SAT or HSC? (1 Viewer)

[theycallmebob]

You have got to be kidding me.............. you obviously haven't tried to apply for American colleges or even taken the time to do basic research as to how American colleges accept their students. SAT is only a PROPORTION of what determines your acceptance and , no it isn't even the dominant criteria! (GPA is much more important) There were people with CRAZY high sat SCORED AND DIDN'T GET INTO HARVARD..

The American college application system is so much better than the Australian college application system IMO because they take into account your grades from year 9 onwards , your extra curricular activities , your academic achievements outside of school , (i.e competitions) , personal essays etc..it's so much more competitive as you are competing against the entire nation for a spot in the top universities..

You obviously want us to pick HSC as the 'better' system because you're so quick to dismiss the USA system..
but HSC lets face is = study hard for ONE year (year 11 doesnt even count..)
whereas AMERICA is basically your entire highschool grades+ to stand out you really need to have extremely well rounded extra curricular activities THROUGHOUT highschool (so no you can not cram it all into senior year) , incredible academic achievements in nation state competitions + do well in the interviews +essays...

My friend applied after HSC and she said it was a pain in her butt because it's very stressful to just fill in the applications alone.. and then on top of that you need all these credentials. (for reference; she applied to Harvard , Yale ,UPENN , Columbia , Princeton)

sure but don't they generally take in all marks prior to the senior year?

I don't "want you to pick HSC", i'm comparing the two.

obviously you have more knowledge on the topic so I apologise for my naivety

 

[Cl324]

The American college application system is so much better than the Australian college application system IMO because they take into account your grades from year 9 onwards , your extra curricular activities , your academic achievements outside of school , (i.e competitions) , personal essays etc..it's so much more competitive as you are competing against the entire nation for a spot in the top universities..

The system is too politically motivated and greatly favours high socio-economic groups
In fact it was introduced in Harvard to filter out and restrict the number of Jews who excelled at the admissions test.
Basically if your last name is Kennedy, your family are very wealthy or have strong political ties you are guaranteed admission. Even if your parents attended, the likelihood of getting in is doubled. Also the essays, grades, extra curricular activities, and references can easily be bought. Its not logical for Australian universities to go through this process when they don't have the resources to i.e. they dont charge $50k per year.

I agree that the HSC system is flawed in that it really only tests a year's worth of work but should a bad year in 9th grade really affect your chances of getting into university?

Also for a college system so geared towards a liberal arts education I have no idea why maths and sciences are compulsory.

 

[theycallmebob]

The system is too politically motivated and greatly favours high socio-economic groups
In fact it was introduced in Harvard to filter out and restrict the number of Jews who excelled at the admissions test.
Basically if your last name is Kennedy, your family are very wealthy or have strong political ties you are guaranteed admission. Even if your parents attended, the likelihood of getting in is doubled. Also the essays, grades, extra curricular activities, and references can easily be bought.

I'm pretty sure it would be a little different now though. when I was looking into the potentiality of going to harvard (in no way a realistic goal) they say that if your parents earn under $60k, and you get in, you don't have to pay any college fees. apparently only a small percentage actually pay the full amount.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

One big thing I have against the American system is legacy.

You should get in your own merits solely. Why should you get extra consideration cause your parents went there ick ick. I think there is a bit of a favouring of socio economic groups.

 

[theycallmebob]

One big thing I have against the American system is legacy.

You should get in your own merits solely. Why should you get extra consideration cause your parents went there ick ick. I think there is a bit of a favouring of socio economic groups.

this is true, also they don't have HECS

 

[LoveHateSchool]

^Yes that is true, it is much more of a financial strain to send your kids to uni there.

 

[plasticities]

Just briefly looking at the SAT on wikipedia, the HSC looks way harder. Each of the three sections is only just over an hour and since it's standardised it doesn't seem to be testing any specific content in each part. Also, I remember a relative saying you can take the SATs as many times as you want and they either introduced or scrapped a plan that allows you to only submit the results of the test you want (e.g. if you take it two times and your second set of results is better, the college will only see the results of the one you submit, but they can still see how many attempts you've had).

But doesn't the American system have other exams at the end of their senior year anyway for each of the subjects they take in addition to the SAT. Because I think that contributes to their GPA. That being said, in my chemistry lab, my demonstrator always comments on how much better American education is, since one of the American international students has done almost all the lab experiments before in high school.

 

[theycallmebob]

Just briefly looking at the SAT on wikipedia, the HSC looks way harder. Each of the three sections is only just over an hour and since it's standardised it doesn't seem to be testing any specific content in each part. Also, I remember a relative saying you can take the SATs as many times as you want and they either introduced or scrapped a plan that allows you to only submit the results of the test you want (e.g. if you take it two times and your second set of results is better, the college will only see the results of the one you submit, but they can still see how many attempts you've had).

But doesn't the American system have other exams at the end of their senior year anyway for each of the subjects they take in addition to the SAT. Because I think that contributes to their GPA. That being said, in my chemistry lab, my demonstrator always comments on how much better American education is, since one of the American international students has done almost all the lab experiments before in high school.

As far as I understand the colleges take into consideration all factors including marks, community involvement, and general performance, with the SAT being the prominent factor.

 

[Riproot]

You have got to be kidding me.............. you obviously haven't tried to apply for American colleges or even taken the time to do basic research as to how American colleges accept their students. SAT is only a PROPORTION of what determines your acceptance and , no it isn't even the dominant criteria! (GPA is much more important) *There were people with CRAZY high sat SCORED AND DIDN'T GET INTO HARVARD..

The American college application system is so much better than the Australian college application system IMO because they take into account *your grades from year 9 onwards , your extra curricular activities , your academic achievements outside of school , (i.e competitions) , personal essays etc..it's so much more competitive as you are competing against the entire nation for a spot in the top universities..*

You obviously want us to pick HSC as the 'better' system because you're so quick to dismiss the USA system..
but HSC lets face is *= study hard for ONE year (year 11 doesnt even count..)
whereas AMERICA is basically your entire highschool grades+ to stand out you really need to have extremely well rounded extra curricular activities THROUGHOUT highschool (so no you can not cram it all into senior year) , incredible academic achievements in nation state competitions + do well in the interviews +essays...

My friend applied after HSC and she said it was a pain in her butt because it's very stressful to just fill in the applications alone.. and then on top of that you need all these credentials. (for reference; she applied to Harvard , Yale ,UPENN , Columbia , Princeton)

In that case the HSC and Australian entry is harder.
Because ANYONE can do as many extra curriculars and competitions and sports as they want.
So it'd be much easier to get into the top courses as long as you knew about it before year 9 and you were of average intelligence.*

 

[theycallmebob]

In that case the HSC and Australian entry is harder.
Because ANYONE can do as many extra curriculars and competitions and sports as they want.
So it'd be much easier to get into the top courses as long as you knew about it before year 9 and you were of average intelligence.*

Nah, they have massive competition, especially for the top courses/colleges.

 

[plasticities]

As far as I understand the colleges take into consideration all factors including marks, community involvement, and general performance, with the SAT being the prominent factor.

Well as far as I know the acceptance is based on all of them, but it really depends on the individual. There's always stories about people who are perfect on paper but screw the interview or people who apply but don't think they'll get in, getting in.

 

[pHyRe]

Well, I know that the Australian education system is ranked above the American by a decent margin (10 ranks or so) based on english, maths and science. But we have dropped in recent years.

 

[theycallmebob]

where are these stats?

 

[plasticities]

Actually since we were also on the topic of general college admission in the US, I just read this article posted in the Washington Post.

By “Concerned Student”

It's a deeply rooted idea in today's academic culture that more qualifications equate with better chances. After all, who doesn't perceive the selection process as a judgment panel that deems one applicant, for want of a better word, superior to another? Call it a myth, a misconception, or whatever you like, but this belief is positively unshakable.

Perhaps a different approach is in order. It’s high time the public understands and embraces the notion that college admissions decisions aren’t based on better academic or extracurricular specifications any longer, if ever in the first place. Just as neither perfect SAT scores nor Nobel prizes guarantee a spot in the branches of the Ivies, it’s apparent that what we identify as top colleges seek attributes that are intangible, elusive, and quite plainly put, mysterious.

Take a friend of mine, for example. Despite the 14 Advanced Placement tests (11 top scores) and two consecutive placings in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair under his belt, he found no welcome at any of the eight Ivy League schools, and neither did his co-founded company aid him in clinching even a position on the wait-lists of several of their peers. His great weakness? He’s an Asian applying for financial aid. It’s easy to argue that one case alone does not justify a loss in faith in the college admissions process, but open the question up for discussion and there’s no doubt the resounding response will taste of misgivings flavored with skepticism. Taking a glance at the qualifications of despondent rejects is enough to convince anyone that surely not all who were accepted into eminent institutes performed better either in terms of academics or extracurriculars, or, for that matter, had more passion.

So, instead of rationalizing that the admissions decision is an objective verdict that evaluates one’s educational caliber and is not an assessment of character, and hence should not be taken personally, it would be more accurate to recognize that the admissions decision does no such thing. They’re not looking for the finest scholars or greatest leaders, and being the best won’t get you into the “best” universities. What they’re looking for is, well, whatever they’re looking for, and with over 4,000 colleges in the U.S. alone, it’s good to remember that we have almost as much bargaining power as they do.

I think this highlights the benefits of our admission system, since if you put in the hard work and get the results, there's no question if you'll get in.

 

[pHyRe]

where are these stats?

http://www.english-online.at/news-a...ai-number-one-in-world-education-rankings.htm

 

[Ealdoon]

HSC, definitely.

 

[4025808]

I'd still think the HSC is harder, but better imo.

 

[petermeetswendy]

HSC all the way. Actually, a Chinese International student did both the SATs and HSC cause she didn't know if she wanted to study in USA, Australia or China. I think she is studying in USA but I could be wrong.
But unless if you are 100% planing to do SATs and got tons of money to attend a University in the USA, then do the HSC or IB.