Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[Kulazzi]

yeah, my point was that it doesnt make them less muslim, they mite still practice the religious beelifs and stuff (praying, rammadan etc) but i dont think that not wearing the hijab means they are less religious. But yeah, i heard that u shouldnt ask a chik y shes not wearing it (coz its heaps offensive)

true. Some girls' carry out religious duties but they don't wear the headscarf (personal reasoning). On that note, I'd like to say that I've seen some girls' with the headscarf on, yet they don't do anything - no praying, no fasting - so you see how much of a difference it can make. It seems ironic doesn't it?

yeah, you shouldn't really ask why she doesn't wear it, not because it's offensive, but maybe because they may be too...not shy but awkward in answering that question.

 

[Kulazzi]

lol. Muslims are so concerned about modesty and not wanting to arouse men in ways like this ^^. Why not just pray alone or something? Or if men see women without their scarf and become aroused, can't the women just say no?

And if god is considered omni-present (as he is in christianity) why do you need to do a prayer ceremony at all?

some women do pray alone. It's not compulsory for women to pray in the mosque (it is however strongly recommended for men, especially for Friday prayers).

If a man does see a woman (who he knows) without a scarf then most likely the man would lower his gaze and turn away and the woman will run off in the opposite direction (obviously both embarrassed ). I don't understand what you mean by the woman saying no? Do you mean that she can tell him off for seeing her without her scarf on?

Prayer is just a reminder who God is and this one of the times that we can ask for forgiveness, to remember the poor, his guidance etc. etc. mainly just like Christians do at Church (and before bed i think)

 

[Scanorama]

some women do pray alone. It's not compulsory for women to pray in the mosque (it is however strongly recommended for men, especially for Friday prayers).

If a man does see a woman (who he knows) without a scarf then most likely the man would lower his gaze and turn away and the woman will run off in the opposite direction (obviously both embarrassed ). I don't understand what you mean by the woman saying no? Do you mean that she can tell him off for seeing her without her scarf on?

I think Anti-Mathmite meant if the muslim man sees the muslim woman without the scarf and got turned on and try to kiss her or something like that, can't the woman just say no and the man backs off?

Prayer is just a reminder who God is and this one of the times that we can ask for forgiveness, to remember the poor, his guidance etc. etc. mainly just like Christians do at Church (and before bed i think)

Christians don't necessary have to pray at church or before bed, in fact we can pray whenever and wherever we want, so we can pray while we are in the toliet, shower, dinners, bushwalking, before bed, after bed etc etc.

 

[Kulazzi]

I think Anti-Mathmite meant if the muslim man sees the muslim woman without the scarf and got turned on and try to kiss her or something like that, can't the woman just say no and the man backs off?

yes, the woman can say no and the man is supposed to back off for obious reasons

Christians don't necessary have to pray at church or before bed, in fact we can pray whenever and wherever we want, so we can pray while we are in the toliet, shower, dinners, bushwalking, before bed, after bed etc etc.

thanks for the clarification. Same with Muslims, I guess you can say that doing the actual physical praying is more formal

 

[soha]

today my non muslim friends will see me in hejab for the first time
i havent told them yet
so it will be funny to see what they say and how they react
ofcourse they wont care coz they love me with our without a headscalf

 

[physician]

Alhamdulillah, Congratulations Soha!

May Allah ease ur path in this World and in the hearafter, Ameen.

Its great to hear uve taken up the Hijab, Alhamdulillah!

 

[Generator]

yes, the woman can say no and the man is supposed to back off for obious reasons

I have never been able to understand the argument that seems to suggest that the headscarf acts in a way much like an anti-missile defense system - what is it about a piece of cloth that will keep a man with no sense of respect away? Why must it be up to the woman to 'account' for the actions of such a man? Why can we not focus upon such men and press home the point that no means no?

I know that I have asked such questions before (and in a much more constructive manner, too), but I'd still like a response if anyone feels the need.

---

Costello to violent Muslims: get out

Keep in mind that isn't exactly out of the blue - Costello has made similar (if not near identical) statements before.

Trad hits back at 'Islamophobia'

 

[hYperTrOphY]

what do you do with your gold and jewels
diamonds rubys and money?
your most vaulable posessions..your keycards and passwords pin numbers and credit cards..all your wealth?


you put it away keep it safe and hidden..keep it covered ...no one sees it and touches it except you
its private and no one has the right to have it but you

well in islam women are MORE precious then all your posessions and money and gold..in islam we are more vaulable women in islam do not belong to anyone ..we are a more valuable and treasured creation of Allah swt ..so we cover up..we keep safe and hidden ...we protect ourselves from other people
we also preserve our beauty
our inner beauty..so we are not judged by our physical appearance..we are equal ...we also believe in modesty and self respect..our bodys belong to us and we have the right to keep it to ourselves
i am not a piece of meat for some gronk to eye out...

Whilst I unfortunately don't own any gold, jewels, diamonds or rubys, I do keep my PIN safe/hidden. However, this decision is due to the consequence of not keeping it secret - which is, of course, the fact that its revelation would result it me losing my money (the little which I have).

I still don't understand how you arguing that Islamic women are precious is justification that they should cover up. You mentioned protection - protection from what may I ask? You also mentioned the preservation of your beauty - may I also ask how wearing a scarf preserves your beauty?

You then go on to say how it prevents people from 'eyeing you out'. Once again, I cannot seem to fathom this notion. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the top of a girl's head/neck all that sexually arousing [although I could think of a humourous joke RE: oral sex]... You could prevent guys from lusting over you just by covering your body, I don't see the need to cover your head/neck as well.

Hopefully you can help clarify it for me?

 

[Benny1103]

In this case I agree with you. A piece of cloth is not a missile defence system and it will not keep a rapist away. However, different people will have different customs and beliefs. I don't see how you can really question such things. In particular, its like male feminists *cough* who believe that men are responsible for all sexual misconduct. It's a completely retarded belief in my eyes. But someone else's opinion might just be that the man is always responsible and I should respect that it is their opinion. The point is that as long as someone's customs don't hurt you in some tangible way then why question it?

 

[Generator]

So a man isn't the one at fault if he carries on after a woman has said no, benny?

As for questioning such practices, we aren't going to get anywhere if we don't question each other.

 

[Benny1103]

That's just a side issue to illustrate my point but it can be pursued further if you wish. Yes if a man rapes a woman it is his fault. I didn't consider my choice of wording carefully enough. It was my intention to allude to broader contexts such as (non-rape) pregnancies - whether they be wanted or unwanted. In those cases, not the man's fault. But again, that is a side issue. The purpose of which is to illustrate that people will certainly have different opinions on such an issue, and intense questioning of a person's beliefs on such an issue are not really necessary.

Questioning beliefs is fine. But I just don't see the need for continual probing questions on fundamental beliefs when they don't even cause harm to people.

 

[Generator]

Whether they cause harm or not is open to interpretation. In an Australian context, they shouldn't cause much harm, although I do think that the oft-stated rationale behind the headscarf (that it's a 'preventative measure') is quite warped. That it's an expression of faith I cannot and will not deny, but there are other notions at play in this instance.

With respct to questioning another person's beliefs or opinions, I don't see what's wrong with an at times intense practice - more often than not it benefits all involved. That said, at times it can be taken too far (such as when the questioner is being quite abusive and/or leading), but as far as I'm concerned this isn't one of those times.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Benny, they do harm people.

- We're empathetic, we can see the road this is leading the people down and we don't think it's the right road.

- Enforcing a belief that to wear the veil shows modesty and keeps away rapists or whatever... means that when they see a girl who is not wearing a veil and is perhaps unmodest they will assume she's a slut or a less worthy person.

 

[Kulazzi]

I have never been able to understand the argument that seems to suggest that the headscarf acts in a way much like an anti-missile defense system - what is it about a piece of cloth that will keep a man with no sense of respect away? Why must it be up to the woman to 'account' for the actions of such a man? Why can we not focus upon such men and press home the point that no means no?

When is the woman 'account' for the actions of the man? Do you mean that if she doesn't have the headscarf on, then it is her fault and her responsibility if the man sees her without one? Not necesserily, the only time that a female does not wear her headscarf is when she is at home. Not many men visit the house however if the family is hosting a dinner party then obviously the girl has to wear a headscarf. If the girl has a brother and he has friends coming oer her house, then

1) Her brother should explain to his friend the situation ie his friend is not allowed to go into his sister's bedroom, they may only study in his room or the lounge room
2) Some girl's do wear the hijab around the house during the day in case there are any unexpected visits (eg, door to door salesman)
3) Some girls' have one of those pull-on Hijabs (ie there are no pins to fasten it or anything, it's already ready-made) and just pull that on quickly if there is someone unexpected

I still don't understand how you arguing that Islamic women are precious is justification that they should cover up. You mentioned protection - protection from what may I ask? You also mentioned the preservation of your beauty - may I also ask how wearing a scarf preserves your beauty?

You then go on to say how it prevents people from 'eyeing you out'. Once again, I cannot seem to fathom this notion. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the top of a girl's head/neck all that sexually arousing [although I could think of a humourous joke RE: oral sex]... You could prevent guys from lusting over you just by covering your body, I don't see the need to cover your head/neck as well.

Hopefully you can help clarify it for me?

Some guys are sexually aroused by the head neck eg. omg, that girl has lovely, thick, black hair. I just want to run my hand through her hair. Her skin is creamy smooth, how I wish I can run my lips down her neck

Of course it's a generalisation. But some guys do.

 

[SashatheMan]

Catholic protest Vs Muslim protest

Recently There was gonna be a Southpark episode shown On different tv Networks." The episode shows a statue of the Virgin Mary spurting menstrual blood on the Pope."

It was shown in New Zealand on Wednesday night, prompting a vigil by hundreds of Catholics outside broadcaster TV Works. Despite the protest, 200,000 New Zealanders watched the program, six times the usual audience.

This is the video of the catholic protest.

http://g6publish.videodome.com/news.../videoplayer/?channel=World+News&clipid=71340

As many have predicted , cathlics didnt destroy public property, didnt kill anyone, didnt fire bomb any embassies, but protested peacefully.


Now lets Think back to when the muhammad cartoon was shown and the muslim reactiion

this is a video of the protests
Click Here


.
Just shows that muslims are more violent and angry then cathlics or any other group of people.

Its not an excuse for muslims to claim that portraying muhammad in a cartoon is justifyable for such anger.

 

[Generator]

When is the woman 'account' for the actions of the man? Do you mean that if she doesn't have the headscarf on, then it is her fault and her responsibility if the man sees her without one? Not necesserily, the only time that a female does not wear her headscarf is when she is at home. Not many men visit the house however if the family is hosting a dinner party then obviously the girl has to wear a headscarf. If the girl has a brother and he has friends coming oer her house, then

1) Her brother should explain to his friend the situation ie his friend is not allowed to go into his sister's bedroom, they may only study in his room or the lounge room
2) Some girl's do wear the hijab around the house during the day in case there are any unexpected visits (eg, door to door salesman)
3) Some girls' have one of those pull-on Hijabs (ie there are no pins to fasten it or anything, it's already ready-made) and just pull that on quickly if there is someone unexpected

To be perfectly honest, that in no way addressed any of my questions.

By 'accounting' for a man's actions, I was referring to the notion that the headscarf 'protects' a woman from any unwanted attentions, that rather than press home the point that men should properly respect women and their right to express themselves freely, it suggests that a woman rather than the man should account for these actions by covering up and removing the 'temptation' from sight.

Just for the record, I am not opposed to the headscarf as an item of free expression, I am merely opposed to the way in which it is championed by many.

 

[Kulazzi]

To be perfectly honest, that in no way addressed any of my questions.

By 'accounting' for a man's actions, I was referring to the notion that the headscarf 'protects' a woman from any unwanted attentions, that rather than press home the point that men should properly respect women and their right to express themselves freely, it suggests that a woman rather than the man should account for these actions by covering up and removing the 'temptation' from sight.

Just for the record, I am not opposed to the headscarf as an item of free expression, I am merely opposed to the way in which it is championed by many.

oh sorry, I must've enormously misunderstood you!!

Now I understand what you're trying to say. So you're saying basically, that the woman should not need to cover up? That is your view. Some Muslim girls even feel that way themsleves hence why they don't wear the Hijab.

 

[Generator]

oh sorry, I must've enormously misunderstood you!!

Now I understand what you're trying to say. So you're saying basically, that the woman should not need to cover up? That is your view. Some Muslim girls even feel that way themsleves hence why they don't wear the Hijab.

Not a problem.

Yes, that's my stance.

 

[hYperTrOphY]

Some guys are sexually aroused by the head neck eg. omg, that girl has lovely, thick, black hair. I just want to run my hand through her hair. Her skin is creamy smooth, how I wish I can run my lips down her neck

Of course it's a generalisation. But some guys do.

Some guys will find a woman's hands, eyes, lips also attractive/arousing - are you going to wear gloves, sunglasses etc to cover those up too?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

A federal election must be looming.

First Danna Vail makes anti-islamic comments, and now peter costello.

They are trying to appease conservative people (why though? ) They spend 3.5 out of 4 years not saying anything on the issue, whilst silently working against what their aura suggests) and half a year out of 4 years acting conservative (detention centres etc.) right before election times. They are no more a friend of the conservatives than the greens are.

Um....
Yah.