Regards About EVO 6 !!!!!!! (2 Viewers)

[ToO LaZy ^*]

Sure, if it's your second/third car, for a thrash on weekends that may be the case. However there is nobody on these forums who would be doing that. This means that you would have an EVO as a daily driver. The novelty of badly equipped interiors wears off, and you can only push it so much in city traffic. You're not buying just a chassis and engine here. It seems naive to spend so much on a daily driver wihout considering the repercussions of the use it's going to undergo.

yeah i see what you mean..
in this case, im assuming (like what most people seem to be doing) that this p-plater is only in it for the show and probably has a mind warped into a 'performance car = skilled driver, .:, i am a skilled driver' mentality.
but we all could be tricked ... he/she might like to fang it around on the tracks.

but for people who just enjoy the pure driving experience (like myself), they probably couldnt care less if there was no sat nav, cruise control...all those fancy features. (cept air con lol). i myself, turn off my music on the way home from uni just to hear the precise engine pitch- which tells me if im rev matching and heel-toeing correctly.
had the pedal placement been in a better position, id have mastered these skills already. but its alright..im almost there
so once i do get my future performance car, id have no problem blasting it from the start ..hehe

 

[Jiga]

in this case, im assuming (like what most people seem to be doing) that this p-plater is only in it for the show and probably has a mind warped into a 'performance car = skilled driver, .:, i am a skilled driver' mentality.
but we all could be tricked ... he/she might like to fang it around on the tracks.

Thats why the Evo is a waste of money as well. Your also paying for all the strengthening of joints and the engine, way better suspension, heaps good brakes etc. All of which are useless for normal driving applications. At most, the car will see a track once a year, really worth paying $20k extra for that? And Evo's aernt that much of an 'image' car either, they BASICALLY look the same as the Lancer, 80% of its performance features aernt visible!

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

how are better suspension, brakes etc, useless for normal driving applications????

 

[Jiga]

Strengthened Engine = For hitting it hard, normal driving doesnt involve flooring it to 100km/h in 5 secs.
More welding = For when you go around corners at 150km/h+
Brembo Brakes + 4 pistons calipers etc = Yes they add alittle to normal driving, but they are more to provide better braking ability at higher speeds which you cant reach on normal roads
Suspension = Like with the brakes, sure they add alittle, but as long as you dont intend to hit corners at 80km/h plus.... regular suspension does fine. All thats different as well is that the Evos is made out of stonger material and the diameters of particular peices are bigger... which I can only assume is to handle higher speeds or even off road applications. It also has other stuff like anti-roll bars.... but again, normal driving, its not REALLY needed. Thats my basic knowledge, I heard most of it from some review I read a while back.

I dont know why I have to justify this... its just common sense really,

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

so in fact, they are not completely useless then.
better brakes = improved chances of avoiding accidents/hazards, better control in cornering, obviously not 150km/hr under 'normal' driving conditions
better suspension = again, corning ability, stability at higher speeds ~80kms, minimises sudden road changes, eg, hitting a pot holes at 80km can 'snap' your wheel in a particular direction, minimising body roll.etc

and theres probably better tyres in an evo, dunno the specs, but yeah, better tyres obviously can improve 'normal driving applications'.

 

[seremify007]

Oh btw the Evo is horrible to sit in when not moving... we had to sit for 3 hours waiting to cross the bridge from Malaysia to Singapore and apart from attracting a lot of stares, it was damn horrible... Sure those features are useful for normal driving situations, but under city/suburban driving, the Evo isn't really that suitable and when driving at <60km/h, the handling improvements/suspension improvements/etc... aren't going to be significant enough to help you forget that you are driving a car with a very boring, bland and ugly interior.

However, that being said, I'd pick the Evo over the WRX.

 

[seremify007]

so in fact, they are not completely useless then.
better brakes = improved chances of avoiding accidents/hazards, better control in cornering, obviously not 150km/hr under 'normal' driving conditions
better suspension = again, corning ability, stability at higher speeds ~80kms, minimises sudden road changes, eg, hitting a pot holes at 80km can 'snap' your wheel in a particular direction, minimising body roll.etc

and theres probably better tyres in an evo, dunno the specs, but yeah, better tyres obviously can improve 'normal driving applications'.

Opportunity cost is the issue.

Tyres can be changed on any vehicle.

I think the topic creator should post why he wants to buy an Evo, and then from there, we can see whether or not it really suits. I'm also inclined to think he should at least test drive one.

 

[Jiga]

better brakes = improved chances of avoiding accidents/hazards, better control in cornering, obviously not 150km/hr under 'normal' driving conditions

I dont know how better brakes improve handling around corners.... if your on a race track then sure yeah you can brake later, but public roads aernt race tracks. Things like traction control and stability control do, dont think the Evo has these? They are just bigger brakes with better calipers and more pistons per brake etc..... designed to provide better braking at high speeds (More pistons is a dead set giveaway of this, you need more power to get the brake pad down at higher speeds effectively). I think you would find that say at 60km/h they would add very LITTLE I think to stopping ability, pyhsics determines this, and the mere fact that ordinary brakes are designed for these applications means that they are more than addequate for these kind of things! If you had an idea of what your talking about as well, you would realise what Im saying, although I havent personally, I know people who have done up cars and were stupid enough to leave their original brakes on... at ridiculously high speeds normals brakes are shyte when it comes to slowing down a car effectively, very dangerous.... at normal speeds its negligeable, and thats why all cars dont have Brembo's on them becuase if they added ALOT to braking times at regular speeds, institutions like the NRMA would be having a fit and trying to get them standard on cars. And when you consider alot of cars still have drum brakes, let alone ventilated discs, it also may indicate that at normal speeds huge fat arse brakes aernt reallly needed dont you think

better suspension = again, corning ability, stability at higher speeds ~80kms, minimises sudden road changes, eg, hitting a pot holes at 80km can 'snap' your wheel in a particular direction, minimising body roll.etc

Its adds ALITTLE as I said, remember, public roads aernt a race track, provided you stick to the limit you dont need $10k worth of suspension to help you around corners.... and if anything, this will lead to complacency (as seen by ABS and an incidence of MORE crashes with it) and people will throw their car around beyond their limits! (And with a RELATIVE lack of modern safety features, good luck!) AND Im also unsure as to whether its all for the ride, better shocks (you can buy seperately cheap) and wheels (you can buy seperately cheap) help alot with cornering, so does an anti-roll bar (you can buy seperately cheap)..... but stronger suspension made thicker with better materials etc..... thats more to sustain off road use (at speed) or high speeds on conventional roads, both of which are not required unless your purchasing the car as an investment!

and theres probably better tyres in an evo, dunno the specs, but yeah, better tyres obviously can improve 'normal driving applications'.

So the Evo is worth $55k or abouts cos it has $800 tyres on? I think I would take a lesser car and do that myself.

And all of this... on top of the other stuff I mentioned you defintely dont need like extra welds (which I would imagine would be one of the more costly extras), stronger engine parts etc.

Ive also read that ride is VERY POOR, like borerline on unbearable because of all of the above features. So another nail in the coffen of the Evo's non-racing applications.

Opportunity cost is the issue

Yeah and then theirs that as well! Are you willing to pay that much for all these features which aernt REALLY needed. Your avg joe on say $50k a year is gonna need to save up for like 3 years for this car..... a car which unless he intends to race, is a complete waste of money. The novelty of its speed will die down..... and then you are left with a car that rides like a tank, and costs a fortune to maintain (tyres, clutches etc, all of which are known to go quickly in an evo as you would expect)

And like I alluded to, you want better handling etc... this can all be added on either after you purchase a car or taken as an option offered. Things like tyres, shocks, anti-roll bars dont add $10k to a cars price.... all the strengthening of joints does! The brakes can also be added, although I will admit Brembos are very pricey, I THINK its like $2000-$3000 all up, still beats paying an extra $10K for a lemon!

And some thoughts for the thread starter from what I read in a review just then:

"Let me stress that the Evo is not for inexperienced drivers. If you buy an Evo, be sure to invest in a performance driving program, or at least get some track or autocross experience. If the Evo gets away from you, it'll happen fast; knowing what will happen and how to regain control is critical to avoiding bent metal and broken bones. "

EDIT : And dont forget insurance costs, I couldnt even imagine how high they would be!

 

[seremify007]

I dont know how better brakes improve handling around corners.... if your on a race track then sure yeah you can brake later, but public roads aernt race tracks. Things like traction control and stability control do, dont think the Evo has these?

I don't know much about brakes but I'd say having better brakes, even under normal driving, is beneficial- reliability, robustness, etc... but being able to brake later, is definitely a plus; although not one which justifies the high price. As for traction/stability control- the car is AWD so does it really need those two? NB. This is based on Evo9, I'm not sure if Evo6 has AWD.

I agree that for straight line stopping it probably won't make that much difference in the dry under 60km/h, but then add in things like on a wet corner in less than ideal conditions, and I reckon the Evo will survive better off than a typical Holden/Ford with heaps of grunt. That being said, if safety were the issue, then the topic creator wouldn't be wanting an Evo now would they?

I know it sounds like I'm siding with the Evo now, and I definitely admire the car- but I still stand by my- I really doubt the topic creator is going to make much use of the car and would be better off buying one of many other competent cars in the $30-40k range.

 

[Jiga]

I don't know much about brakes but I'd say having better brakes, even under normal driving, is beneficial- reliability, robustness, etc... but being able to brake later, is definitely a plus; although not one which justifies the high price. As for traction/stability control- the car is AWD so does it really need those two? NB. This is based on Evo9, I'm not sure if Evo6 has AWD.

As for braking later, well thats not fool proof..... it doesnt mean you can tailgate everyone and are going to easily brake to a stop before them. Its more for being able to slow to from higher speeds alittle quicker, but in an emergency situation, as soon as ABS kicks in, I would imagine the adv of bigger brakes is substantially diminished!

Traction control wise, its not so bad, traction control is more to deal with accelerating and maintaining the tyres grip to the road... so obviously with AWD its easier with the power being put down across 4 tyres.... but this being said, if their is a loss of traction on some slippery piece of road and then say on the AWD your left hand side loses traction for some freaky reason (oil or something on the left side while accelerating harshly), the right hand side continues on with traction... you are going to spin out and lose control. However Don’t quote me on this, because there are systems in place in AWD cars that maintain traction, Im just not sure if the Evo has it or not (Although I would bet it doesn’t)

As for stability control, I believe this is mainly for say on a wet road if you approach a corner to fast or something, and then you lose control or over-correct.... automatically brakes are applied at certain wheels to try and correct you. Now in this case, an AWD would only have a slight advtantage in that it would be ALITTLE harder to lose control in the first place, but if you did, without stability control, you are fuked and are going to lose control very easily.

So I would say that traction control isnt AS important in an AWD, but stability control is! Im alittle scetchy to, the Evo does have some safety thing called active yaw control something-a-rather.... but I believe this isnt like the above two safety features, it merely emphasises more power on the back wheels in an attempt to avoid a crash... not 100% bout that one though.

I agree that for straight line stopping it probably won't make that much difference in the dry under 60km/h, but then add in things like on a wet corner in less than ideal conditions, and I reckon the Evo will survive better off than a typical Holden/Ford with heaps of grunt.

I dont understand? In the wet, ABS kicks in, the size of the brakes adds little really... I would suggest in these conditions bigger brakes would have less effect than in the dry? And without ABS, there is definitely no difference, because once you floor any brake, locking up happens very quickly and from that point when your aqua-plaining, it doesn’t matter how much brake force you have!

And as already covered, things like stability control give the ford/holden an advantage, despite them weighing more and lacking AWD which would normally make them worse off compared to other cars, they have more safety features instead. And also, ABS is meant to keep you in control when turning in the wet, but if you over-correct, with stability control the cars computer is going to distribute the braking over the wheels at the required amount to correct your actions … in an Evo there is no much thing.

I know it sounds like I'm siding with the Evo now, and I definitely admire the car- but I still stand by my- I really doubt the topic creator is going to make much use of the car and would be better off buying one of many other competent cars in the $30-40k range.

Dont get me wrong, they are nice cars..... fast, great handling...... but for the price and what they are, its a waste of money if your just gonna drive it on public roads!

EDIT: It is interesting to note however that the safety features on the current Evo are substantially better.... but still other factors make it an impractical car for your avg joe

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

matt damon- well a lot of people seem to think the public roads are a race track, thats why you see so many mods nowadays, to even the shittest cars.

also, are you writing your thesis on this ?

 

[Jiga]

matt damon- well a lot of people seem to think the public roads are a race track, thats why you see so many mods nowadays, to even the shittest cars.

The Evo is a car thats is honestly designed for high speed driving, all the stuff theyve done to it suggests this.... I personally think for this reason alone, unless of course your filthy rich, it is a waste of money. On public roads you will never reach the Evo's potential, but you will experience on the other hand all the negative aspects that are a result of its performance aspects like a rough ride, maintenance costs, insurance etc. Thats why its inpractical and I personally wouldnt get one because your paying a hefty price for features that you more than likely will rarely experience or require in normal driving.

also, are you writing your thesis on this ?

Haha well some of these things take abit to explain properly

 

[seremify007]

As for braking later, well thats not fool proof..... it doesnt mean you can tailgate everyone and are going to easily brake to a stop before them. Its more for being able to slow to from higher speeds alittle quicker, but in an emergency situation, as soon as ABS kicks in, I would imagine the adv of bigger brakes is substantially diminished!

Don't forget.. ABS works by stopping the brake just before it locks- and then braking again; so hypothetically I'd imagine having bigger brakes which won't lock so easily means that the braking distance should still shorten and won't necessarily need ABS. Remember- sure ABS helps, but it won't always shorten the braking distance under all circumstances- my car manual clearly states this multiple times actualy.

Traction control wise, its not so bad, traction control is more to deal with accelerating and maintaining the tyres grip to the road... so obviously with AWD its easier with the power being put down across 4 tyres.... but this being said, if their is a loss of traction on some slippery piece of road and then say on the AWD your left hand side loses traction for some freaky reason (oil or something on the left side while accelerating harshly), the right hand side continues on with traction... you are going to spin out and lose control. However Don’t quote me on this, because there are systems in place in AWD cars that maintain traction, Im just not sure if the Evo has it or not (Although I would bet it doesn’t)

IIRC isn't that the difference between AWD and 4WD? I'm guessing with your example you are referring to BOTH of the left tyres losing traction? I can't remember where I read it but I thought when that happens the way that AWD works is that the diag. opp. wheel also slows down? *shrugs* Not too familiar with safety stuff.

Back on topic with Evos in general, I'm not sure what the features of the Evo6 in question will be- I really haven't done much (or any) research to be honest. I wonder where the topic creator went.

Btw I still would pick an Evo over a Ford- it's not totally irrational, but rather, an Evo is a car which I connect with a lot more than a Holden or Ford.

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

Traction control wise, its not so bad, traction control is more to deal with accelerating and maintaining the tyres grip to the road... so obviously with AWD its easier with the power being put down across 4 tyres.... but this being said, if their is a loss of traction on some slippery piece of road and then say on the AWD your left hand side loses traction for some freaky reason (oil or something on the left side while accelerating harshly), the right hand side continues on with traction... you are going to spin out and lose control. However Don’t quote me on this, because there are systems in place in AWD cars that maintain traction, Im just not sure if the Evo has it or not (Although I would bet it doesn’t)

its called 'active yaw control'.
it distributes torque to the tyres with most grip.
basically it helps reduce understeer and oversteer.

EDIT: and yes the evo6 has it.
twas first introduced in the evo4

 

[Jiga]

its called 'active yaw control'.
it distributes torque to the tyres with most grip.
basically it helps reduce understeer and oversteer.

Yeah I mentioned it in my previous post....

"the Evo does have some safety thing called active yaw control something-a-rather.... but I believe this isnt like the above two safety features, it merely emphasises more power on the back wheels in an attempt to avoid a crash"

And thats what it does, it varies the torque in the BACK wheels (im 90% sure of this) in an attempt to get better traction and stability around corners..... I dont think this would be anywhere near as a effective as stability control though because they utilise ABS in all 4 wheels.

so hypothetically I'd imagine having bigger brakes which won't lock so easily means that the braking distance should still shorten and won't necessarily need ABS

Ummm I honestly dont understand that? Bigger brakes aernt PRIMARILY designed to stop your car quicker... lets get this straight. They are to deal with higher speeds, and in particular, the greater heat generated by the friction needed to stop or slow the car. Thats the purpose of bigger brakes, and also why you will also find that in good performance cars they also have 'holes' in their calipers... its all about the heat! Thats also why in normal cars you have ventilated discs at the front, as more brake force is require their I believe... and why once again in performance cars they will have all four disc brakes ventilated... you avg car has either drums at the back or solid discs. And this is because excess heat reduce the efficiency on braking.... and like I said before with a friend, theyve expereinced this first hand, at very high speeds, normal brakes aernt as responsive.

Remember- sure ABS helps, but it won't always shorten the braking distance under all circumstances- my car manual clearly states this multiple times actualy.

Yes thats quite well known. In the dry, it doesnt add anything, on loose gravel it in fact adds to stopping distance as the tyres dont dig in.... its really designed for wet weather, in which it will shorten stopping distances abit. But even then, its main prupose is to provide the driver with the ability to steer whilst braking in the wet (and to a lesser extent in the dry) in an emergency situation, not to reduce the stopping distance byt that much.

IIRC isn't that the difference between AWD and 4WD? I'm guessing with your example you are referring to BOTH of the left tyres losing traction? I can't remember where I read it but I thought when that happens the way that AWD works is that the diag. opp. wheel also slows down? *shrugs* Not too familiar with safety stuff.

Either am I There is something called active centre differential, and I think this is similar to traction control in that its more for maintianing grip under acceleration, but Im not to familiar with how it works tbh... but it could be what you are thinking of?

Back on topic with Evos in general, I'm not sure what the features of the Evo6 in question will be- I really haven't done much (or any) research to be honest. I wonder where the topic creator went.

The current Evo is alot more promising, I had a look the other day and the features on it are getting closer to what you'd expect for that price. But I dont think the Evo6 has to much... certainly not what I would personally want, particularly in relation to safety when you consider the speeds the car is capable of.

Btw I still would pick an Evo over a Ford- it's not totally irrational, but rather, an Evo is a car which I connect with a lot more than a Holden or Ford.

Yeah, well its a matter of opinion I spose. If I was filthy rich, I dont think I would go for an Evo, Id be more inclinded to get a big fat arse V8 like a Clubsport... its abit more practical as well becuase it doesnt ride like a tank but it still has all the performance features you need and then some.

 

[DaddyK]

It comes from two perspectives. Myself, a driving enthusiast who couldn't care less if the interior was fluro green and pink and hanging down, as long as it went fast. Or someone who wants the interior to look pretty, and creature comforts like heated seats and generally wants to look like the big man on campus.

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

Yeah I mentioned it in my previous post....

"the Evo does have some safety thing called active yaw control something-a-rather.... but I believe this isnt like the above two safety features, it merely emphasises more power on the back wheels in an attempt to avoid a crash"

And thats what it does, it varies the torque in the BACK wheels (im 90% sure of this) in an attempt to get better traction and stability around corners..... I dont think this would be anywhere near as a effective as stability control though because they utilise ABS in all 4 wheels.

oh......ok.
i didnt read what you posted, just what seremify quoted. lol
your posts are too long
anyway...the AYC distributes torque to any of the 4 wheels.
if its just straight line acceleration, the back wheels will get the most torque, but when youre cornering, it usually distributes the torque to either the left or right hand side of the car..

eg. youre going into a right hand bend...that means the wheels with the most grip will be the front and back wheels on the left hand side of the car. therefore, most torque will be given to those 2 wheels.

 

[Jiga]

Are you sure?

http://www.mitsubishi-cars.co.uk/features/ayc.asp

This suggests that its the back wheels

To the Evo's defence though, I think the newer ones do have "Active Stablilty Control"

 

[ToO LaZy ^*]

lolol.
i read that page a while ago. details mustve gotten away from me.
but oh well. close enough

 

[Exeter]

better suspension = again, corning ability, stability at higher speeds ~80kms, minimises sudden road changes, eg, hitting a pot holes at 80km can 'snap' your wheel in a particular direction, minimising body roll.etc

AHAHHHHHHHHHHHAHHAHA
do you know how wrong this is? its like the complete opposite, having stiffer suspension and chassis increases the "snap" of your wheel in a particular direction when you hit a bump

if you are getting an evo, get the 6.5, paying a bit more but its worth it, just make sure you find one in good condition...mitsubishi arent very well known for their reliability

having said that if you wanna drop 30-40g on an evo, you can get fairly new ones for that price