holes in the 20/21st century commits terrorism, why must we liken him to someone from the 7th, particularly when the majority of muslims denounce the actions of the terrorists,

relations between the middle east and the west is shaky enough without tomorows Al-jazeera broadcast saying " West calls mohammad, and thus all his followers, a TERRORIST".
You people are forgetting that the point of view of these middle easterners who already are suspicious of the west, will basically think that they are seen with utter contempt.

What type of freedom do we have, if i will get labelled as terrorist simply because of some newspaper cartoon.

I mean WAKE UP !!!!!!

The way the cartoonists are hiding behind "freedom" is the same way george bush wants to call "THE DOMESTIC SPYING PROGRAM" a better name of "TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM"

"It would be wiser if more Muslims reacted to this situation with calm, rather than mass protests, death threats and the general inciting of more hatred."

well like i said above, its easier for I as muslim living in a western society to stay calm and not put much thought to it, like my friends, who just think its stupid, but not as stupid as the cartoonists trying to hide behind the word "freedom!" to make what they did right. however to people who are blocked off from globalisation, they just see disdain coming from denmark, and atleast deporting the dannish officials from their country and stopping trade with them prompted some much needed, though hollow, apologies.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

But in which of the above cases was there violence?

Anti semitism in arab cartoons

 

[banco55]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Isn't this beautiful, you can offend over a billion people, stereotype and generalise, and yet come off as a freedom fighter, the little engine that could and the little guy thats the underdog.

The fact is the cartoonists and the newspaper are trying to hide behind somantics, they are trying to make people think they are on the side of freedom, democracy and the good.

Its true that satirical cartoons are widespread, but its stupid to think "free speech" is a blank cheque where we can offend and label whoever we want.

people would be outraged about a cartoon that depicted all african americans as criminals just because a lot of them are in US prisons.

the pentagon called a cartoon satirising donald rumsfeld "beyond tasteless" because it had a mamed US marine. Now howcome we cant say the same thing about this cartoon.

even if it is satire, the fact that you can like muhammad to modern terrorists simply labels every single muslim as a terrorist.

its easy for many of you to say "go fuck yourselves....blah blah blah....freedom of speech!" but you are only saying that because it is the muslims being insulted here.

if it was some other issue the civil liberalists would be jumping up and down, i mean after all that priests abusing young altar boys, what if i made a cartoon depicting mathew, mark, luke and john abusing little children while writing the bible. i would offend a billion christians and my cartoon would be called tasteless and rude, and no matter how much i said "free speech", they understandably say i cant villify christians.

heck jews were angry about the passion of the christ, they said it was anti-semetic, we didnt see the same level of involvment as now, no one said "fuck you jews....free speech"

John Laws was in trouble for vilifying that carson dude from queer eye. i mean the guy acts like a pansy and is for some reason offended by being called a pansy?
where was free speech in that?

just because a bunch of violent ass holes in the 20/21st century commits terrorism, why must we liken him to someone from the 7th, particularly when the majority of muslims denounce the actions of the terrorists,

relations between the middle east and the west is shaky enough without tomorows Al-jazeera broadcast saying " West calls mohammad, and thus all his followers, a TERRORIST".
You people are forgetting that the point of view of these middle easterners who already are suspicious of the west, will basically think that they are seen with utter contempt.

What type of freedom do we have, if i will get labelled as terrorist simply because of some newspaper cartoon.

I mean WAKE UP !!!!!!

The way the cartoonists are hiding behind "freedom" is the same way george bush wants to call "THE DOMESTIC SPYING PROGRAM" a better name of "TERRORIST SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM"

"It would be wiser if more Muslims reacted to this situation with calm, rather than mass protests, death threats and the general inciting of more hatred."

well like i said above, its easier for I as muslim living in a western society to stay calm and not put much thought to it, like my friends, who just think its stupid, but not as stupid as the cartoonists trying to hide behind the word "freedom!" to make what they did right. however to people who are blocked off from globalisation, they just see disdain coming from denmark, and atleast deporting the dannish officials from their country and stopping trade with them prompted some much needed, though hollow, apologies.

You seem to be missing the point. If a cartoon with say a priest molesting a child was printed the Church could send letters to the editor etc. But that's about all they can do in a democracy. Incidentally if you ever watch southpark you'll see that they quite gratuitously insult the catholic church and Jesus is a recurring character. I have no objection to muslims saying it's in poor taste and writing letters to the newspaper demanding that the editor be fired etc. But the muslims have gone far beyond that. There have been bomb threats, europeans taken hostage, demands that the cartoonists be executed etc. The same thing happened with the Satanic Verses. Remember a fatwa was placed on Rushdie?

 

[Simpson Freak]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Anyway, on another note, i believe that if Muslims would ever want to honour Muhammad, violence is the last thing he would want them to start.

Its their human nature, not their religion that would make them make such violent signs.

Think about it, the same way some ignorant non-muslims think muslims are out to get them, muslims (even if they live in a western country) think that non-muslims are out to get them.

The same way its funny that their was a sign saying "freedom go to hell", its just as amussing that when people publish a cartoon that labels over a billion people as terrorists, they are surprised and outraged when a minority of those billion people commit acts of terrorism. Is it right to commit such acts? NO. But does that mean labelling over a billion people as a terrorist is an act of demonstrating freedom? NO.

i especially liked the way americans can call joining another country's civil war (vietnam), "fighting for freedom".

but my favourite line is in the episode of the simpsons where they were imprisoned, "YOU ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE YOU HATE FREEDOM"
theres also mr burns' "OPPRESSION AND HARASSMENT IS A SMALL PRICE TO PAY TO LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE"

 

[tempco]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

You seem to be missing the point. If a cartoon with say a priest molesting a child was printed the Church could send letters to the editor etc. But that's about all they can do in a democracy. Incidentally if you ever watch southpark you'll see that they quite gratuitously insult the catholic church and Jesus is a recurring character. I have no objection to muslims saying it's in poor taste and writing letters to the newspaper demanding that the editor be fired etc. But the muslims have gone far beyond that. There have been bomb threats, europeans taken hostage, demands that the cartoonists be executed etc. The same thing happened with the Satanic Verses. Remember a fatwa was placed on Rushdie?

I would assume that the majority of Muslims realise that bomb threats/hostage situations/etc are wrong. You don't seem to think so though.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Simpson Freak, as much as there are problems with America... If you really want to debate the difference in 'freedom' between America and Iran, I think you're a little misguided.

These protests that have been held accross europe are nothing but hate rally's, there is no real message that I can see.. just a whole lot of hate and calls for death and destruction.

 

[SashatheMan]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

@ Simpson Freak

i dont think Jews did anythign close to what the muslims are doing , when passion of the christ came out.

Newspapers are also regularly posting cathlic and christian satire cartoons, and we never heard anyone get so emotional over them.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/933/cartoon320hm.jpg

It has always been accpeted that its allowed to satire from those topics, but it seems all of a sudden islam cant be touched, because they are a degree above all else. They are not, and hence can be used in a cartoon as much as any other religion or topic.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

http://images.google.com.au/images?...-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wi

The 'Jesus lol' thing has been going on for ages lol

 

[Simpson Freak]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

You seem to be missing the point. If a cartoon with say a priest molesting a child was printed the Church could send letters to the editor etc. But that's about all they can do in a democracy. Incidentally if you ever watch southpark you'll see that they quite gratuitously insult the catholic church and Jesus is a recurring character. I have no objection to muslims saying it's in poor taste and writing letters to the newspaper demanding that the editor be fired etc. But the muslims have gone far beyond that. There have been bomb threats, europeans taken hostage, demands that the cartoonists be executed etc. The same thing happened with the Satanic Verses. Remember a fatwa was placed on Rushdie?

i understand that, i think if you read my previous post, you will realise that i agree with you.

but you have to understand why this has happened....to some narrow minded people living in their own enclosed microcosms, this is basically a declaration of war.

i believe it has placed much responsibility now on religious leaders to ask for calm,

I believe i would like to quote Kofi Annan, "I also respect the right of freedom of speech. But of course freedom of speech is never absolute. It entails responsibility and judgment."

I dont know why so many people such as sasha, would ignore such wise words and instead try to support the bigotry of the danish newspaper.

I watch south park and am aware of what it may say about religion. However it has also made an episode featuring Muhammad. But you didnt see any mass protests or violence threatened. The fact is, they didnt say anything bad about him, he was just a power ranger-esque character. The cartoonists had little regard for the beliefs of many, they basically called a billion people blood thirsty terrorists.

in a world where there are extremists, this cartoon simply fueled and justified violence against innocent civilians.

the following is from a newspaper which makes me happy that there are some people that understand what is the only apt reaction in this situation

Ahmed Abu Laban admitted violent protests would cause "great damage" to Islam.

He added: "I swear in the name of God, I will use everything in my capacity that no violence should come and spread to Scandinavia."

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

the pentagon called a cartoon satirising donald rumsfeld "beyond tasteless" because it had a mamed US marine. Now howcome we cant say the same thing about this cartoon.

And what did the pentagon do? the joint chiefs of staff wrote a letter saying they felt it was in bad taste and that it harmed the paper's credibility. It was NEVER said by any criticis I heard that the cartoonist should be arrested or jailed.

I dont know why so many people such as sasha, would ignore such wise words and instead try to support the bigotry of the danish newspaper.

A big part of it is not support of the paper, but support of the country of Denmark for saying that it wasn't going to restrict what a newspaper could print. Its support for free speech in general. for me, i'd support any view of freedom of speech. the way to counter something you don't like a paper running is to complain to the paper, to boycott the paper, and boycott its advertisers, not to threaten to bomb buildings, demand people be killed, threaten to attack anyone from the same country, and then boycott THE COUNTRY rather than THE PAPER, and try to demand sanctions from the U.N.
The problem is the number of Muslims that are calling for deaths, or feeling that the government should control what people can or can not say. Freedom of speech isn't to protect speech you like, its to protect speech you don't like.


and remember the U.S. ended up in Vietnam due to aid requested by France

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

It is the definition of irony to see muslim protestors saying 'death to free speech' lol

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

well, that and about how they're using sms's to spread word of the boycott of european goods, on phones from europe

 

[Simpson Freak]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

@ Simpson Freak

i dont think Jews did anythign close to what the muslims are doing , when passion of the christ came out.

Newspapers are also regularly posting cathlic and christian satire cartoons, and we never heard anyone get so emotional over them.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/933/cartoon320hm.jpg

It has always been accpeted that its allowed to satire from those topics, but it seems all of a sudden islam cant be touched, because they are a degree above all else. They are not, and hence can be used in a cartoon as much as any other religion or topic.

I am well aware of that, but this is calling over a billion people who dont even know if they are safe near westers being called terrorists.

Its senseless that in an unstable political atmosphere that some oath thought it would be a good idea to insult so many people.

If christians had a problem with the way the prophet jesus was portrayed, then they can protest.

The fact is there are not as many "christian" extremists as there are "muslim" ones. I use quotation marks since its debatable if these extremists actually care what is demanded of them in christianity and islam. So when you insult a population who already have a bunch of nuts that would blow themselves up, it just provides more incentives for them to blow themselves up.

besides, the reason why muslims would be more outraged than a christian for a portrayal of their latest respective prophets is mainly because of the decline in christianity. i guess there would be a time when a crusade or "war against the heathen" would be waged, but such times have passed. However when extremist nuts are saying that the west is against islam, and then when an insult cartoon comes out, and the nuts then say "i told you so", its understandable that there would be anger.

anyway i encourage any christian to protest whenever Jesus is defamed (heck invite muslims to come to, jesus is just as important to us a moses and mohammad and abraham), but just because you dont, doesnt deny us the opportunity to be outraged at such an offensive cartoon.

 

[banco55]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

i understand that, i think if you read my previous post, you will realise that i agree with you.

but you have to understand why this has happened....to some narrow minded people living in their own enclosed microcosms, this is basically a declaration of war.

i believe it has placed much responsibility now on religious leaders to ask for calm,

I believe i would like to quote Kofi Annan, "I also respect the right of freedom of speech. But of course freedom of speech is never absolute. It entails responsibility and judgment."

I dont know why so many people such as sasha, would ignore such wise words and instead try to support the bigotry of the danish newspaper.

I watch south park and am aware of what it may say about religion. However it has also made an episode featuring Muhammad. But you didnt see any mass protests or violence threatened. The fact is, they didnt say anything bad about him, he was just a power ranger-esque character. The cartoonists had little regard for the beliefs of many, they basically called a billion people blood thirsty terrorists.

in a world where there are extremists, this cartoon simply fueled and justified violence against innocent civilians.

the following is from a newspaper which makes me happy that there are some people that understand what is the only apt reaction in this situation

From my understanding the muslims aren't pissed so much because one of the cartoons portrayed Muhammad as a terrorist they are pissed that muhammad was portrayed at all as they consider it idoltary. Remember this all started when a danish children's book writer coudn't find an illustrator for her book because Muhummad had a cameo. A newspaper editor heard about it and commissioned cartoons of muhummad.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

I am well aware of that, but this is calling over a billion people who dont even know if they are safe near westers being called terrorists.

Its senseless that in an unstable political atmosphere that some oath thought it would be a good idea to insult so many people.

People insult other people all the time I'm afraid, that's why we actually communicate and don't just worry 24/7 about who will be offended... only governments do that :/

If christians had a problem with the way the prophet jesus was portrayed, then they can protest.

They do protest, some of them are almost as kooky as you muslims... most christians are extremely moderate by comparison tho.

I use quotation marks since its debatable if these extremists actually care what is demanded of them in christianity and islam. So when you insult a population who already have a bunch of nuts that would blow themselves up, it just provides more incentives for them to blow themselves up.

So we should just tip toe around these people? That really works real well doesn't it... I mean europe has been so great to muslim people and look at how they are being repayed.

besides, the reason why muslims would be more outraged than a christian for a portrayal of their latest respective prophets is mainly because of the decline in christianity. i guess there would be a time when a crusade or "war against the heathen" would be waged, but such times have passed. However when extremist nuts are saying that the west is against islam, and then when an insult cartoon comes out, and the nuts then say "i told you so", its understandable that there would be anger.

We have the strength to back up our freedom and we will fight for our freedom if need be - this is not a negotiable thing.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

why is it muslims are more offended from a cartoon than they are from groups that use islam as a justifcation for murders? Where were the muslims out protesting bin laden, or demanding gov'ts stop sponsoring terrorism? That creates a more negative view os Islam than any cartoon can.
(Note: aware the idolitry point isn't touched here, just making the poing about terrorists)

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

They do protest, some of them are almost as kooky as you muslims... most christians are extremely moderate by comparison tho.

Examples being, offhand Kevin Smith's Dogma was protested and Disney eventually had a different company distribute, and Monty Python's Life of Brian was not shown in some whole regions of England, I believe, for being.....either blasphamy or herecy. I forget which is against the church.

 

[Simpson Freak]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

It is the definition of irony to see muslim protestors saying 'death to free speech' lol

u wont see me disagreeing with you on that one, seriously if there was any Artificial intelligence created today, that statement would blow its mind.

anyway maybe people feel that simply boycotting the paper wont get the deserved reaction. maybe people feel that the people of denmark now share such an opinion.

well atleast there are many leaders now trying to call for restraint.

but it is a governments duty to ensure that people are not offended by a piece of newsprint. i mean isnt there a code of conduct? we see those adds on tv telling us to write in if we feel something is offensive, sexist or violent?

In conclusion many posters say that the response to the cartoon is not ideal, and you people do realise that many religious leaders are now trying to spread that message around. what more can they do? its up to the individual, and i for one will certainly not do anything violent against europe because of a cartoon, but then what do i matter anyway, you have to talk to those nuts out there....actually it would be far more prudent to not have any close contact with said nuts.....mmmmm the last peanut overflowing with the oils of its departed brothers....

 

[Blissed]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Let's face it guys, everyone has the right to say anything they want because of, what is called, free speech. The Muslims are over reacting but lets not forget they have the right to do whatever they want. If they want to boycott Danish goods, then so be it. Jyllands-Posten does not represent the Danish people nor does it represent the Danish government. It is a totally independant organisation. It's only fair to say terrorists and extremists don't represent Islam nor do they represent the Muslim people. It's not fair to generalize when terrorists and extremits are now officially a threat to Muslim nations, especially places like Kuwait and Saudia Arabia where the war against terrorism is only growing stronger.