Senator calls for burqa ban after robbery (2 Viewers)

[scarybunny]

Only to the extent where your clothing doesn't compromise you as a functioning member of society, free, willing and with the desire to conduct open communication with your neighbours, colleagues, staff serving you, even people walking on the street

The veil is made of cloth, it's not a cone of silence.

 

[Rothbard]

Banks should just be able to refuse entry to those wearing burkhas

problem ~solved~

 

[SylviaB]

Banks should just be able to refuse entry to those wearing burkhas

problem ~solved~

as wisely said by an "Islamic businesswoman" on today tonight: "You can't discriminate against a whole race (??) becauase of what a few people do"

 

[aussie-boy]

The veil is made of cloth, it's not a cone of silence.

Only 10% of communication is verbal - it is essentially a cone of silence

E.g. we consider it damn rude to talk to someone with sunglasses on (if there's no bright sun)/to wear a hat inside

 

[yoddle]

as wisely said by an "Islamic businesswoman" on today tonight: "You can't discriminate against a whole race (??) becauase of what a few people do"

This would probably solve the whole problem, if you could call it that, and the banks can do this if they wish.

For if we were going to ban burqas we'd have to ban helmets, balaclavas, big hats etc.

 

[Garygaz]

This would probably solve the whole problem, if you could call it that, and the banks can do this if they wish.

For if we were going to ban burqas we'd have to ban helmets, balaclavas, big hats etc.

Or maybe they could just ban them because they are sexist, irrelevant in a modern society and cause fear/a feeling of uneasiness in the average citizen?

 

[yoddle]

Or maybe they could just ban them because they are sexist, irrelevant in a modern society and cause fear/a feeling of uneasiness in the average citizen?

It's hardly the government's place to decide whether they are "irrelevant in modern society and cause fear/a feeling of uneasiness in the average citizen."

Andrew Bolt makes me more "uneasy" than any burqa-clad Muslim, but i don't expect the government to ban him. Cassette tapes are irrelevant in modern society but I'd be upset if the government banned them as well. Most of the advertising of cereal, cleaning products and cosmetics is sexist as well, but I don't think the government is planning a re-regulation of that industry.

 

[Garygaz]

It's hardly the government's place to decide whether they are "irrelevant in modern society and cause fear/a feeling of uneasiness in the average citizen."

Andrew Bolt makes me more "uneasy" than any burqa-clad Muslim, but i don't expect the government to ban him. Cassette tapes are irrelevant in modern society but I'd be upset if the government banned them as well. Most of the advertising of cereal, cleaning products and cosmetics is sexist as well, but I don't think the government is planning a re-regulation of that industry.

I think there is a slight difference between the sexism in advertising and forcing women to cover their entire body and hide themselves. Religion that discriminates between genders has no place in society, I'm sorry if you see differently.

 

[Graney]

Only to the extent where your clothing doesn't compromise you as a functioning member of society, free, willing and with the desire to conduct open communication with your neighbours, colleagues, staff serving you, even people walking on the street

If you want to shut yourself off from society and abandon civic participation, who is the government to force you kicking and screaming into the public sphere?

Government should respect autonomy above all else, choosing to be a recluse and not take part in society is a fair choice for an individual to make.

 

[Graney]

I think there is a slight difference between the sexism in advertising and forcing women to cover their entire body and hide themselves. Religion that discriminates between genders has no place in society, I'm sorry if you see differently.

There's already a law against individuals forcing a woman to wear a burqa.

 

[yoddle]

I think there is a slight difference between the sexism in advertising and forcing women to cover their entire body and hide themselves. Religion that discriminates between genders has no place in society, I'm sorry if you see differently.

But the fact remains that there are many women who wear the burqa by choice, and the government telling them they are not allowed to do so is unacceptable. I am sorry you wish to impede on the rightful choices of others because you "fear" and feel "uneasy" about them.

Religion that discriminates between genders includes almost every religion I can think of, and they have a place in society as long as people choose to believe in them. You may choose not to believe in them but that's a personal decision, just like the ones they have made.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

But the fact remains that there are many women who wear the burqa by choice, and the government telling them they are not allowed to do so is unacceptable. I am sorry you wish to impede on the rightful choices of others because you "fear" and feel "uneasy" about them.

Religion that discriminates between genders includes almost every religion I can think of, and they have a place in society as long as people choose to believe in them. You may choose not to believe in them but that's a personal decision, just like the ones they have made.

touche

 

[Garygaz]

Well if you would actually delve into the psychology of 'choice' you'd realise that being told to do something or believe in something from birth is very different then actually making a rational decision to do something. People make decisions to follow Scientology, well I won't go into that, but that is far from rational or reasonable. Just because someone makes a decision to do something doesn't mean it is their constitutional right to do so.

the world is full of idiots, just because I want to go and walk around public naked because my religion tells me to doesn't make it a right.

 

[yoddle]

Well if you would actually delve into the psychology of 'choice' you'd realise that being told to do something or believe in something from birth is very different then actually making a rational decision to do something. People make decisions to follow Scientology, well I won't go into that, but that is far from rational or reasonable. Just because someone makes a decision to do something doesn't mean it is their constitutional right to do so.

the world is full of idiots, just because I want to go and walk around public naked because my religion tells me to doesn't make it a right.

I do agree with you regarding choice, that it's an interesting concept, and choices, particularly with religion, are influenced very strongly by one's upbringing - then again, so is everything. However, again, it is not the government's role to say "just cos you're parents believe in it it doesn't make it right" or to say "your beliefs are irrational so we're going to ban them."

You need to differentiate between your beliefs and the role of government.

The world is full of idiots and that's what makes it such a great place, if we regulated everything "irrational" can you imagine how boring society would be?

Btw If i say that I think people should be allowed to walk around naked, will it discredit my other statements?

 

[aussie-boy]

If you want to shut yourself off from society and abandon civic participation, who is the government to force you kicking and screaming into the public sphere?

Government should respect autonomy above all else, choosing to be a recluse and not take part in society is a fair choice for an individual to make.

That's well and good, but these women are not recluses. They are participating in society, visiting shops and restaurants + using public spaces.

My problem is with communication in situations where it is expected... these women seem to think it should be one way. As a waiter/shopkeeper/person on the street etc it is expected in Australia that I should be able to view the body language, facial expressions, physical appearance of a customer/neighbour - this confers on me an ability to feel safe + amicable in society, and to do my job properly.

And as I said before, these women do remove their burqas when with friends.

The burqa is a conscious signal that they wish to alienate their identities from all but a close chosen few - and this social arrogance is simply not in line with our egalitarian values.

If you want to be a recluse, fine, but stay at home and do it properly

 

[aussie-boy]

Who gives a shit?

Clearly most people do

 

[kaz1]

They should also ban KKK cloaks as well, they're pretty similar to the burqa.

 

[Garygaz]

imo france have got it spot on.

 

[yoddle]

imo france have got it spot on.

imo being the operative phrase..
not an opinion which is accordance to the values which i attach to being Australian.

 

[Scorch]

That's well and good, but these women are not recluses. They are participating in society, visiting shops and restaurants + using public spaces.

My problem is with communication in situations where it is expected... these women seem to think it should be one way. As a waiter/shopkeeper/person on the street etc it is expected in Australia that I should be able to view the body language, facial expressions, physical appearance of a customer/neighbour - this confers on me an ability to feel safe + amicable in society, and to do my job properly.

And as I said before, these women do remove their burqas when with friends.

The burqa is a conscious signal that they wish to alienate their identities from all but a close chosen few - and this social arrogance is simply not in line with our egalitarian values.

If you want to be a recluse, fine, but stay at home and do it properly

You cannot force people to interact with other members of society, show them markers such as body language, like other people or even be nice to 99% of the population. What an absurd thing to say.