Rudd or Gillard? (2 Viewers)

[Mdzabakly]

So with more leadership speculation , and ministers jumping to rudds camp , I though we should see how the BOS labor community felt about this issue.

So are you for Kevin , Julia , or have you lost faith in The labor govt altogether .

Discuss .

 

[Lentern]

Re: Rudd or Julia?

Why does Rudd beget the use of the surname and the hint of respect and gravitas that goes with it whilst Gillard is 'Julia'.

 

[Mdzabakly]

Re: Rudd or Julia?

Why does Rudd beget the use of the surname and the hint of respect and gravitas that goes with it whilst Gillard is 'Julia'.

I didn't even realize I had done that.
( partially fixed , also the poll is all first names so Yea .)

 

[Trebla]

The sad thing is that even though Rudd is far more popular with voters, dumping Gillard for him will effectively be suicide for Labor because the independents have threatened to destabilise the hung parliament if that happens and the opposition will easily have stronger ammunition to say that Labor has no unity or decisiveness to function as a government. Even if Rudd does come back, I think Labor will still get slaughtered at the next election. It might make more sense for Rudd to come back if Labor was in opposition though (like the Turnbull vs. Abbott saga a few years ago)...

 

[Absolutezero]

The sad thing is that even though Rudd is far more popular with voters, dumping Gillard for him will effectively be suicide for Labor because the independents have threatened to destabilise the hung parliament if that happens and the opposition will easily have stronger ammunition to say that Labor has no unity or decisiveness to function as a government. Even if Rudd does come back, I think Labor will still get slaughtered at the next election.

If Liberal had a strong leader, I'd agree with you, but I'm finding the anti-Abbott sentiment to be a lot stronger than the anti-Gillard movement. Of course, it shouldn't come down to that at all, but unfortunately leadership bias is highly prevalent.

 

[Azure]

I've completely lost faith in the Labor leadership. Unfortunately I also feel the same way about the Liberals.

If I had to choose between Rudd and Gillard, then I would be inclined to go with Rudd. He at the very least has some sort of vision for Australia - regardless of whether you agree with it or not. The same cannot be said about Gillard (unless her vision is to take the country backwards). He also comes off as slightly more trustworthy than Gillard.

Don't get me started on Abbott.

 

[soloooooo]

Rudd is the only one that can save the Labor party from complete annihilation.

 

[Mdzabakly]

The sad thing is that even though Rudd is far more popular with voters, dumping Gillard for him will effectively be suicide for Labor because the independents have threatened to destabilise the hung parliament if that happens and the opposition will easily have stronger ammunition to say that Labor has no unity or decisiveness to function as a government. Even if Rudd does come back, I think Labor will still get slaughtered at the next election. It might make more sense for Rudd to come back if Labor was in opposition though (like the Turnbull vs. Abbott saga a few years ago)...

I disagree , it's unlikely that the IND would call an early election at this point . There is a stigma with gillards labor which is bringing down the ind own seats ( I think 3 of them would lose in an early). So it's doubtfull that they would call an early election .

Although there is no knowing at this point .
Reports say that if Hillary can't bring up the polls she will be disposed by xmass latest feb. so it could change by then

 

[Mdzabakly]

Rudd is the only one that can save the Labor party from complete annihilation.

+1.
Totally agree with this , the gillar govt is in tattles, with their primary vote lower than it's ever been . Although there will be the obvious backlash by libs who will criticize labor on all sides , and run campaigns against them , however even so I belive Kevin is their best chance . Labor needs to fix itself or face a decade in opposition ( at least that's what I read)

 

[converge]

I would vote Liberal if Turnbull was leader. He doesn't have that negative attitude and has an economic vision.

 

[Lentern]

I've been an advocate of a Rudd leadership since 2006 when Beazley was still leader, I became critical of Rudd throughout the course of his leadership and occasionally suggested Lindsay Tanner or Stephen Smith might be a more effective Prime Minister. I was always adamant however that Julia Gillard would be a poor one, people often mistake her being a part of the left wing faction of the Labor Party as meaning she is bit like a greenie, modern, multicultural, environmental, progresive etc. But Gillard is not a member of the socialist left subfaction like a Lindsay Tanner or an Anthony Albanense who indeed do have a lot in common with the greens, she is a member of the Ferguson Left subfaction(yet oddly Martin Ferguson whose father gave it its namesake supports Rudd), a small group of old fashioned pre Whitlam lefties. Their outlook is antiquated and frankly its downright dangerous. They have a fairly agnostic approach towards foreign policy and given their way would put up high tariffs and give enormous subsidies to local agriculture and industry workers, out of the tax dollars of the educated middle class.

Abbott's Foreign Policy is little better, while he sort of believes in internationalism he has a very Anglo-American outlook and simply doesn't want to appreciate the role of Asia in the new international economy. It is unthinkable in the 21st century that Indonesia, being the world's four largest population and practically our closest neighbour, that we aren't working feverishly towards a positive relationship of cooperation and mutual respect to achieve better outcomes for both our countries. Yet Abbott somehow seems to think it's appropriate to try and antagonize senior Indonesian officials for petty political gain, it is absolutely disgraceful.

Of these three Rudd is the only one prepared to embrace the international community and harness its potential to achieve positive outcomes. There are other senior politicians that get it too, Hockey, Turnbull, Bishop, Smith and Shorten to name a few which in a way is why it is so disgusting that our two major parties leaders are so appaling in their approaches to Foreign Policy. Frankly if Rudd is in the running I find it inconceivable that anyone could have any time for the reckless ineptitude of either Abbott or Gillard.

 

[kaz1]

The sad thing is that even though Rudd is far more popular with voters, dumping Gillard for him will effectively be suicide for Labor because the independents have threatened to destabilise the hung parliament if that happens and the opposition will easily have stronger ammunition to say that Labor has no unity or decisiveness to function as a government. Even if Rudd does come back, I think Labor will still get slaughtered at the next election. It might make more sense for Rudd to come back if Labor was in opposition though (like the Turnbull vs. Abbott saga a few years ago)...

Independents are full of shit, if an early election was called they would almost certainly loose their seats if not that their considerable influence in the hung parliament and no one would care about them anymore.

I disagree , it's unlikely that the IND would call an early election at this point . There is a stigma with gillards labor which is bringing down the ind own seats ( I think 3 of them would lose in an early). So it's doubtfull that they would call an early election .

Although there is no knowing at this point .
Reports say that if Hillary can't bring up the polls she will be disposed by xmass latest feb. so it could change by then

Hilldawgz

 

[iSplicer]

Lost faith in labor leadership.

 

[Graney]

There is frequently a divorce between what the public say in opinion polls, and how a numbers turn out once a certain person actually becomes a party leader. A lot of terrible and humiliating things have to happen for Rudd to become party leader. Even if Rudd is personally liked, it's unlikely enough to overcome the damage to the labor brand incurred in the process.

Media commentary around this is incredibly shallow - Rudd has better poll numbers, so the media proclaim that electing Rudd will improve labors electoral outcomes. It's not that simple. The party could conceivably be a lot worse off by changing leadership.

I don't think there's really a difference between the two leaders, in any substantial way, neither has principles or talent.

 

[Graney]

[An extraterrestrial robot and spaceship has just landed on earth. The robot steps out of the spaceship...]

"I come in peace," it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."

Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this turn of phrase.

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

 

[Lentern]

There is frequently a divorce between what the public say in opinion polls, and how a numbers turn out once a certain person actually becomes a party leader. A lot of terrible and humiliating things have to happen for Rudd to become party leader. Even if Rudd is personally liked, it's unlikely enough to overcome the damage to the labor brand incurred in the process.

Media commentary around this is incredibly shallow - Rudd has better poll numbers, so the media proclaim that electing Rudd will improve labors electoral outcomes. It's not that simple. The party could conceivably be a lot worse off by changing leadership.

I don't think there's really a difference between the two leaders, in any substantial way, neither has principles or talent.

You are wrong.

 

[soloooooo]

You are wrong.

With statements like that are you sure you are not Tony Abbott?

 

[Lentern]

With statements like that are you sure you are not Tony Abbott?

You just keep transcending levels of dumb don't you?

 

[Mdzabakly]

You are wrong.

+1.

At this point it's Rudd or oblivion for labor .
A transition frm gilard to Rudd is the only way for labor to survive, this will return voter trust to the govt ( already those who trusted rudd). It is likley that in his reinstatement Rudd will save many seats labor is losing due to the gillard stigma, and will show voters that labor isn't run by faceless men ( also bringing in trust ).

 

[soloooooo]

I want to see Pauline Hanson run a party against Abbott. Labor is gone.