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SDD Chosen Language (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dude
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thrillhouse
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- Aug 10, 2002
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hehehe Yr 11 we learnt FutureBasic 2.. that was so fun... in yr 12 the teacher tried several languages.. for instance he said we will learn pascal.. he handed us all sheets and stuff... after 5 mins everyone had stopped and did their own thing.. eventually the teacher got the message and let us do our own thing (major works etc) he just healps now with the theory... it pretty easy to object to anything the teacher throws at us, with a class of 8.
iptteacherssuck
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I do C++, Java and C#.
C++ is good in terms of amount of control you have, Java is good cuz you can run it everywhere (once u install java) and c# is good cuz .NET was actually designed with all of c++ and java's feature in mind.
Personally, C# is my favorite. Clean, easy to read and has alot of features. You can also use ASP.ENT with c# which is bonus.
Im gonana be smartarse and have a go at sunny now.. since he thinks he knows alot about Java and c# .. and since my identity is annonymous. LOL..
"C#. MS's only reason to develop C# was to compete with Java. This was because it lost a court case with Sun because MS was accused of supply a JVM not meeting the specifications to kill the language. "
I disagree. C# and Java is very different. Syntax maybe the same but once u start program it u will know its different. Is your comment based on your experience or other ppls experience ? Do you know C# and Java?
"Like you say before, .net has interoperability. Things like MyServices (aka HailStorm). Though such ideas were already around when Sun's motto was still "The network is the computer". "
Again i disagree. Sun does not have things like MyServices. Sun had web services.. not myservices. My services is colelction of webservices ms willbe providing. eg passport (global auth system), myalerts. .NET. Web service is a method of making a object or classes invokable (???) remotely whether its thru SOAP/XML or Binary (remoting). Waht interoperatbility? .NEt doesn't offer interoperability with anything except COM and COM+. It can't even run on win98!!!
"C# might run on alot of platforms, but Java2EE already runs on at least 26 platforms and already has a large population of programmers supporting it (all J2EE, SE, and ME). Yes I know Java is slow, I'm not big fan of Java either."
Java is not slow. Java maybe slow on windows but Java is incredibly fast in unix and linux. You will probably have oracle on the backend for java apps and java provides native connection classes which allows perf comparable to .NET/sql server
"But you're right too about Java dying off sooner or later, but there's still going to be supporters around (like those who still program in COBOL or still use OS/2). "
disagree again. Do you mean Unix and Linux is going to die as well ? Beside from C++ , Java is only (decent) compiled language on these platforms. PHP, Python. they are all script languages.
now to ruey
"up until vb6 they still had vb1 syntax function yadda yadda, for vb.net they erased the whole language and started again, now its a true oo language,"
Do you know what OO language means ? U sound like you know the language! What advantages other than "code reuse" does oo language bring?
ok i want to prvoke u guys more but i better go.chem exam tomorrow !!!
C++ is good in terms of amount of control you have, Java is good cuz you can run it everywhere (once u install java) and c# is good cuz .NET was actually designed with all of c++ and java's feature in mind.
Personally, C# is my favorite. Clean, easy to read and has alot of features. You can also use ASP.ENT with c# which is bonus.
Im gonana be smartarse and have a go at sunny now.. since he thinks he knows alot about Java and c# .. and since my identity is annonymous. LOL..
"C#. MS's only reason to develop C# was to compete with Java. This was because it lost a court case with Sun because MS was accused of supply a JVM not meeting the specifications to kill the language. "
I disagree. C# and Java is very different. Syntax maybe the same but once u start program it u will know its different. Is your comment based on your experience or other ppls experience ? Do you know C# and Java?
"Like you say before, .net has interoperability. Things like MyServices (aka HailStorm). Though such ideas were already around when Sun's motto was still "The network is the computer". "
Again i disagree. Sun does not have things like MyServices. Sun had web services.. not myservices. My services is colelction of webservices ms willbe providing. eg passport (global auth system), myalerts. .NET. Web service is a method of making a object or classes invokable (???) remotely whether its thru SOAP/XML or Binary (remoting). Waht interoperatbility? .NEt doesn't offer interoperability with anything except COM and COM+. It can't even run on win98!!!
"C# might run on alot of platforms, but Java2EE already runs on at least 26 platforms and already has a large population of programmers supporting it (all J2EE, SE, and ME). Yes I know Java is slow, I'm not big fan of Java either."
Java is not slow. Java maybe slow on windows but Java is incredibly fast in unix and linux. You will probably have oracle on the backend for java apps and java provides native connection classes which allows perf comparable to .NET/sql server
"But you're right too about Java dying off sooner or later, but there's still going to be supporters around (like those who still program in COBOL or still use OS/2). "
disagree again. Do you mean Unix and Linux is going to die as well ? Beside from C++ , Java is only (decent) compiled language on these platforms. PHP, Python. they are all script languages.
now to ruey
"up until vb6 they still had vb1 syntax function yadda yadda, for vb.net they erased the whole language and started again, now its a true oo language,"
Do you know what OO language means ? U sound like you know the language! What advantages other than "code reuse" does oo language bring?
ok i want to prvoke u guys more but i better go.chem exam tomorrow !!!
sunny
meh.
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- 2002
Yes I know Java. I've been trained by Sun to use the language. From my understanding C# is MS's own attempt at a Java-like language ("C++-- blah blah blah..."). MS has critisised the idea of Java, yet ironically enough they're developing C# after the court case and taking WFC concepts with them. Obviously since C# has the abilities of Java it becomes a problem for Java, especially if C# is supposed to be better. As my Java trainer had said when he was reading about C#, he "wanted to know the enemy".
You are thinking of RMI. I'm talking about the NC concept introduced by Oracle sometime in the 1990s. Sun definitely has something similar to HailStorm even though the NC concept has died. The things that ONE/iPlanet are supposed to offer like WebTop are to ultimately provide a set of services like my[insert some word here], just maybe without anything shoved down your throat. And obviously the idea of the O in ONE means interoperability between packages that use open standards.
Passport = ONE Identity
myServices = ONE Directory
myInbox = ONE Messaging
myCalender = ONE Calender
From what I see, HailStorm goes for the end user using XML and .NET, ONE goes for web enabled devices using XML and Java. Since web services based heavily on XML, the .NET framework can easily interface with existing information storages - that is how I see it's interoperability.
I agree that Java is good for backend services, its proven and robust in that sense. What about mainstream applications that end users are actually interested in? AWT is simply too slow and sluggish compared to WFC, not to mention that many screen elements are plain missing because it was designed to run across platforms. We were using UltraSPARC boxes running SunOS at the Sun training center, and even on a box like that its speed was definitely far from a native application.
Unix, Linux and Java were never related anywhere, so I don't mean *nix are going to die, I never mentioned it anywhere. *nix have a well settled user base, OS/2 didn't. Now *nix its moving towards the mainstream because its getting easier to use, OS/2 only did it to an extent. There is competition for Java out there now, just like OS/2 had NT against it, and I feel that Java's disadvantages does not outweight its advantages (in most cases), so I think there is a chance that it might eventually die out, but maybe over a long long period of time. But there is no mainstream competition with *nix. And that, is my 2 cents.
iptteacherssuck
Member
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ok
u should know that there is a thing called
J# in .NET which is Java in .NET. C# is seriously different to Java.
it obvious that i misunderstood some of ur sayings b4. But now that uve clarified it..
firstly, Java's RMI = .NEt's remoting... and remoting IS part of web service as well. Sun did come up with web service idea but they did not come up with "workable" idea of those services. Just cuz they said we gonna try to centralise authentication using web services. it doesnt mean they cam up with the idea. MS actually wnt witht eh idea and implemented it and then said we are gonna have passport web services...
I don't really think Sun is interested in getting interests of front end application developers. Probably more to component developers and software architects who works on data, and biz tier development. Java IMO is built for backend apps. Frontend Java Apps are IMO some what behind MS in terms of technology.
That includes web apps JSP is copied from classsic ASP and is in procedural format like PHP.
In short term Java is what linux/unix really has. its either Java, or C++ .. choose ur weapon of choice!!! unless u wanna go to the scripting lagnueas eg php and python and perl
u should know that there is a thing called
J# in .NET which is Java in .NET. C# is seriously different to Java.
it obvious that i misunderstood some of ur sayings b4. But now that uve clarified it..
firstly, Java's RMI = .NEt's remoting... and remoting IS part of web service as well. Sun did come up with web service idea but they did not come up with "workable" idea of those services. Just cuz they said we gonna try to centralise authentication using web services. it doesnt mean they cam up with the idea. MS actually wnt witht eh idea and implemented it and then said we are gonna have passport web services...
I don't really think Sun is interested in getting interests of front end application developers. Probably more to component developers and software architects who works on data, and biz tier development. Java IMO is built for backend apps. Frontend Java Apps are IMO some what behind MS in terms of technology.
That includes web apps JSP is copied from classsic ASP and is in procedural format like PHP.
In short term Java is what linux/unix really has. its either Java, or C++ .. choose ur weapon of choice!!! unless u wanna go to the scripting lagnueas eg php and python and perl
Last edited:
does your average small business have 10000 dollars needed to get all the features of .NET?
does your average small biz have even more to spend on ms's operating systems
besides that C# is like java
it was designed to be a competitor to java
just coz the way it works is not like java does that mean it wasnt designed to compete with java
j# is just j++ which is java using MJVM
and in the end very few major commercial languages will die out unless a language comes along which can do the exact same and more in an easier way then yeh maybe
you use the language which most suits what and how u wanna develop.
and sunnys rite about the whole uni/sdd thing if you haf programming experience you will find it easier but that doesnt maean ull automatically do better.
does your average small biz have even more to spend on ms's operating systems
besides that C# is like java
it was designed to be a competitor to java
just coz the way it works is not like java does that mean it wasnt designed to compete with java
j# is just j++ which is java using MJVM
and in the end very few major commercial languages will die out unless a language comes along which can do the exact same and more in an easier way then yeh maybe
you use the language which most suits what and how u wanna develop.
and sunnys rite about the whole uni/sdd thing if you haf programming experience you will find it easier but that doesnt maean ull automatically do better.
iptteacherssuck
Member
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- Aug 10, 2002
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what????? .NET is free.... o 0
and yes J# is J++ which is copied from Java.. c# isn't copied from J++ nor Java.. my point exactly.
either im confusing this with somehting else or idunno but last time i checked to buy the 7cd .net development platform it cost several grand
not counting u need to use their os software as well to run it
maybe i missed something after giving up on it? MS is giving it away for free? hmmm
not counting u need to use their os software as well to run it
maybe i missed something after giving up on it? MS is giving it away for free? hmmm
my point was that u disagreed that c# was made to compete with java
iptteacherssuck
Member
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- Aug 10, 2002
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no i was refering to comment
"C# is MS's own attempt at a Java-like language "
made by sunny
"C# is MS's own attempt at a Java-like language "
made by sunny
smithymobsoft
New Member
Quite a lot of ego in this thread! hehe
I think in relation to programming languages you use the best langauge for the job, or a combination of several, every single langauge has their advantages and disadvantages, people have got to get rid of this belief that VB is crap and C++ is the best.
Going back to the basics, a good toolman will use the best tools for the job, no good toolman has a couple of favourites and uses only them.
Oh, and just heading back to one of the previous questions where it was asked does SDD actually help for when you get to uni.
Most Software Enginnering courses in the uni's around Australia have "an introduction to programming" as the first unit. The unit covers a lot of the stuff you learn in SDD, about the basics of programming etc, so in short yes, it does help if you wish to head futhur into the area.
I think in relation to programming languages you use the best langauge for the job, or a combination of several, every single langauge has their advantages and disadvantages, people have got to get rid of this belief that VB is crap and C++ is the best.
Going back to the basics, a good toolman will use the best tools for the job, no good toolman has a couple of favourites and uses only them.
Oh, and just heading back to one of the previous questions where it was asked does SDD actually help for when you get to uni.
Most Software Enginnering courses in the uni's around Australia have "an introduction to programming" as the first unit. The unit covers a lot of the stuff you learn in SDD, about the basics of programming etc, so in short yes, it does help if you wish to head futhur into the area.
B
Bella32
Guest
C++ languae is very good to teach in school to childrens. It has a great scope and in future students will get great benefit from it.