Sex - Worth the wait? (3 Viewers)

[crustafa]

Explain the idea of waiting.

ie

Self-worth
Securities/Insecurities
Virginity (in relation to worth)

ie What does waiting for sex mean to you and how are you sure that you are not blindly following the traditions that you were raised with?

The idea of waiting. The idea of waiting is not a 'self righteous' power trip.

Firstly i beleive it's romantic. The fact that i have abstained from marriage solely so i could say my wife is the only person i've slept with. Similarly i would find it romantic if she did the same. What i am not saying is that either my wife or i would be lesser people if we had sex before marriage. I'm just saying it's a choice i have made.

self worth in relation to waiting.... Waiting does not give me a sense of self-worth. I don't feel anymore superior to someone else who hasn't waited.

What does sex mean to me?

a lot.

basically it's the furthest you can go with someone isn't it. From there there is nowhere to go. I don't want to do that with more than one person. I don't want to know or be known that intimately by more than one person. that's just me, and i'm not saying "you're the devil" if you think otherwise.

how do i know i'm not following religion blindly? I've seen it, (the concept of waiting),work. I know a lot of couples that have abstained until marriage, and are so glad they have waited. They are couples i respect. they have a relationship that i would want to strive for.

I have never met someone who regretted waiting.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

All of those words you used crustafa are not insults usually thrown at someone for having sex before marriage, they're insults for people that sleep around alot, are easy, are bitches etc.

Why? Because there is something intrinsic within us that tells us that those terms are a bad thing to be called.

No... If I go over to africa and call the tribe elder a fat skank none of them will care, because they don't understand english --'

Maybe it's not tradition.

What else could it be?

Maybe it's moral conscience.

• Why must we follow our conscience?
• Our conscience is likely mostly made up of tradition/history/things we've learnt more than basic instincts.
• This REALLY isn't a good argument for saving sex until after marriage...

Hence the term 'sexually immoral' - sex has alot to do with morality.

What?...

• The existance of the term 'sexually immoral' shows that sometimes there is a need to discuss issues relating to sexual morals.
• Sex has alot to do with everything. Also, your main problem with this whole moral argument is that our morals are just as worthy as yours.

What if the most 'free' people are those that are bound up.

I agree with this, however no one here is asking for 'free' sexuality where anything goes, there are rules, alot of them created through the social interactions the two people have with each other.

basically it's the furthest you can go with someone isn't it. From there there is nowhere to go.

Hahahahha no. If you think humans are that simple... I'm sorry, there's still alot more to go.

I've seen it, (the concept of waiting),work.

I've seen it monumentally fail... Kids that are so scared of losing their virginity they start having anal sex etc lolz. The statistics also support the idea that generally, those vowing to maintain their virginity - Fail.

I know a lot of couples that have abstained until marriage, and are so glad they have waited.

...why though? It's such an arbitrary time to wait until, especially given the divorce rate.

I have never met someone who regretted waiting.

The extremely few people who do wait until marriage, for religious reasons, are generally... fanatics.

 

[Born Dancer]

The idea of waiting. The idea of waiting is not a 'self righteous' power trip.

Firstly i beleive it's romantic. The fact that i have abstained from marriage solely so i could say my wife is the only person i've slept with. Similarly i would find it romantic if she did the same. What i am not saying is that either my wife or i would be lesser people if we had sex before marriage. I'm just saying it's a choice i have made.

self worth in relation to waiting.... Waiting does not give me a sense of self-worth. I don't feel anymore superior to someone else who hasn't waited.

What does sex mean to me?

a lot.

basically it's the furthest you can go with someone isn't it. From there there is nowhere to go. I don't want to do that with more than one person. I don't want to know or be known that intimately by more than one person. that's just me, and i'm not saying "you're the devil" if you think otherwise.

how do i know i'm not following religion blindly? I've seen it, (the concept of waiting),work. I know a lot of couples that have abstained until marriage, and are so glad they have waited. They are couples i respect. they have a relationship that i would want to strive for.

I have never met someone who regretted waiting.

just to let you know, a lot of these things apply to people who dont wait.

 

[crustafa]

Crustafa

My boyfriend's parents were highschool sweethearts, lost their virginity to each other, now have 3 children, love each other and to this day HAVE NOT MARRIED. They intend to keep it that way too.

I don't know about you but clearly you can see that your ideas of giving it to someone special, committment and love... (if you minus religion out of this) marriage is just a title that reassures you that it is indeed to someone who intends to commit to you etc.

I don't know what your problem is crustafa. Sex out of wedlock does not mean promiscuity.

i think that your parents' story is fantastic. honestly.

For me personally, i believe that marriage is more than just a title that reassures me. I believe marriage is SO much more than that, and that's why i believe sex is for marriage.

 

[jimmayyy]

I have never met someone who regretted waiting.

you, sir, are a bafoon.

 

[ur_inner_child]

For me personally, i believe that marriage is more than just a title that reassures me. I believe marriage is SO much more than that, and that's why i believe sex is for marriage.

If its more, explain it to me...

 

[crustafa]

All of those words you used crustafa are not insults usually thrown at someone for having sex before marriage, they're insults for people that sleep around alot, are easy, are bitches etc.

If pre-marital sex is okay, then why shouldn't sleeping around alot be considered the norm? How is there a line, and who can define it?

I agree with this, however no one here is asking for 'free' sexuality where anything goes, there are rules, alot of them created through the social interactions the two people have with each other.

How so? (before i start, i'm not saying all people who have premarital sex are premiscuous - sorry about the spelling). If you can have sex when you want, (i.e. before marriage), and with whom you want, (i.e. someone who isn't your spouse), then how is that not 'free' sexuality?

 

[jimmayyy]

^i dont think anyone else has to define it other than the person it involves.

sex is such a personal thing, i dont think it is ANYONE elses business, lest alone the rest of society who judge you for it.

on a related topic

promiscuious girlllllll
wherever you areeeee
im all aloneee
and its you that i waaaant

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If pre-marital sex is okay, then why shouldn't sleeping around alot be considered the norm? How is there a line, and who can define it?

Not everyone wants to sleep around alot, alot of people (just like you) want to find someone they truly like. There is also nothing wrong with sleeping around alot, even if you're just doing it for fun, those words are really immature insults.

There's no need to define any sort of 'line', everything that is 'acceptable' will be 'acceptable'... i.e. Maybe you want to sleep around, well ok, but then person X isn't going to want to sleep with you because you sleep around alot - That's the risk you took. Basically, I would argue people are generally constrained enough by their society to never take things too far, and when things do get taken too far (but society doesn't punish them for it), well maybe that's now a part of the norm.

If you can have sex when you want, (i.e. before marriage), and with whom you want, (i.e. someone who isn't your spouse), then how is that not 'free' sexuality?

Because you can't always have sex with whoever you want. You might really like Jessie from down the street, but you know what - She doesn't like you. Basic social interactions like this are more than enough to hold us back... You have freedom, but this freedom has limitations due to other people's freedom - So essentially, you sometimes have to not do what you want to do, in order to get an outcome that you feel will be, on the whole, better for you.

 

[ur_inner_child]

If pre-marital sex is okay, then why shouldn't sleeping around alot be considered the norm? How is there a line, and who can define it?

Why does it need to be defined? Our education system dictates teaching children about the precautions of sex, contraceptions and our personal health. Even through such an education, many still choose to wait, others do not. We are free to hold different values by our better judgement. Why define a line that you do not participate in? It is such a personal thing that varies from each person, who are you to say that their values have crossed the line?

How so? (before i start, i'm not saying all people who have premarital sex are premiscuous - sorry about the spelling).

But you are by previously calling them "whores" and "skanks". You are equating premarital sex to promiscuity.

If you can have sex when you want, (i.e. before marriage), and with whom you want, (i.e. someone who isn't your spouse), then how is that not 'free' sexuality?

But their not necessarily skanks so why mention it?

EDIT: And what Not-That-Bright said. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[crustafa]

If its more, explain it to me...

okay...

Marriage for me is...

• A commitment. (not that people cannot have commitment without being married, it's not what i'm saying.) But a vow to love someone until death do you part - that's huge. I don't think it's something to be taken lightly. at all.
• Marriage is legally legitimate. i.e. The government recognises and acknowledges that two people have made such a commitment.
• Spiritual. I'll spare the details, as i know no-one wants to hear it.
• Sexual. If i have waited until the day i got married, then obviously marriage is going to also be about sex. I'm not saying that people who don't make marriage about sex is wrong. This is what marriage is to me.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

A commitment. (not that people cannot have commitment without being married, it's not what i'm saying.) But a vow to love someone until death do you part - that's huge. I don't think it's something to be taken lightly. at all.

• As you noted, such a commitment can happen without being married.
• The vow, while rhetorically meaning quite a bit - In practice, we can see, often means very little.

Marriage is legally legitimate. i.e. The government recognises and acknowledges that two people have made such a commitment.

• Few people care that the government see's them as a couple, the government should mind its own business.
• The only real reason to marry for the government is to recieve the benefits which a married couple does, all this requires is filling out some forms - I'd argue this is quite a 'different' version of marriage to what you like to imagine. After all, you could just get married whenever you're with someone you like, the government doesn't enforce a 'till death do you part' clause.

Sexual. If i have waited until the day i got married, then obviously marriage is going to also be about sex. I'm not saying that people who don't make marriage about sex is wrong. This is what marriage is to me.

• Your marriage WON'T be about sex? I think you're kidding yourself. Sex is probably a very decent part of being a couple, particularily in your early years. You can love each other alot, but chances are if you're not having sex too often, you'll probably start moving apart.
  
• Also - You can have a relationship that isn't about sex WITHOUT getting married.

So what are we left with once we get rid of the ones that can be done without marriage and the spiritual? Getting a marriage so that the government's happy? Sure - To you it may seem great and that's fine for you, but I hope you can see how some other people may place less value in it.

 

[alby]

sorry about the flaming, but it needs to happen - you're saying a lot of highly stuipid/naive stuff here, you should understand what's being said and what's happening before you comment.

What i am not saying is that either my wife or i would be lesser people if we had sex before marriage.

why do i keep getting the message from your posts that you DO think people are lesser, have done something wrong, etc. others are probably getting these same messsages

basically it's the furthest you can go with someone isn't it. From there there is nowhere to go. I don't want to do that with more than one person. I don't want to know or be known that intimately by more than one person.

sex isnt just sex, there's millions of ways to keep sex (and every other aspect of a relationship) entertaining and enjoyable. if sex was the furthest one could go, then why not marry, fuck, and die?
and intamacy IS not soley from sex!!! you get more intamacy in a relationship without fucking them than you would with a fuck buddy. and if you're talking purely about physical intamacy, then why the hell do you bother thinking about relationships and marriage?

I have never met someone who regretted waiting.

second-hand experiences do not make something right

If pre-marital sex is okay, then why shouldn't sleeping around alot be considered the norm? How is there a line, and who can define it?

its not the norm because you dont have the majority of people doing it on a regular basis. social acceptability and norms are two VERY different things. sleeping around may be seen in some small communities, but you dont have huge majorities of people accepting it, let alone doing it.
as the name would suggest, social acceptability is defined by the majority of the society. it can be shaped and changed if a lot of people believe otherwise and challange it. different groups (social, religious, cultural, friendship, etc) have different morals, values and beliefs, these influence and impact on (ie. decide) the acceptability of attitudes, actions, etc of the group as a whole. eg. certain dress codes may be acceptable here, but may not in other countries and cultures

If you can have sex when you want, (i.e. before marriage), and with whom you want, (i.e. someone who isn't your spouse), then how is that not 'free' sexuality?

that's free choice! free sexuality entitles people to have gay and straight relationships, be involved with multiple people (orgies/swingers/open relationships), etc

 

[AsyLum]

You're obviously a born-again Christian, now get fucked and stop trying to convince us that we're living in sin.

I hate quoting myself, but ffs threadstarter.

 

[crustafa]

As you noted, such a commitment can happen without being married.

• The vow, while rhetorically meaning quite a bit - In practice, we can see, often means very little.

I don't want it to mean very little. it will not mean very little for me. i'm not saying it means a whole lot for everyone but if i am going to stand there and take a vow i am goign to mean it.

• Your marriage WON'T be about sex? I think you're kidding yourself. Sex is probably a very decent part of being a couple, particularily in your early years. You can love each other alot, but chances are if you're not having sex too often, you'll probably start moving apart.
• Also - You can have a relationship that isn't about sex WITHOUT getting married.

I didn't say that. at all. Direct quote: "then obviously marriage is going to also be about sex" Heck yes my marriage will be about sex. Did you miss that part?

So what are we left with once we get rid of the ones that can be done without marriage and the spiritual? Getting a marriage so that the government's happy? Sure - To you it may seem great and that's fine for you, but I hope you can see how some other people may place less value in it.

For me personally, the spiritual aspect of marriage is HUGE. It's the main aspect. I know you don't agree, but for me it's not something to be written off.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

For me personally, the spiritual aspect of marriage is HUGE. It's the main aspect. I know you don't agree, but for me it's not something to be written off.

Sorry about getting the sex part wrong btw - But in the end, can you see why marriage might mean very little to some people? Other than the spiritual aspect (of which others will have a different opinion) I would argue you can get all those other outcomes without a marriage just as easily as with one.

 

[alby]

you can get the spiritual aspect out of a relationship without marriage. marriage is basically just a recognised confirmation of the commitment between 2 people. you can do everything a married couple can, you just dont have that certificate and those rings *shrugs*

 

[crustafa]

Sorry about getting the sex part wrong btw - But in the end, can you see why marriage might mean very little to some people? Other than the spiritual aspect (of which others will have a different opinion) I would argue you can get all those other outcomes without a marriage just as easily as with one.

yes i can. it doesn't mean very much to some people.

i was asked however, what marriage is to me. that's what it is to me.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yes i can. it doesn't mean very much to some people.

i was asked however, what marriage is to me. that's what it is to me.

Well then why even ask this question like you needed help mate? You know why marriage means very little to some people and why they might not want to marry, for you marriage means more (mainly due to spiritual reasons) so you'll prefer to get married before having sex.

big sigh.

If i share my opinion, (and as does everyone else on this thread), why is it that they are not told to "stop trying to force your opinion on others"?

Because they didn't start a thread about sex before marriage, under the veil of 'curiosity' so they can launch into spiels about how sex before marriage is wrong. You accept that for some people marriage can mean very little and that for all practical purposes the only reason you'd particularily want a marriage is for spiritual/cultural reasons...

If you don't HAVE those spiritual/cultural inclinations then you have NO need for a marriage.

It's just that simple.

 

[ElGronko]

I used the words "skank" and "whore". Not at anyone. I wasn't calling anyone anything. i have said SO many times that my opinion is not above everyone else's, and that i'm not degrading anyone who doesn't agree. I was making a point that certain words that carry a connotation of sexual promiscuity are often seen as negative. I wasn't attacking anyone. If i share my opinion, (and as does everyone else on this thread), why is it that they are not told to "stop trying to force your opinion on others"? Isn't that what's happening? are they not doing the same thing? But it's easier to single out the other guy isn't it.

I'm not the one telling people to "get f***ed and get laid" - is that not seen as trying to shove their opinion down my throat?

Except for the fact you haven't justified your position at all. Your arguments are stupid and redundant.

Lets reflect:


1. STD's - Disproved by the fact that they are very easy to avoid if you try. Just by using a condom your chances are 3/10000. When coupled with a simple question they go down further. With other contraceptive measures you've got better chance of being hit by lightning.


2. if two people who have never had sex before wait until marriage - both would be perfectly content with each other. - Disproved as it is naive and stupid. People know what feels good.

3. A survey in America was conducted about who the most sexually satisfied people were...it turned out that Christian females were at the top of the list - females that waited until marriage. - First show me the survey, then show me how it who it was conducted by. Even if it is true it is because they are ignorant and are subjugated and suppressed with their incompetent and malperforming redneck husbands.
Also, it says christian females, nothing about them being celibate. I've had sex with a christian and she seemed pretty fuckin satisfied.

4. Sure it's not romantic for a guy to say to his wife "I love you SO much that i have waited my entire life to have sex with you". - Yeah, heaps romantic, i'm sure she'll swoon when he splatters all over her silk nightly after awkwardly missing the mark.

5. The belief that sex is more than a physical act, but also spiritual/emotional - Sex is a purely physical act. Admittedly strong emotions make it better, but it is still just a physical thing when there are no emotions attached. And just because you do it just for the physical once, it doesn't mean you can never do it emotionally/spiritually the next time.

6. If sex was so good - then why are prostitutes so miserable? This is the funniest one. Disproved countless ways. See earlier post.


Your arguments actually don't make sense. Think about your arguments. Now imagine that you had a significantly larger wang and knew you were going to perform well. Notice how you no longer care about the "waiting" bit?

Your justifications don't make sense.

Also, as i said earlier, you are going to have a hard time finding a virgin to marry in your mid twenties. And she'll probably be a lowie when you do find her. Then, because she is a virgin you will feel a compulsion to marry her because there really aren't too many out there. Is that true love?

Except for one girl in my art history class who was mega hot and was always nice to me, and i was like, woah, I might actually have a chance with this chick, until we were hanging out at manning and it turned out she was a staunch christian and i felt used because she was only being nice to me because god was listening and shit, so she was trying to buy her way into heaven.

You could marry her I guess. On your honeymoon, please get flicks and post.

kthnx.