Sex Before Marriage (3 Viewers)

[davin]

It is far harder to answer the questions that are present when God is taken out of the picture, yet I see no body asking these. Why is that? I would suggest that we don't ask these question because they point to an existence higher than ourselves. And who in there right mind would want to believe that there is someone more powerful then themsleves? Surely it is easier to live in denial and ignorance rather then face up to the question's that plague all of us;

How did this world and universe come into existence?
How did I come into existence?
What is the meaning of my life?
What happens when I die?

I'm sure these questions could be answered by many who instead of taking them seriously, decide their funny and non-conclusive comments are far more appropriate. It is not satisfactory to answer "The Big Bang" or "My life has meaning cause I party1!!!". If you decide to take a look at these questions seriously, I think you will find it is not the christians of this world that are delusional, but rather, quite the opposite.

ok, the party thing, yeah, thats an example of someone just being funny, but for the world and universe, the Big Bang is totally valid as a reasoning. And from there on up to the formation of the earth, its totally explainable. You can't rule out what would be a fairly valid comment. To say that God exists because of those questions, but you then say you're not allowed to answer plausible things is just setting it up into a trap.

The big bang formed the universe, and from thereon, matter clustered together, forming clumps that in time condensed into stars, and around many of these stars, planets formed as well. and we're on one of those planets.
i don't see any meaning to my life, per se, and when i die, well, then i'm dead. end of game.

 

[BradCube]

ok, the party thing, yeah, thats an example of someone just being funny, but for the world and universe, the Big Bang is totally valid as a reasoning. And from there on up to the formation of the earth, its totally explainable. You can't rule out what would be a fairly valid comment. To say that God exists because of those questions, but you then say you're not allowed to answer plausible things is just setting it up into a trap.

The big bang formed the universe, and from thereon, matter clustered together, forming clumps that in time condensed into stars, and around many of these stars, planets formed as well. and we're on one of those planets.
i don't see any meaning to my life, per se, and when i die, well, then i'm dead. end of game.

The reason I threw in the "Big Bang" Theory, is for exactly the reasoning you metioned. It does not prove anything but rather instead explains a period of time. While it may go into intricacies of what happend whilst the universe was being formed, it does not explain why and how it began. In simpler terms, how did that dense piece of matter get there?

This is why I suggested that this reasoning was not valid - it simply avoids the answer the orginal question exludes to.

WAF, I am totally lost in your response, could you expand plz? Ta

 

[Generator]

The reason I threw in the "Big Bang" Theory, is for exactly the reasoning you metioned. It does not prove anything but rather instead explains a period of time. While it may go into intricacies of what happend whilst the universe was being formed, it does not explain why and how it began. In simpler terms, how did that dense piece of matter get there?

This is why I suggested that this reasoning was not valid - it simply avoids the answer the orginal question exludes to.

Ah, yet your reasoning is valid? That because something has not yet been answered, there must be a god and that this particular entity is an answer in itself? If you are willing to take such a line of attack, then surely the idea that there is no god must be just as valid? In other words, why must there be a god? Don't just respond by saying that it is evident in the world around us, because though that may be reason enough for you, it's hardly indicative of a higher force (such as a god).

Ps, the fact that institutional religion and faith offer hope and comfort (and something to fear) to many isn't to say that they are correct and that a god or higher force actually exists, it's merely to say that they offer hope and comfort (and something to fear).

 

[davin]

how did god come into existance? and don't do any silly answers like "well, God always was in existance"

as for the big bang, one of the recent theories i had read had to deal with what goes in in black holes being potentially similar to universe formation, and if the two were somehow connected. a sort of situation of nested universes, so to speak.

also, the idea of the big bang falls under two things. first of all, prior to the big bang, there wasn't actually a concept of "before". that is to say, the big bang was the creation not only of the universe but also of time. hense terms like space-time continuum. Now, there is some question as to if the universe is cyclical, and that its simply that a big bang happens, the galaxy expands, collapses, and then anotehr big bang. There's some question as to if some of the universal constants is speeding up the universe's expansion or not, though, but there is some evidence indicating that the universe is expanding faster now.

 

[BradCube]

Ah, yet your reasoning is valid? That because
something has not yet been answered, there must be a god and that this
particular entity is an answer in itself? If you are willing to take
such a line of attack, then surely the idea that there is no god must
be just as valid? In other words, why must there be a god? Don't just
respond by saying that it is evident in the world around us, because
though that may be reason enough for you, it's hardly indicative of a
higher force (such as a god).
Ps, the fact that institutional religion and faith offer hope and
comfort (and something to fear) to many isn't to say that they are
correct and that a god or higher force actually exists, it's merely to
say that they offer hope and comfort (and something to fear).

I see your point, and it is a fantastic one. If it is possible to say
that God could be there from nothing then it is possible to say that
the beginnings of the universe could exist from nothing also right?
What an eye opener, I never thought of it like that.

There are still a few reason's why would not believe this however. The
first is the reason you suggested I do not suggest. In that this world
is evident enough. I fail how you can think that it is not indictative
of a higher existance. I mean seriously, the chances of this world
exsiting without supernatural intervention are a practical
impossiblity. From the research I have seen it seems that rather a
universe being formmed in which we exist, the universe has been formed
so that we can exist. It's too bad I'm not at home at the moment, or I
would find some links or something to this research because it really
is intriguing. (I may re-edit this post when I get home tonight)

The second reason, is that without a God there is no reason. This is
not to say that things don't happen without reason, but rather that if
there is no God, then you and I have no reason - no meaning, no
purpose, no nothing. What were we created to live for in this case,
die? I am baffled that someone would choose to believe this when there
is just as much of an argument that a purposful creation of the
universe is possible. Why would someone choose to ignore the opposite
side of the argument when it's implications are so far reaching and
purposeful? Because they don't want a purpose for thier life? I doubt
this however. I think it is because we would rather live a life for
oursleves. I mean if God existed then that means that right and wrong
would also exist right? Who wants to be told they are wrong when
society at the moment can label everyone as "right for themselves".

If God could exist then surley it would be wise to look at both sides
unbiasedly? If he does exist and we choose to ignore him simply
because we don't want him to exist we will not change anything.
Automatically assuming He does not exist simply on the basis that we
don't want him to will get us no closer to find a true unbiased
conclusion.

I would not agree that a belief in God offers hope and comfort. Sure
maybe in the knowledge to the big questions in life, but as I have
pointed out, the possibility of Gods existance has far reaching
implications. I'm assuming you were suggesting hell as one of them,
and as you said this is not comfortable. It also comes to an exsitance
of absolute truth. That means that if God exists, we are wrong, and
can be told by him that we need to change even though we don't want
to. What's more if we don't change then we are disobeying God. Is
persecution for a belief in God comforting? I doubt it, yet it happens
all over the world.

I would suggest that a belief in God is not the hope and comfort that
you make it out to be. Far from it. A belief in God is the hard path
to follow because it means that we have to admit to oursleves that we
are wrong and willing to change. Ignoring the possibility of God seems
the far easier option to me because, practically, we become the god of
our own lives. And who in their right mind would change that to amdit
they are wrong and need to live differently?

 

[BradCube]

how did god come into existance? and don't do any silly answers like "well, God always was in existance"

as for the big bang, one of the recent theories i had read had to deal with what goes in in black holes being potentially similar to universe formation, and if the two were somehow connected. a sort of situation of nested universes, so to speak.

also, the idea of the big bang falls under two things. first of all, prior to the big bang, there wasn't actually a concept of "before". that is to say, the big bang was the creation not only of the universe but also of time. hense terms like space-time continuum. Now, there is some question as to if the universe is cyclical, and that its simply that a big bang happens, the galaxy expands, collapses, and then anotehr big bang. There's some question as to if some of the universal constants is speeding up the universe's expansion or not, though, but there is some evidence indicating that the universe is expanding faster now.

If you would refute me the logic in saying that God always was in existance then what more logic should I give you in saying that the universe was always in existance?

You mentioned the creation of time starting at the beginning of the universe. While I can understand this, surely this is only a play on words to try and throw of the possiblility of a purposeful creation of the universe. How about instead of saying "before", we say "started" instead. The actual answer has not changed. I think it seems that we would try and make it impossible to ask the question, that demands an answer, simply so we do not have to answer.

 

[davin]

i meant to mention taht restriction only in that you feel that restriction should apply to my arguement.

to use occim's razor on the whole concept for a moment (the idea that the simplest explanation, thats not adding in new concepts and such, is often the right one)
first, there are two possibilities... one is that nothing can have always existed and must have come from soemthing, and the other is that it is possible for something to have always existed.

in the first case, then, something must've started the universe. now, this is where you introduce the concept of god, but then, what started god? and here we enter a loop of higher and higher levels of creators and there is no simple "God".

in the second case, then the universe existed forever, and there's no need to add a "God" concept into the mix. Its an unneccesary complexity.


Pascal's wager, the idea that it is better to believe in God, because if you're right, you win, and if you're wrong, there's not much of a cost in just beleiveing in something, while an arguement for why to be religious in the sense that you can hedge your bets, is not an arguement that there is a God directly.

 

[iambored]

Yup, got it in one. So yes, it definatley does affect my decision. If I wasn't I don't think I would still be a virgin to be honest.

What happens if for some reason you become a non-believer? Would you still wait?

you will be living with this person knowing that you will be reaching different destinations.

How do you know that? What if you're still both going to the same destination? Do you really think God would pick and choose his people, that only the people who believed in him would go to heaven and the others would go to hell? That all the other good people would be punished just because they believed something different, just because they weren't brought up as Christians?

(Maybe they won't go to 'hell' - but if they will not go to hell, then where else would they go? Christians believe there is only one God and so Buddhists musn't be getting reincarnated etc.)

 

[BradCube]

Hey davin, just letting you know that I am going to move my/our/and everyone else's discussion on the God vs Atheist issue to the "Does God Exist" Thread:

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=96067

Hope that is okay, I will quote you in there I think so you know where we are up to

 

[BradCube]

What happens if for some reason you become a non-believer? Would you still wait?

Yes I would, simply because of the logic I see in Gods plan. For all of the reasons about this issue I have discussed previously I would still be waiting. If I did not have this knowledge or was never a christian (and therefore would not seek that knowledge) it may be a different story.

 

[Danoz The Great]

I think that if you really love and care deeply for somebody then sex is okay.
I don't understand why you 'have to' wait until marriage to share your love with somebody when you have loved them over a long time.

 

[Danoz The Great]

By the way...
please don't question my opinion from a religious point of view. You'll only just piss me off

 

[BradCube]

By the way...
please don't question my opinion from a religious point of view. You'll only just piss me off

That's why I tried to move the main convo into the "Does God Exist" thread, so don't worry

 

[Danoz The Great]

That's why I tried to move the main convo into the "Does God Exist" thread, so don't worry

I'm not worried... I just hate elitists

 

[ElGronko]

Wow, like 1/3 people say they wouldn't.

I did not expect that.

I don't really get it either. Whether you are married with someone or not does not make your feelings any lesser or greater.

I mean, what is the difference between a couple who have been together for 3 years and are unmarried, to a couple who have been together for the same amount of time and are married?

Doesn't make sense.

 

[erin_tonkin]

i think its because when you make a marriage vow you make a pretty big commitment. thats the difference. in any relationship you are free to leave at any time no (or few) strings attatched but whith a marriage its different.

Although so many people are getting married and divorced nowerdays it does kind of lessen the significance of the wedding vows. Yet many people still see them as something of great significance.

 

[erin_tonkin]

yeah thats the thing i wouldnt like. ur first time to be such a mistake. and then u regret it.

Im going to get married at 20. sure beats the dating game which is just sooo much crap!

 

[yy]

yeah thats the thing i wouldnt like. ur first time to be such a mistake. and then u regret it.

Im going to get married at 20. sure beats the dating game which is just sooo much crap!

are you engaged yet?
i know someone who got engaged at the age of 18 then broke up a few months later. not saying that it will happen to you of course.
but you sound like you already has set your eyes on someone.

 

[mt87]

havnt had sex yet still a vigin... so i just dont care if i hav sex b4 marriage....it really depends on ur religion...

 

[flipsyde]

it really depends on ur religion...

*rolls eyes*

... sigh u havent been reading these posts have you? no wonder you're still a virgin