Muslim People in Australia (3 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

Going by the responses from Muslims on here, I really am under the impression that they are in denial about the current state of their religion.
None of them on here will admit that it is possible for Muslims in Australia to hate our way of life, because they say Islamic values are much like our own. Instead they trivialise it by saying some Muslims hate our *social* values, ie. going to the pub for a beer.
If they are the values they think Australians hold dear, then maybe they really do need a value education.

If Islam and Western values are so similar, why is there such hatred and violence.

Easy answer - they're not similar.

 

[soha]

im so over it
ofcourse islam is peaceful
dont judge a book by its cover..dont judge a religon by its followers
yeah im muslim but i swear...shit thats bad and soemtimes i may come across as fucking agressive
does that mean islam is not peaceful?
no..islam is ..im just a bit fucked up
dont mind me..although i should set a good example (which i try and do in real life etc but bos just gives me the shits too much)
still..islam in its true essense (and there are many out there who are indeed pious, righteous followers) can demonstrate to you just how peaceful and wonderful islam really is..
but if ur looking at the news trying to find them..or at cronulla beach..maybe even hanging out at makkas on a thursday night..you wont find peaceful muslims
but islam is peaceful

 

[Not-That-Bright]

im so over it
ofcourse islam is peaceful
dont judge a book by its cover..dont judge a religon by its followers

Even if islam is ultimately peaceful in its teachings, what does that matter? I don't really care about that. The people I want to deal with are the people you would say are not correctly following their religion but still call themselves muslims, what should I call this group of people? give me a name. I mean what about christians? Should I not judge their religion based on what christians do? How they act? Should I sit down and read the bible? And Hitler? Should I not base his philosophy on what he did, but on the merits of it that he articulated?

but islam is peaceful

So what? What does that give me for analysis soha? I mean ok Islam is peaceful, so what about all these people whom aren't peaceful and call themselves followers of islam? what are they?

 

[katie_tully]

ofcourse islam is peaceful
dont judge a book by its cover..dont judge a religon by its followers

Soha, that doesn't even make any sense. If we're not supposed to judge the religion by its followers, how are we meant to judge it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Of course, in a sense we should judge the religions based on their philosophy etc... and I'm more than willing to do that also. However, religions are more than just the philosophy of their teachings. It's like for instance studying socialism (the philosophy) and also studying the soviet union (an example of socialism)... while we may not like the soviet union, we still need to study the philosophy if we want to totally disreguard socialism.

Now see, I don't want to totally disreguard islam by attacking its followers, I only want to attack the followers. Now in many ways, I think what is contemporary islam is what the followers have made of it, so in attacking them I am attacking contemporary islam, but I do think it's right to say that doesn't affect the pure philosophy (not that it matters).

 

[katie_tully]

If you call them "extremist muslims" or "fundamentalists", then essentially you are still admitting that Islam promotes violence.

If it does, then how can it be considered peaceful?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well the thing is... what is contemporary islam, is made up by the 'sohas' and the 'zahids'. Now even if the Soha's have an issue with the Zahids, that doesn't matter too much, because for sociological purposes they are all contributing to the category of things which we call 'Islam'.

Now there also is, a pure philisophical school of thought, called Islam.

 

[ccmariners4life]

i think religion is just plain fucked. quite frankly i think that anyone blows him self up for something which doesnt excist is lunacy. GOD IS NOT REAL. GET IT THROUGH YOUT THICK HEADS. jesus and his deciples were clearly pot heads, to think up there garbage they did is actually quite creative though.
death to religion, never did anyone any good did it ??

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i think religion is just plain fucked. quite frankly i think that anyone blows him self up for something which doesnt excist is lunacy. GOD IS NOT REAL. GET IT THROUGH YOUT THICK HEADS. jesus and his deciples were clearly pot heads, to think up there garbage they did is actually quite creative though.
death to religion, never did anyone any good did it ??

oi, what's wrong with pot heads >:/

 

[katie_tully]

...
I'm saying, the "moderate" Muslims promote Islam as peaceful, and say that extremists do not represent their religion.
However, they're still willing to call the extremists "Muslims", because they follow the religion.
If Islam is peaceful, why do extremists feel it necessary to rid the world of infidels? Because Islam is not a peaceful religion. They don't pick it out of the ether, they pick it out of the teachings of Islam.

So Soha isn't going to strap herself to a bomb any time soon, and maybe none of her friends and family are. That doesn't mean Islam does not teach violence towards non Islamics.

 

[soha]

Even if islam is ultimately peaceful in its teachings, what does that matter? I don't really care about that. The people I want to deal with are the people you would say are not correctly following their religion but still call themselves muslims, what should I call this group of people? give me a name. I mean what about christians? Should I not judge their religion based on what christians do? How they act? Should I sit down and read the bible? And Hitler? Should I not base his philosophy on what he did, but on the merits of it that he articulated?



So what? What does that give me for analysis soha? I mean ok Islam is peaceful, so what about all these people whom aren't peaceful and call themselves followers of islam? what are they?

they are called HYPOCRITS
they ar eevn called that in the Qua'ran...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I'm saying, the "moderate" Muslims promote Islam as peaceful, and say that extremists do not represent their religion.
However, they're still willing to call the extremists "Muslims", because they follow the religion.
If Islam is peaceful, why do extremists feel it necessary to rid the world of infidels?

Yea, well it's like I said here;

See they have issues with it, because often at the heart of it I think they sympathise with many of the 'extremists' - they understand why they are bombing people - they know why they're angry... they just choose not to participate in such behaviour themselves. It's like your common racist who may dislike the KKK because they kill people and they have issue with that, but that agree with them on the principle that white people are losing their culture or whatever. It's hard to take a hardline stance against a group of people whom ideologically are very similar to you, just practice it in different ways.

Another example would be greenies and the animal liberation front... they agree with them ideologically, that animals need to be saved etc, but disagree with their methods. That disagreement isn't enough for them to feel comfortable totally condemning the animal liberation front.

http://community.boredofstudies.org/2287540/post-1282.html

Because Islam is not a peaceful religion. They don't pick it out of the ether, they pick it out of the teachings of Islam.

Yea, I'm not disagreeing with you really. But just because someone reads something and interprets it in a good/bad way, doesn't make either right. The analysis of the actual islamic texts, is a different coversation I think to one about islam, because contemporary islam is more than just the texts.

they are called HYPOCRITS
they ar eevn called that in the Qua'ran...

Yea ok, but the thing is it's really hard to work out what the Qu'ran really means... now what we do instead of just saying 'these people are real muslims, these are not' is we say basically 'anyone whom believes muhammed was the last prophet of god, is a muslim', beyond that we can break them up into other little categories if we want... but essentially the 'hypocrits' whether you like it or not, do form a part of what your contemporary religion is in society, much like how rapist priests are a part of the catholic religion.

 

[soha]

Soha, that doesn't even make any sense. If we're not supposed to judge the religion by its followers, how are we meant to judge it?

wtf ..learnign about the religon
reading the quaran and hadith and studying it in its true essense its called research....
derr
yeah muslims are supposed to be good followers and u shoudl be able to judge islam byt them..but you simply cant
just like u cnat judge christians by child molesting preists or whatever

 

[katie_tully]

Don't kid yourself Soha.
I'm guessing those with extremist views number somewhere in the millions. A million people cannot merely be "hypocrits"

 

[soha]

Don't kid yourself Soha.
I'm guessing those with extremist views number somewhere in the millions. A million people cannot merely be "hypocrits"

um yes they can
out of 1.5 billion muslism im sure 1 million can
anyone is a hypocrit if they say islam this islam that then they dont even practice what they preach
liek me..ive been a hypocrit for ages
i was all like yeah islam is the best but i didnt even wear hejab
i was a huge hypocrit promoting it but not following it
now thankfully i wear hejab but i was still a hypocrit like many others

 

[katie_tully]

wtf ..learnign about the religon
reading the quaran and hadith and studying it in its true essense its called research....
derr
yeah muslims are supposed to be good followers and u shoudl be able to judge islam byt them..but you simply cant
just like u cnat judge christians by child molesting preists or whatever

Then what is that saying, Soha. Is it saying something about the religion, or the followers. This is not merely a case of a few people doing something wrong.
If we cannot use the followers of a religion to get a good indication of what the religion is about, then what is the point?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

just like u cnat judge christians by child molesting preists or whatever

Well actually, you can... and should :/ of course if it was child molesting followers, i'd be less inclined to judge the religion based on that (unless there was a particularily high number), but the thing about priests being child molestors is actually partially caused by the system the church had in place. By the way, you used the word 'christians', now I do think it's wrong to judge ALL muslims by the actions of some, however what we're talking about here is the religion not other members of the religion...

 

[katie_tully]

um yes they can
out of 1.5 billion muslism im sure 1 million can
anyone is a hypocrit if they say islam this islam that then they dont even practice what they preach
liek me..ive been a hypocrit for ages
i was all like yeah islam is the best but i didnt even wear hejab
i was a huge hypocrit promoting it but not following it
now thankfully i wear hejab but i was still a hypocrit like many others

So by wearing the hijab, you consider yourself a better Muslim?

 

[Comrade nathan]

Haven't you people yet figured out religion is subject to politics?

 

[soha]

So by wearing the hijab, you consider yourself a better Muslim?

im not a hypocrit anymore
whats the point in me choosing a lifestyle and a set of beliefs but not even following or living by the belief and guidelines that are set out for me?
whats the point in me defending them if i dont follow them?
i believe by wearing hejab i am far more a better muslim then i was when i didnt wear it.. so yes
however i dont believe im a better muslim then anyone else..im just a better muslim then i was before i wore hejab..and we can even say a better person..hejab doenst even have anything to do with islam for me..because belief is in the heart and mind and not necessarily represented by the outer image of one...(actions are different tho)
you can be a total slut and wear hejab and you can be a beautiful pure person and not wear it etc..hejab has allowed me to be a better person.
so yeah