Paris Terror Attack (2 Viewers)

[SylviaB]

islam is incompatible with western society and muslims should stay in muslim countries

 

[classicjimbo]

There is a difference between freedom of speech and hate speech. Also if freedom of speech applies to everyone, why is it that religious clothing (such as the hijab and sikh turban) are banned in France. Why is it that in America, 'negative' publications of Jews/Israel is limited and branded anti Semitic.

You should also note that Pew (a main publisher of statistics) is run by Jews. They can make up any shit, how do you know? Why blindly believe in these statistics.

haha again with 'da joos'

the reason they ban symbols of religious affiliation, which also even applies to da joo's and da xtians not just the poor brown people , in public schools and institutions (note: not absolutely everywhere like you seem to think, except burqa) is because of their model of secularism

Laïcité relies on the division between private life, where adherents believe religion belongs, and the public sphere, in which each individual, adherents believe, should appear as a simple citizen equal to all other citizens, devoid of ethnic, religious or other particularities.

i'm still learning a lot about it but from what i understand secularism is a huge part of the french culture and really there's like 20+ muslim countries they could leave to if they can't respect the indigenous culture (their parents up and left somewhere for france, they can too)

if muslim countries took a page from the book of Laïcité they'd probably be a bit less shit and unproductive :^)
the recent Turkey seems to do pretty well for itself because of following Laïcité (until erdogan recently though lmao they're fucked rip turkey)

isn't it a bit weird that you're obsessing about western freedom of speech and expression when your religions name is literally derived and i suppose defined by the word for submission? lmao

 

[Kiraken]

What's your problem?

What did i say wrong? I was pointing out a fallacy in that guy's argument where he stated that Islam should be removed from featuring in society. Is that not going against freedom of expression

Don't tell me you sympathise with Zionists or Sunni Wahhabis...

Except that wasn't what u were saying

 

[Kiraken]

I agree that the ban on religious clothing in public places is silly (ppl should be allowed to wear whatever they want in public imo) but pointing out whether or not hypocrisies in the french government's policies and attitudes to liberty exist is completely irrelevant to the fact that reacting with violence towards a bunch of cartoons is fucking stupid and barbaric

 

[wannaspoon]

this thread...

 

[classicjimbo]

I agree that the ban on religious clothing in public places is silly (ppl should be allowed to wear whatever they want in public imo) but pointing out whether or not hypocrisies in the french government's policies and attitudes to liberty exist is completely irrelevant to the fact that reacting with violence towards a bunch of cartoons is fucking stupid and barbaric

except it's not public places it's public institutions and people are allowed to wear whatever they want in public
there are no police tackling sikh's or hijab wearers or orthodox jews to the ground while they're walking to the shops to buy milk

e.g.

"Ahead of president Francois Hollande's visit to India on February 14 and 15, France has clarified that there is no ban on wearing the Sikh turbans in public. But displaying religious symbols - which include turban and the cross - have been banned in public schools, diplomatic sources said.


The Sikh organisations such as International Sikh Confederation have protested against the ban on turban and wrote to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, urging him to take up the issue with the French president. The National Commission for Minorities (NCM) had also taken up the issue with the external affairs ministry.

The diplomatic sources said there were misunderstandings on the issue.

"There is no ban on wearing turban in public places such as streets. The diktat is that while being on the streets, no one should cover their faces. Turban doesn't fall under this category, the way burkha (veil) is," they explained.

But the sources said France has decided that there shouldn't be any display of religious symbols in public schools. "You cannot wear the cross as well."

"We have this policy in place for sometime now and French people are supportive of it. This is a policy in accordance with our secularism," sources said.On March 15, 2004, the then French President, Jacques Chirac, had brought an amendment to the French code of education that banned wearing clothing or symbols in state schools which "conspicuously exhibit a religious affiliation."

but yah agree with you on the last portion lmao

 

[PakiPrince]

I agree that the ban on religious clothing in public places is silly (ppl should be allowed to wear whatever they want in public imo) but pointing out whether or not hypocrisies in the french government's policies and attitudes to liberty exist is completely irrelevant to the fact that reacting with violence towards a bunch of cartoons is fucking stupid and barbaric

Of course, i agree with this 100%. No justification for reacting with violence.

 

[SylviaB]

 

[SylviaB]

isnt it remarkable how every time a muslim does something bad, 'moderate' muslims manage to convince leftists that "real" islam is actually based on what are seemingly enlightenment ideals

of course, countries with sharia law being backward, repressive shitholes is just because theyre doing it wrong, somehow

 

[wannaspoon]

isnt it remarkable how every time a muslim does something bad, 'moderate' muslims manage to convince leftists that "real" islam is actually based on what are seemingly enlightenment ideals

of course, countries with sharia law being backward, repressive shitholes is just because theyre doing it wrong, somehow

Do you even know what the fuck you are on about...

the Ottoman Empire operated under Sharia law for about 600 years all while embracing secular ideals and laws... they also acknowledged freedom of all religious practices, etc... retards gon' retard...

 

[Kiraken]

isnt it remarkable how every time a muslim does something bad, 'moderate' muslims manage to convince leftists that "real" islam is actually based on what are seemingly enlightenment ideals

of course, countries with sharia law being backward, repressive shitholes is just because theyre doing it wrong, somehow

Many of those countries are backward and repressive irrespective of the majority religion though

Not to mention the application of sharia law in those countries is considered controversial even in the Muslim community since Sharia law isn't even a concrete set of laws anyway

 

[wannaspoon]

Looks like they are getting really warm now... they tried to hijack a car, were engaged by Military Police, fled into an industrial estate, man hunt focused on that industrial estate...

 

[wannaspoon]

The French do not do their man hunts like their cuisine... the tank is a bit excessive, don't we think...

 

[SylviaB]

Many of those countries are backward and repressive irrespective of the majority religion though

> Countries with sharia law
>regardless of majority religion

?????

Not to mention the application of sharia law in those countries is considered controversial even in the Muslim community since Sharia law isn't even a concrete set of laws anyway

Unsurprisingly none of them are remotely the western liberal vision of islam touted by moderates

which makes sense considering most muslims don't hold such views personally

 

[SylviaB]

the Ottoman Empire operated under Sharia law for about 600 years all while embracing secular ideals and laws

Operated under theocratic law

Embraced secular law

pick one

.. they also acknowledged freedom of all religious practices, etc... retards gon' retard...

If you knew anything about the ottoman empire you would know what a load of baloney that was in practice, retard.

Among many others, the ottoman persecution of christians is well documented. heck, they even persecuted heterodox muslim groups. Retard.

 

[SylviaB]

Ottomans tried to conquer Europe and make it islamic. But deep down they were progressive and tolerant of other groups!

 

[wannaspoon]

Operated under theocratic law

Embraced secular law

pick one




If you knew anything about the ottoman empire you would know what a load of baloney that was in practice, retard.

Among many others, the ottoman persecution of christians is well documented. heck, they even persecuted heterodox muslim groups. Retard.

ok...

 

[Kiraken]

> Countries with sharia law
>regardless of majority religion

?????




Unsurprisingly none of them are remotely the western liberal vision of islam touted by moderates

which makes sense considering most muslims don't hold such views personally

1. It's not a confusing concept, most of those countries also happen to be any combination of poor, culturally quite backward, war-ravaged and/or politically corrupt which are all factors in making a country repressive. One only has to look at a plethora of other countries that fit those categories that aren't Muslim majority and see they suffer from the same pitfalls of oppressive behaviour.
2. Um most Muslims don't hold such extreme views and are pretty moderate (take it from someone within the Muslim community). Furthermore, there are Muslim countries with secular laws precisely because they interpret this as being compatible with their interpretation of Sharia law

 

[SylviaB]

1. It's not a confusing concept,

You said those countries regardless of majority religion, but they all have the same majority religion (islam)

if none of them aren't majority islam then you cant compare them to anything to make the point youre making

most of those countries also happen to be any combination of poor, culturally quite backward, war-ravaged and/or politically corrupt

yes because there's no way that islam could POSSIBLY affect the culture of a country or cause armed conflicts. No, these are obviously just inherent parts of these countries' geography, apparently.

which are all factors in making a country repressive. One only has to look at a plethora of other countries that fit those categories that aren't Muslim majority and see they suffer from the same pitfalls of oppressive behaviour.

Yeah, you're reight actually. Being oppressive is actually the norm and europeans are the exception.

2. Um most Muslims don't hold such extreme views and are pretty moderate (take it from someone within the Muslim community). Furthermore, there are Muslim countries with secular laws precisely because they interpret this as being compatible with their interpretation of Sharia law

false

 

[wannaspoon]

needs more Van Damme