[Serious] Law students, do you have a life? (2 Viewers)

[Kalashnikov47]

Why would postgrads find it incredibly hard?

Sorry, what I actually mean was some "random idiotic postgrad in UWS"

Seriously, some postgrads and matured students in UWS are absolutely retarded, even though most of them are charming and smart.

 

[solomarc20]

Law requires a lot of reading, so the time at uni u have is generally 3-4 days a week (i.e. 12 hours). In terms of workloads, science and engineering degrees are the degrees that have the most contact hours.

 

[melsc]

Also, for those who are saying "law school is easy because all exams are open-book", can I just say: stop misleading people. Open-book exams do not mean exams are study-free, and in fact since exams are open-book, you are expected to learn beyond the content of your textbook, that is to say, to learn how to apply the law rather than mere knowing the law. One of my seminar leader actually said what they are looking for in the exam is not the how much case or statutory provisions you can memorise, but how well you can grasp the legal concept and apply it in given cases.

So law school is hard, but I think it is rewarding.

People weren't saying it was easy because its open book, they were illustrating that open book means the exam is focused more on the skills than the content. Yes the content is important, and yes you need to know your stuff quite well but you don't have to memorise everything. You wont have time to read through the textbook too much, but it is there as a back up.

 

[Strawbaby]

I'll agree that I don't find it as hugely easy as some of the first posters, more with certain subjects than others, and I definitely spend more than 3 hours on each subject per week reading and getting my head around cases. That said, I still have a social life - you have to. If you don't take at least a few evenings off to go to dinner, see a movie and grab a drink, you'll go insane.
And I have more contact hours for law than for creative arts...

 

[neo o]

no it isn't. It is a MAXIMUM of 40% on D and HD grades. HD is between 3-10% and D between 5-30%.



my contracts exam was not open book (or a take home exam).

edit: someone got there before me while i was looking for percentages

http://suls.org.au/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=20& Itemid=28

The new marking policy mentioned by previous posters took effect from Semester 2 2008, so I doubt that there are detailed statistics available. Under the past policy which (and my bad here) was changed because it was far too generous, the combined D+HD rate was 42.64% on average and over 50% in electives. However, considering the low standards of Usyd marking in the past, I'll consider any anecdotal claim that marks are at the low end of the spectrum under the new system totally bunk until I see concrete statistics from last semester, which is the only semester you guys have had under the new system. That document is quite funny though, SULS isn't happy at all that the faculty tried to improve the standard that it marks at.

law students at Sydney form the brightest cohort of students in the country

We're clearly the smartest in the country, just look at the high marks we've been getting!

 

[twistedtigers]

Wow. I must be doing something wrong to the rest of you.

I spend about 15 hours per unit a week and increase it as much as possible in the month before exams. If I have a compulsory assignment, that is done on top of the standard study.

The exams are open book, but in my experience, you have to have great notes and know them inside out. According to our lecturers, our exams are purposely set so they will be very difficult to comprehensively answer in the 4 hours. There is not time for page flipping, trying to find answers or gentle staring into the space. Part of the teaching is forcing you to think quickly, logically and coherently.

I'm a D/HD student (so far anyways), so maybe I'm more anal retentive than the average student?

That said, although my law studies are the most stressful thing I have ever done, they are also the most rewarding, enjoyable and worthwhile things I have ever studied too.

 

[jellyback]

I'm overwhelmed by the response, and appreciate the input. However, I need to re-state my initial question:

"As a Law student, do you find your coursework, and the corresponding quest for good grades, hindering your ability to enjoy life beyond school?"

First, I know Law is an intensive but satisfying course. I do expect a lot of hardwork, and also understand that more time spent on (effective) studying will correlate with better results.

My query isn't about whether Law is difficult. I just want to learn if the workload is heavy enough that it consumes most of your time? I want to hear from ex/current Law students how you manage this choice of study with your other pursuits.

 

[circusmind]

My query isn't about whether Law is difficult. I just want to learn if the workload is heavy enough that it consumes most of your time? I want to hear from ex/current Law students how you manage this choice of study with your other interests.

Depends how good you are, and what you want.

I aim for Ds and HDs. Law school hinders my social life, but only because I actively choose to prioritize good marks over going out during the semester. I imagine that I could cruise by on Cs with a whole lot less work and a whole lot more socialising. Conversely, I am sure that there are people much smarter than me getting the same marks as me with a whole lot less work.

It is easier to maintain social life with those who are also at uni, obviously. I find it hard to keep tabs on friends who have gone to other unis or have gotten jobs. It's real easy to find hours during the day to hang out on campus, but I like to study at night.

Exam time and the month before it for me is a washout.

No one can tell you how much time your uni will take up. It is a full time job, though, and if you are very serious about it, it will be like any other all-consuming job. Bear in mind that many of your competitors are Type A workaholics, plain and simple. If you have insane time-management skills and zero procrastination, you can work smarter than these kids. Don't expect to be wildly successful without making sacrifices, though. I don't know anyone who kills uni without sucking it up and hitting the library in a significant way. That goes for all faculties.

 

[melsc]

I'm overwhelmed by the response, and appreciate the input. However, I need to re-state my initial question:

"As a Law student, do you find your coursework, and the corresponding quest for good grades, hindering your ability to enjoy life beyond school?"

First, I know Law is an intensive but satisfying course. I do expect a lot of hardwork, and also understand that more time spent on (effective) studying will correlate with better results.

My query isn't about whether Law is difficult. I just want to learn if the workload is heavy enough that it consumes most of your time? I want to hear from ex/current Law students how you manage this choice of study with your other pursuits.

I think most of us answered the question (especially at the begining before things got a little side tracked) the problem is though we can't tell you what you want. I think most of us are answering your question indirectly as its difficult to do directly, we are answering my telling you how hard it is so you can access how much time you think it will take.

Its impossible to know how much time law studies will take YOU. First of all, it changes at yu get used to studying and even the most experienced of us have misjudged the time an assessment would take (hence me working on one this morning). We all learn in different ways and at different paces so we cant tell you if you will be one of those people who need to study extra hard or just do the minimum.

One variable is reading speed, you will read much slower in first year as you are getting used to legal lanuage and academic language and thus it will take you longer. You will also start to learn what is important and what is what can be skipped or skimmed. Some people just read slower generally, my boyfriend and I can be doing the same subject with the same book and finish at completely different times.

Some people find lectures dont work for them and thus need to write their own notes, others find they are capable of running of the lecturers notes and doing the reading.

Basically there will be some sacrifice, that being you either have perfect grades and a limited social life, decent to average grades and a moderate social life or passes-fails and a crazy party all night every night social life.

With me, I want somewhat of a social life, I work about 16hrs a week and I have a boyfriend. Both my friends and boyfriend are either students or law students and understand uni study...it does mean some I dont see much during semester because they all go to separate uni's but others I may see once a week (limited funds contributes to this) and having a job also means there is some sacrifice to my grades, but I am happy to have decent grades, some solid work experience and a limited social life...

 

[Cookie182]

Sorry, what I actually mean was some "random idiotic postgrad in UWS"

Seriously, some postgrads and matured students in UWS are absolutely retarded, even though most of them are charming and smart.

Haha I just had to laugh there...Postgrad's ace it like no-on else!

I mean, who do you think is going to kill first yr law more? A bunch of high school kids or the girl who just graduated with honours in philosophy/english/sociology etc and has already taken uni law electives for interest in her BA?

I also disagree with neo that accounting is easier then law...perhaps its just me, but 2nd/3rd yr accounting subjects particularly Financial Accounting courses covering tax rules, business combinations etc are quite difficult and have a huge failure rate at my uni, I know many ppl also who go very well in Law and have failed first yr accy courses.

 

[izzy88]

ok so i didn't really answer the question. But as it has been said, it depends on the student as to how much time law will take them- and time is not necessarily reflected in results. I have a friend who works heaps and doesn't seem to do as well as the amount of work they put in. On the other hand, i'm sure you'll get people that don't put in as much work in and do well (although more unlikely probably).

I work about 16 hrs a week (sometimes more, sometimes less) but i still manage to have a life. I'm not really into going out and partying all the time- but i still go to the movies, hang out with friends etc I also live at college though- so that can make socialising relatively easy as well- just walk out of my room and there are other people to hang out with/chat to- and i don't have to worry about travelling time to and from uni!

with law what tends to take me the most time is the reading- sometimes there's tonnes and sometimes there isn't. And when i learn (and re-learn every semester!) that i don't need to read the textbook, only the reader, it gets a bit better. Except when we hit almost exam time and i realise i have no notes. It won't be a very social couple of weeks in the near future. but it always tends to work out well, and i (generally) have a balance. It seems to work out for me and i tend to average Ds-HDs for my subjects.

But remember, in undergrad at least, you generally have only 3 law subjects a year for the first three years of your undergrad degree (at sydney at least, but its similar in most combined degrees for the first three/four years that you do your undergrad degree) One law subject one semester and two the next. There are three/two other subjects which can take up your time just as much/if not more than your law subject (i have a pre-honours arts subject this semester with a hell of a lot of reading and a really small seminar class every week which seems to be taking more time than law atm).

 

[jellyback]

melsc: Sorry, my last reply was primarily directed at "Kalashnikov47", who I felt was ranting off-topic, and I should have specified so. Sorry!

In fact, most of your earlier replies answered my question one way or another, and helped me get a better understanding of Law.

I also know the "difficulty" of managing Law differs from individuals to individuals, but I appreciate hearing how everyone balances their studies with life - which many of you have already answered in certain depth, thanks!

 

[misericordia]

i don't have a life apart from half a day per week that i spend not studying, but i'm sure everyone's different. i'm just inefficient.

 

[simonloo]

isn't this thread a whole generalisation on med/law/engo/science?

 

[melsc]

isn't this thread a whole generalisation on med/law/engo/science?

How can it be a generalisation on law if we all study it?

 

[MichaelJackson2]

well clearly we don't have a life considering there are now close to #40 posts on the topic of whether law students have a life.

QED.

 

[TehAzner]

Personally I think Law is just like any other subject. It's hard at first but then you get used to it. Every subject has massive weekly readings; engineering, commerce (accounting/finance), medicine, arts (philosophy) and etc. The main reason why I think people say that Law students don't have a life is probably because of the high UAI cut-offs (USYD/UNSW) and also the broad topics within the subject such as Contracts, Public Law, Federal Constitutional Law. The general perception of law students being the only ones immersed in a whole sea of readings just doesn't click with me. Sure there may be loads of cases to read, but take Accounting for example, you will come across the AASB Regulations and I assure you, they are almost as hectic as any law reading you will come across. Almost every university subject requires loads of reading/homework preparation, and thus I disagree that Law students don't have a social life at all.

The main thing is to stay on top of things. Don't go to lectures/seminars not having read the assigned readings. Also make sure you prepare notes before the semester finishes, it'll save you loads of time during STUVAC. It's your loss and when it comes to exam time you'll get epic gg'd. With basically every subject, you can have a life, it just comes down to the individual's organisational/time management skills.

 

[Cookie182]

Personally I think Law is just like any other subject. It's hard at first but then you get used to it. Every subject has massive weekly readings; engineering, commerce (accounting/finance), medicine, arts (philosophy) and etc. The main reason why I think people say that Law students don't have a life is probably because of the high UAI cut-offs (USYD/UNSW) and also the broad topics within the subject such as Contracts, Public Law, Federal Constitutional Law. The general perception of law students being the only ones immersed in a whole sea of readings just doesn't click with me. Sure there may be loads of cases to read, but take Accounting for example, you will come across the AASB Regulations and I assure you, they are almost as hectic as any law reading you will come across. Almost every university subject requires loads of reading/homework preparation, and thus I disagree that Law students don't have a social life at all.

The main thing is to stay on top of things. Don't go to lectures/seminars not having read the assigned readings. Also make sure you prepare notes before the semester finishes, it'll save you loads of time during STUVAC. It's your loss and when it comes to exam time you'll get epic gg'd. With basically every subject, you can have a life, it just comes down to the individual's organisational/time management skills.

Yeah agreed, I'm finding second yr accounting (where your expected to not only read and understand each specific standard per topic) basically the same as Law, just with numbers...

In fact, accounting could be said to be a quantitative branch of the law itself.

 

[tommykins]

Honestly, law school is not easy. However neither it is as horrible as it is said to be by many people nor do the law students have "no life" like people say. If you are one of those postgrads or some other random idiots at UWS you probably find law school incredibly hard, but this is certainly not what I found after spending a couple of months in a law school. Those who say "law students have no life" because they envy our achievements and the very fact that we are all smart.

hahahaha 'our' achievements? what have you achieved you stupid first year?

damn, i'm a first year and it sickens me seeing all these other first years be all high and mighty because they're in uni, doing a 'prestigous' degree.

get over yourself.

 

[Strawbaby]

When you top a subject, become an editor of a Review or win the Jessup or WTO Moot, only then do you get to claim enviable achievements.