Physics w/o doing Maths (1 Viewer)

[Alex2]

Hi, I'm currently in year 10 and we're picking our subjects for next year about now...

Basically I'm considering not doing any maths at all... apart from the fact I'm bad at it, I have no interest in it nor do any desired career paths involve it at all.

The only science I'm at all interested in however is Physics... what I'm basically wondering is would all hope be lost if I did physics and not any maths? (not considering do Earth/environmental, chem or bio at all)

One science teacher says it'd be impossible, then again another says nah the maths you do in physics isn't hard, you don't need any year 11/12 work etc.

I hear alot of the difficult maths in the year 11/12 physics course has been removed in recent years??

I know there's formulas etc F=ma but thats easy subbing in numbers etc... as apposed to actual maths course, factorising etc.

So I guess what i'm saying is, with the level of maths gained up to end of year 10, would this be sufficient, along with what's learnt in physics, to get me through (presumably until end of year 12)? Better yet does anyone here do physics and no maths, and how do you find it?

What I'm considering doing so far is;

English Advanced
Legal Studies
Modern History
Society & Culture
Physics
German

.. and probably if I end up doing 2 Unit maths (not general) i'd probably switch it with german...

Thanks in advance

Alex

 

[zingerburger]

It is entirely possible to do physics without maths, albeit that much harder. Generally, alot of it is substitution into formulae. But when you start doing a topic like, say, Projectile Motion or Motors and Generators you'll probably get a question that is a bit more involved than, "we'll give you all these values, you find the right value and sub it into this equation".

I always found that basic trigonometry (SOH CAH TOA kind of thing) and good algebra skills will take you far.

The new course is apparently much more geared to the history of physics type-thing, where more is rote-learned but you still shouldn't expect physics to be easy. Basically, logical thinking and maths ability are extremely important in my opinion.

 

[Forbidden.]

It would be VERY advantageous to do Maths, as y = mx+ b and m = y₂ - y₁ / x₂ - x₂ are in it too, but you don't have to.

But the New HSC Physics has undergone a major makeover so it is more attractive to a larger variety of students and is not very difficult compared to other courses.

 

[xiao1985]

It would be VERY helpful to know some maths if you want to do physics.

Though as previous 2 persons put it, it's not necessary.

 

[zingerburger]

Just to add something: You might or might not have this proconceived idea that every second lesson of physics is a practical, and that all those pracs are super-happy-fun like on kids' science shows on TV.

Just to clear it up, it's not like that.

 

[S1M0]

It would be VERY advantageous to do Maths, as y = mx+ b and m = y₂ - y₁ / x₂ - x₂ are in it too, but you don't have to.

But the New HSC Physics has undergone a major makeover so it is more attractive to a larger variety of students and is not very difficult compared to other courses.

I hate the whole focus on the history elements in physics, i think the course shouldn't have been changed by the BoS. I mean, physics is maths, so why change it??

 

[kurt.physics]

For yr. 11 physics, in relation to mathematics, one must be able to;
a) do "basic" trig (sin, cos, tan e.t.c)
b) algebra
c) optional calculus i.e. for working on impulse (change in momentum), one must find the area under the curve by drawing triangles and squares and finding the area by doing A= 1/2lb and A=lb e.t.c, in some scence it would be useful to know calculus, as you use integration, but the only problem is that you dont learn that till year 12. so it probably isnt nessesary)

For year 12, the mathematics you need to do are;

a) algebra again
b) trig
c) and im pritty sure that you dont use calculus

So you would be fine up to year 12, BUT, if you want to take it all the way to university then, you will need to KNOW mathematics

for example

In the first year of Uni Physics the main to topics is Mechanics and Electricity and Magnitism, and it isnt car mechanics, its mechanics of moving bodies
i.e. useing calculus to find the instantanious velocity of an object or to find a rate of change.

Electricity and Magnitism is HARD, it uses the monster, VECTOR CALCULUS, which is wired words like div, grad, curl and all that.

I hope i havent discourged you, Physics is the most elegent and beautiful science there is, Einstein once said

"The theories are the most important thing in Physics, Mathematics is just the bookkeeping"

And Apparently (according to one of the forum users) Richard Fenymenn one said

"Mathematics is to Mastibation, As physics is to Sex"

So out of those to quotes, the most greatest physics say that Physics is the real deal while mathematics is just help.

But I would insist that you take 2U mathematics is you wish to take physics to Uni. but if you just want to do it to year 12, dont bother yourself with the maths.

Kurt Yr. 8
YEHHHHH

 

[aussiechica7]

maybe just take yr 11 easy maths? it will support physics well. also, if ur degree ends up having physics in it, it's likely maths will b in there 2.

 

[watatank]

you're thinking of doing any physics at uni then do two unit minimum. if its just another subject to do for you to maximise your uai, then go for it! the maths in hsc physics is quite basic really, there are a couple of formulas but nothing exceedingly difficult. in saying that two unit helps.

 

[Karl Marx]

let me tell you how much newtonian mechanics has to do with maths: everything

 

[Forbidden.]

Just rely on your Physics teacher for Maths.
If he can't teach you the Maths necessary for Physics, then ... who is that teacher of yours who claims to be a proper Physics teacher ?

 

[alcalder]

Can I just add my two cents?

Doing Physics without maths will be difficult. There is quite a component of maths, but not as much as there was. You do get the formulae on a sheet and have to be able to use them.

However, if you are thinking of doing Physics at Uni and going with it, then Physics at Uni is essentially ALL maths. I did Physics for 2 years at Uni (albeit some years ago) and I struggled with the Maths and I did 4 Unit maths.

I would seriously think about doing Physics without maths and perhaps speak to someone about it, perhaps even at a University, and see what they think about your choices of subjects.

 

[sle3pe3bumz]

Doing physics and not maths? Well I'd personally think that if you couldn't do or didnt enjoy maths well then physics just isn't really the subject for you. I think there is one or two guys doing physics w/o maths in my class. He's dropping it.

 

[Forbidden.]

I hate the whole focus on the history elements in physics, i think the course shouldn't have been changed by the BoS. I mean, physics is maths, so why change it??

HAHA ... Have you seen a 1995 Physics textbook ?
It's full of mechanics and laws (e.g Gauss's law) unheard of since the 2001 HSC Physics course and probably even more complex formulas than F = GmM/r

Physics is not entirely Mathematical, Mathematics is a tool used by Physics.
HSC Physics has become history and society based to make you appreciate Physics in a wider context, so "Assess the impact of transistors on society" now to give you a head start.
The syllabus writers have finally woken up and heavily modified Physics suitable for the contemporary context. Like any other subject any numbskull should be able to study it and it's got practicals in addition to theory.
Using the impulse formula, you can see its better to use the brakes than a light pole to stop your car.

Doing physics and not maths? Well I'd personally think that if you couldn't do or didnt enjoy maths well then physics just isn't really the subject for you. I think there is one or two guys doing physics w/o maths in my class. He's dropping it.

Awww ... the General Maths guy recently dropped from Physics.
Now everyone in my Physics class is has 2Unit or 3 Unit level Maths.
So if the teacher uses calculus instead of the gradient function for acceleration, velocity or induced voltage we will understand.

In fact here's a memory aide for ALL you 2uniters and up doing the HSC Course or are starting differential calculus.

F = GmM/r²
∆E_p = -GmM/r

Let GmM = 1 for a planet and r be the variable.

d/dr(-1/r) = 1/r²

The Gravitational force of attraction between two objects is the derivative of the change in Gravitational Potential Energy.

For you HSC 2007ers:

F = ∫ 1/r² dr = -1/r

The change in Gravitational Potential Energy is the integral of the gravitational force of attraction between two masses.

 

[watatank]

It would be VERY advantageous to do Maths, as y = mx+ b and m = y₂ - y₁ / x₂ - x₂ are in it too, but you don't have to.

oh i just remembered, there is a formula in astrophysics (one of the option topics) that uses logs. i can't remember exactly what it was, but i remember general maths students struggled hardcore trying to use it.

things like simple harmonic motion and trajectory are better understood in terms of calculus otherwise its a whole lot of algebra bashing. it helps to understand a lot of the graphs because of maths.

 

[Forbidden.]

oh i just remembered, there is a formula in astrophysics (one of the option topics) that uses logs. i can't remember exactly what it was, but i remember general maths students struggled hardcore trying to use it.

things like simple harmonic motion and trajectory are better understood in terms of calculus otherwise its a whole lot of algebra bashing. it helps to understand a lot of the graphs because of maths.

I got to admit that the logarithm/magnitude formulas took me a while to memorise them completely because we were forced to remember them, yet I got 33/34 in a recent I to I & Astrophysics assessment. It just takes a little time.
I think that was to blame for the only General Maths guy dropping Physics.
But for other people doing Physics they should have a formula sheet, it's a matter of choosing the correct one to apply it.

Simple Harmonic Motion in Physics ? I only see that in the 3U Maths syllabus.

 

[watatank]

I got to admit that the logarithm/magnitude formulas took me a while to memorise them completely because we were forced to remember them, yet I got 33/34 in a recent I to I & Astrophysics assessment. It just takes a little time.
I think that was to blame for the only General Maths guy dropping Physics.
But for other people doing Physics they should have a formula sheet, it's a matter of choosing the correct one to apply it.

Simple Harmonic Motion in Physics ? I only see that in the 3U Maths syllabus.

lol memorising like a sucker. they give it to you in the formula sheet. try doing questions using that formula without an understanding of logs.

hmm maybe simple harmonic motion isnt in hsc physics but i have learned that in high school some time. the point is that, as well as other things in physics are better understood with an understanding of maths such as calculus and logs.

 

[Alex2]

Thanks to you all for your input... nah I have no intention of taking Physics anywhere beyond Year 12.