National Studies HISTORIOGRAPHY (2 Viewers)

[miss_ripcurlgir]

And also, u gotta be careful for what u write for each historical perspective eg. u cant say that struturalist historians were intentionalist, vice versa

 

[*caramel adele*]

you could probably get away with making up a quote belonging to a known historian, but dont actually make up a historian. as nwatts said the markers will be cluey as to historians.
but if you make up a quote along the lines of what you know they have said, and you use a known historian, they prob wont even kno.

 

[nwatts]

you could probably get away with making up a quote belonging to a known historian, but dont actually make up a historian. as nwatts said the markers will be cluey as to historians.
but if you make up a quote along the lines of what you know they have said, and you use a known historian, they prob wont even kno.

You could make up a quote, I guess. If you tagged it with well known historian. I wouldn't, because it'd be easier to simply reference them while discussing their ideas, rather than making up a quote.

I find (this is me) that remembering quotes from historical figures, and remembering names/ideas of historians/critics is easier than trying to remember the whole lot. A quote from Hitler or Goebbels, then a paragraph of discussion surrounding a few critics and their views is very easy to master, rather than remembering quotes from the lot. I also find this to be the way to go in my conflict question (Arab-Israeli), as many of the quotes from historians are quite lengthy.

 

[Götterfunken]

umm, can u qoute out of the Modern hiostory excel?

how would u do it?

i'd say no; but it's a very big can of worms. you should try to have some more 'indepth' historians, as opposed to the creators of a study guide. But if you can't find any/don't have any, and the exam is on thursday, quote excel all you like.

 

[Götterfunken]

It seems a little odd refuting a 'point' made last october, but i have to for the sake of sakes... It was in this forum
Cantwell was not the senior marker for indochina!! Yes, he was in the vietnam war, did a phd on the topic, wrote the textbook and was senior marker for a number of years... but now he marks history extension! He said he cannot stand the "band two trash from whoop-whoop high"... you know, poowee style...

anyway, just had to get that off my chest for cantwells sake (hes my modern and ext. teacher )

well, with a ego like that I'm glad he isn't.

 

[AlleyCat]

pneumonics are your friend boys and girls!
make up poems and songs and little ditties. that way its FUN!

and dont make up historians if you can help it. if you cant, make them sound genuine or dont bother at all.

 

[Abbeygale]

Mnemonics. A pneumonic is a type of disease, I believe.

I could never come up with mnemonics for MH. They were great when I took legal in year 11, but Modern always seemed too complicated to bother with them.

I wouldn't advise making up quotes. Paraphrase those you can't remember, certainly. But I think it's a simple risk vs benefit question. If a marker suspects you're lying I doubt you'd score highly.

And remember, while quotes are very handy, if worst comes to worst it is posible to break band 6 without using them at all.

 

[Sgt_Johnym]

stupid idea as markers look the authors up if they are unsure of its origin

 

[kimi]

Well, a marker once told me- "if you're good enough to make up a quote and make it sound sooo genuine, then you're good enough to actually remember the quote". I dnt know about you, but even after ive memorised quotes, ill end up writing the quote down for the wrong historian cos ive forgotten the historian! Or else, if your going to make up quotes, at least memorise the relevant historians for your topic. The makers can research the historian, but they cant research the quote that easily.

 

[Meads]

OK it is really important for me to get this cleared up now. Does historiography require us to quote from historians & texts? Like actually "QUOTE"? What I have done for two years is reference every paragraph to a historian & a text, but i have never quoted, I explain their argument.

This is an issue if I need actual quotes.

 

[Picle]

i have trouble just remember what to write let alone historiography stuff them.....i struggle as it is

 

[Arvin Sloane]

pneumonics are your friend boys and girls!

I know my lungs are my friend, but that's hardly here or there.

 

[jdrockefeller]

OK it is really important for me to get this cleared up now. Does historiography require us to quote from historians & texts? Like actually "QUOTE"? What I have done for two years is reference every paragraph to a historian & a text, but i have never quoted, I explain their argument.

This is an issue if I need actual quotes.

It's not necessary. As many have said before, my teacher has also told us that while historiography is useful it is not necessary to gain a band six. He also said to paraphrase rather then quote if you have to, cos we have enough to learn as it is.

Try and remember three good quotes, but more importantly remember the historians in the arguments, eg. intentionalists vs structuralists and use quotes to back up your argument rather then have the quotes drive your argument.

 

[HayleeKate]

Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.

Ok. This should be a god send to any new year 12s. You may not realize it yet, but trust me.. this will make your life a bit easier.

Germany 1918-1945 Historiography​

Quotes relating to the Treaty of Versailles:
 “They must now eat the soup they’ve served us” – Ludendorff [the politicians who signed the Treaty must deal with the problems the treaty caused for Germany.]
 “..a fragile compromise between US utopianism and European paranoia” – Kissinger
 “There lies the cause of the next war” – Foch
 “What hand would not wither that binds itself to these fetters” – Schiedman
 “untenable and unbearable” – AJP Taylor
 “it left an insulted German that has the capacity to become the strongest nation in Europe” – Overy

Quotes relating to Wieman Republic and its collapse:
 SPD was more interested in social order than social change” – Ebert
 “13 years of chaos and folly” – Golomann
 “these times long for authority, they are tired of liberal ideals” – Nicholls.
 “the hasty decisions of 1918-1919 meant that significant opportunities for a more auspicious foundation of Wiemar democracy were squandered” –Kershaw.
 “a stable coalition is an oxymoron” – Kershaw [on proportional representation]
 Article 48: “Declare the fundamental rights of any citizen wholly or partly inabeyance”

Quotes about the depression:
 “We’re dancing on the edge of a volcano” – Stresseman
 We have no resources of our own anymore” – Stresseman.
 “We are financially disarmed” – Stresseman
 “its effects were poured into a cup already filled to the brim” – Dejonge
 [It caused] “..incalculable human anxiety and embitterment burnt into the minds of millions” – Bullock.

Quotes about Hitler and/or NSDAP:
 “the failure to effectively sentence Hitler for high treason sounded the death knell for the republic” – Dejonge
 [Hitler could] “preach all things to all people” – Greenwood.
 [In 1932] “Hitler could no longer be ignored in the power brokerage game” – Kershaw
 “Hitler was a beneficiary of Weimar’s failure rather than its cause” – Kershaw
 “His success owed much to luck and even more to bad judgement of his political opponents” – Bullock
 [Many] “..thought that by appeassing Hitler they could ride out the storm and salvage necessary for their existance” – Williamson
 [The Riechstag became] “.. the most highly paid male chorus in the world” – Shirer
 [The Army was] “..a state within a state” – Schiedemann
 “The SA is and remains the destiny of Germany” – Rohm
 [The Night of the Long Knives] “..washed away the last scruples. It was the clear assertion that there was no turning back” _ AJP Taylor
 “The Fuehrer is clever than we are, he will plan and do everything correctly” – Blomberg
 [Jews are] “.. a parasite in the body of other nations” – Hitler
 “the Jew [is] the international maggot of nations” – Hitler, Mein Kampf
 “The masses are blind and stupid” –Hitler
 “He who rules the street rules the state” – Goebells
 [Auchwitz] “..it was not for nothing that their emblem was Death’s Head and that they carried a loaded gun” – Hess
 “Society changed so much that no one knew what was up or down” –Schoenbaum
 “Where books are burnt shall one day burn people” – Heinrich Heine, pre-Nazi poety [relates to NSDAP ‘degenerate’ literature burning]
 [The Nazi economy was] “.. an extreme form of state capitalism and state socialism combined” –Thomson
 “Man has become great through perpetual struggle. In perpetual peace his greatness must decline” – Hitler
 “The shackles of Versailles had been torn off” – Shirer
 “Anyone other than myself would have lost his nerve. What saved us was my unshakeable obstinacy and my amazing aplomb” – Hitler
 “The whole education by a nation state must aim primarily not at the stuffing of mere knowledge, but at building bodies which are physically healthy to the core” – Hitler, Mein Kampf
 “The new regime was still thought to be the lesser evil compared to the main danger” [ ie Bolshevism] – Bracher
 “It was the purpose of the widely accepted Nazi thesis of the ‘legal revolution’ to sow confusion and weaken potential counterforce” - Bracher

Enjoy.

 

[GubGub]

vaultamort

 

[pungemo]

The number of times you reference historians all depends on what your argument is and what the criteria for the task says on the matter. If people here do ext. his then you'll know that in modern history it's a risky business to go against the desired answer, as opposed to the more open extension history.

If you are taking the easier route and supporting the answer that the teachers obviously want then you only need to mention historians occassionaly so that you will stand out from those who don't. If you decide to express an opinion contrary to the desired answer then you will have to do a lot more to support it. Examine the historians constantly and show the conflicts of interest, obvious biases, the whole drill.

Generally it's best to mention historians each time you introduce a new point or examine a different perspective. But again, it relies on numerous things such as teacher preference and assessment criteria.

 

[Paige Dog]

This is a great idea
anyone know any good quotes on women,religion,ss&sa or nazi youth for germany 1930's?

 

[dimu2]

Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.

thaaaanx

 

[vogue]

Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.

bless you

 

[Kmahal1990]

Russia: Some Historiography and sources for you to quote from

1. Bolshevik Consolidation of power
- Communist(Bolshevik) ideology at the time of the revolution
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]April Thesis. (2) That Russian state was currently entering the second stage of the revolution, i.e the power from the initial bourgeosie government and into the hands of the proletariat government. (3) No support for the Provisional government. (5) Not a return to parliamentary republic, a “retrograde step”. Encourages the republic of Soviets of Workers, Agricultural Labourers’ and Peasants’ deputues…Abolition of the police, the army and the bureaucracy. (6) Confiscation of landed estates, nationalisation of all lands in the country.(8) It is not our immediate task to ‘introduce’ socialism, but only to bring socialism and the distribution of products at once under the control of the Soviet’s of Workers’ deputies.
- Social and Political Reforms -[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]“…Bolsheviks found themselves creating a social order that, for all its differences, was depressingly similar in its political culture to the society they had overthrown” – David Christian
- the Civil War and aims, nature and impact of War Communism
-[FONT=&quot] "[/FONT]The Greatest strength of the new government, however, was simply the fact that its opponents were even weaker and less well organised. They had neither the oranisation with which to replace the old coercive machinery quickly, nor the popular support necessary to undermine Bolshevik power. Sukhanov’s five hundred disciplined and loyal troops ‘just did not exist’ as Kerensky later found out. The Conviction that the Bolsheviks would not last long induced a lethargy in their opponents that prevented them from organising effective resistance" - Peter Anderson

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]White minister of war: Said that White army was characterized by ‘ignorance and incompetence’

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]British Military official: the cause was not ‘worth the life of one British soldier’

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Kolchak’s general: failed to “give the peasant the bird[land] in the hand; they were even afraid to promise him the bird in the bush”

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]While some of its[war communism] measures were indeed taken to meet emergencies, War Communism as a whole was not a ‘temporary measure’ but an ambitious and, as it turned out, premature attempt to introduce full-blown communism. – Richard Pipes

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Trotsky: In other words, from [War Communism] it hoped to gradually, but without destroying the system, to arrive at genuine communism

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The laws and decrees to this end, passed at a time when the Bolshevik regime was fighting for its life and which contributed nothing to its survivability, were inspired by an ideological belief in the need to deprive the citizens of ownership of disposable assets because they were a source of political independence. – Richard Pipes

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Richard Pipes: [War Communism] had all but destroyed Russian industry and decimated Russia’s working class.

- Lenin: Where is your industry? Why is it idle?

- 1919 Party Programme: The task of Soviet authority at present consists in steadfastly pursuing the replacement of trade by a planned and nationally organized distribution of products.





-Signifiance of the brest-Litovsk treaty
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Peace was desperately needed so that the Bolsheviks could consolidate their power and set Russia on the road to recovery - Norman Lowe

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]The Bolsheviks’ main concern after October was to solidify their power and to expand it nationwide. In lenin’s judgments, unless Russia promptly signed an armistice with Germany, his chances of keeping power were close to nil; conversely, such an armistice and the peace that would follow opened for the Bolsheviks the doors to world conquest. The issue was starkly simple: unless the Bolsheviks made peace, “the peasant army, unbearably exhausted by the war, …will overthrow the socialist works’ government”. The Bolsheviks required a peredyshka, or breathing spell, to consolidate power, to organize the administration, and to build their own armed forces. - Might me Ricahard Pipes...i forgot.


-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]In any case, the treaty bought the Bolsheviks a crucial breathing space, while they prepared to meet domestic opponents who, though much weaker, were fighting for higher stakes- David Christian.






-the New Economic Policy (NEP)

• Gerhard Rempel says: ‘a tactical manoeuvre to be pursued only until the inevitable change of conditions which would make victory possible’
• Lenin explains the reasons behind NEP: ‘the maintenance of the alliance of the proletariat with the peasantry, in order that the proletariat may keep that role of leadership and state power’
• David Christian: ‘An ideal government for the peasantry that was too weak to interfere with their economic life’
• Victor Serge: “The NEP restored some prosperity to Russia . But to many of us this prosperity was distasteful... Classes were reborn in front of our very eyes..”

That is all i have time for now...don't know if anyone finds any of this useful.