Should 4WDs be banned from the city? (2 Viewers)

[Iron]

Ok, if you two will allow me to arbitrate this matter:

Kway believes that people should ride whales and ponies etc, pending a scientific sign of consent from the orgasm,yes?
Ancly believes that cars should be ridden, maybe even fwds, and that accidents are wrong of society, yes?

Well it is clear to me where the middle road is and I hope we all found it here today
I'm Iron iron and this has been hypocriticals

 

[Ancly]

Okay ill dumb it down a bit for you okay yeah?

1. Modern 4WDs have a vast array of safety features for both occupants and other road users. This comes with the price premium.
2. People movers are generally terrible unsafe cars with dynamics not that disimilar to a 4WD.
3. You lack human decency.
4. Referring to 1., this price premium that 4WD owners pay to give their family a safety advantage over other idiot road users is the source of a jealousy that is present in all passenger car owners. Which leads to negative opinons and generalisations of 4WD owners "hate 4WDs, or more importantly, the poor drivers who drive them (I'm looking at you, soccer mums - get a station wagon or a van, ffs, you don't need a 4WD). I can't see around them, they're intimidating and driven intimidatingly".

 

[Kwayera]

Okay ill dumb it down a bit for you okay yeah?

1. Modern 4WDs have a vast array of safety features for both occupants and other road users. This comes with the price premium.
2. People movers are generally terrible unsafe cars with dynamics not that disimilar to a 4WD.
3. You lack human decency.
4. Referring to 1., this price premium that 4WD owners pay to give their family a safety advantage over other idiot road users is the source of a jealousy that is present in all passenger car owners. Which leads to negative opinons and generalisations of 4WD owners "hate 4WDs, or more importantly, the poor drivers who drive them (I'm looking at you, soccer mums - get a station wagon or a van, ffs, you don't need a 4WD). I can't see around them, they're intimidating and driven intimidatingly".

1. Aren't most of those safety features (ABS, air bags, etc) generally standard on most modern cars? Genuine question.
2. Perhaps, but they make more sense than a 4WD, when they can generally hold more people and have a lower centre of gravity. Correct me if I am wrong.
3. Lol okay.
4. I don't think most people are jealous of 4WDs. I'm certainly not, and I have no idea where you got that opinion from. They hate them because they are a menace. If you lived on my street, with 50 4WDs battling for parking supremacy during school rush hours every day, you'd feel the same.

 

[Iron]

It would seem that the main tones of hostility im picking up are perhaps,
sexual?
Am i correct?

 

[untouchablecuz]

your ideas are intriguing to me and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter

 

[Ancly]

1. Aren't most of those safety features (ABS, air bags, etc) generally standard on most modern cars? Genuine question.
2. Perhaps, but they make more sense than a 4WD, when they can generally hold more people and have a lower centre of gravity. Correct me if I am wrong.
3. Lol okay.
4. I don't think most people are jealous of 4WDs. I'm certainly not, and I have no idea where you got that opinion from. They hate them because they are a menace. If you lived on my street, with 50 4WDs battling for parking supremacy during school rush hours every day, you'd feel the same.

1. Im talking more advanced than that.
2. Generally they carry the same. Vans are terrible. People movers have lower centers of gravity, yes.
3.
4. I think some people must be. I see plenty of 4WDs around lol they are just taller cars. Also another advantage which high end 4WDs is the introduction of parking sensors and rearview cameras etc which offer a far better view than the average passenger car. VE commodores are terrible and have massive blind spots (not the only one but a good example). A 4WD with a rearview camera would be better than it at being able to see hazards (small children around a school?) than a sedan, wouldnt you think?

 

[Kwayera]

1. Im talking more advanced than that.
2. Generally they carry the same. Vans are terrible. People movers have lower centers of gravity, yes.
3.
4. I think some people must be. I see plenty of 4WDs around lol they are just taller cars. Also another advantage which high end 4WDs is the introduction of parking sensors and rearview cameras etc which offer a far better view than the average passenger car. VE commodores are terrible and have massive blind spots (not the only one but a good example). A 4WD with a rearview camera would be better than it at being able to see hazards (small children around a school?) than a sedan, wouldnt you think?

1. Like what?
2. I think you misinterpreted me. I don't mean a van as in like the transit work vans, I meant like.. a people mover. Some people call them different things, so I used both terms commonly in usage.
3.
4. Taller and wider, and yeah, I'm sure some people are jealous, but I doubt the majority of 4WD haters are. And rear-vision cameras are standard on some models of 4WD, optional on others, and this is all the same as with sedans - standard or optional, depending on the car and the make. And yeah, I agree, I don't think Commodores are the best cars on the planet, but I don't think a 4WD with a read vision camera would necessarily be safer, and if then, only in reversing. *shrug*

 

[Ancly]

1. Like what?
2. I think you misinterpreted me. I don't mean a van as in like the transit work vans, I meant like.. a people mover. Some people call them different things, so I used both terms commonly in usage.
3.
4. Taller and wider, and yeah, I'm sure some people are jealous, but I doubt the majority of 4WD haters are. And rear-vision cameras are standard on some models of 4WD, optional on others, and this is all the same as with sedans - standard or optional, depending on the car and the make. And yeah, I agree, I don't think Commodores are the best cars on the planet, but I don't think a 4WD with a read vision camera would necessarily be safer, and if then, only in reversing. *shrug*

1."In addition to daytime running lights and a Tire Pressure Monitor System (TPMS), the Land Cruiser also comes equipped with Toyota's Star Safety System. This system features Vehicle Stability Control, Active Traction Control, a Multi-Terrain anti-lock brake system, Electronic Brake Force Distribution and Brake Assist. Crash protection features standard on every Land Cruiser include driver and front passenger air bags - including knee air bags, second-row outboard seat-mounted side air bags, and three-row roll-sensing side curtain air bags with a cut-off switch. Also standard are driver and front passenger active headrests, energy-absorbing soft upper trim, side-impact door beams, and a Child Restraint System. Driver and front passenger seat-mounted side air bags are optional."

For example.

4. Yeah but what i mean is that im thinking that the sterotyped 4WD driver (soccer mum for eg, people who only have them for the luxury really) usually drives the more expensive models which have these features as standard.

 

[Kwayera]

1."In addition to daytime running lights and a Tire Pressure Monitor System (TPMS), the Land Cruiser also comes equipped with Toyota's Star Safety System. This system features Vehicle Stability Control, Active Traction Control, a Multi-Terrain anti-lock brake system, Electronic Brake Force Distribution and Brake Assist. Crash protection features standard on every Land Cruiser include driver and front passenger air bags - including knee air bags, second-row outboard seat-mounted side air bags, and three-row roll-sensing side curtain air bags with a cut-off switch. Also standard are driver and front passenger active headrests, energy-absorbing soft upper trim, side-impact door beams, and a Child Restraint System. Driver and front passenger seat-mounted side air bags are optional."

- Daytime running lights - effectiveness, other than looking awesome? (Love the ones on Audis).
- Tire pressure monitor system - to tell you when your tires are running low rather than you checking yourself, I guess. Big safety feature?
- Vehicle Stability Control, Active Traction Control, a Multi-Terrain anti-lock brake system, Electronic Brake Force Distribution and Brake Assist. - do any of these actually reduce crashes, given (especially with all the brake stuff) ABS generally handles most of this?

 

[Napstar]

wHO SAID 4WD'S are like boats to drive.

I've driven a few in my time, and they handle far better than any sedan I've driven/owned.

Shane's Hilux is sweet to drive, the gears just go in so nicely. The Prado feels like you're driving on air, the Cruiser ain't so great around town given it is a truck but on the open road it also glides, esp over dirt roads. Pops new Nissan something or other is p sweet too.

Fairly sure my next car is gon be a 4wd, possibilities include
Kluger
Patrol
That Mitsubishi thing something something 4wd of the year
Peugeot 406 sports wagon
or
was looking at a territory but they guzzle the fuel like you WOULD NOT BELIEVE

 

[Ancly]

I assume it would or they wouldnt have been developed.

Edit: thank you napstar you really helped my argument..
get the peugeot btw. 306 touring wagon

 

[Kwayera]

Guess it just comes down to personal preference and opinion, then. The LC and the Lexus that I drove both felt like big, heavy, awkward vehicles - rather like a boat. No zippiness, no agility.

 

[Ancly]

They feel like that to me also after driving my car for a long time. But so do falcons. Once you adapt to it, it feels normal.

 

[loquasagacious]

I must say that I find the current model falcons to be very very boat-like. Sometimes when I'm driving them I feel I should use an anchor or oar of some kind to turn....

The 4wds I've driven have also been very boat like. The key however is that the centre of gravity is much higher in a 4wd so the rollover tendency would likely be greater.

Also the increased height of a 4wd means that in a collision they will tend to put their front number through the windows of a sedan - e.g. at head height. Two ways to solve that; everyone to have 4wds - or no one.

 

[absorber]

4WDs are a waste of space, they're intimidating to other people, and, further, they're horrible for the environment. They'd make crash scenarios more likely I'd think, as they worsen visibility on roads. What's more, about that 'less likely to be in a crash thing'- my understanding is you've gotta cover the first grand or so of damages yourself, hence it could merely mean 4WD drivers have just as many crashes, but their cars aren't seriously damaged cos they're like fucking tanks.

 

[Ancly]

4WDs are a waste of space, they're intimidating to other people, and, further, they're horrible for the environment. They'd make crash scenarios more likely I'd think, as they worsen visibility on roads. What's more, about that 'less likely to be in a crash thing'- my understanding is you've gotta cover the first grand or so of damages yourself, hence it could merely mean 4WD drivers have just as many crashes, but their cars aren't seriously damaged cos they're like fucking tanks.

all lies

They worsen visibility of what on the roads lol? If anything they increase it as their large size makes them more visible.

How are they horrible for the environment? Compared to what a hyundai i30?

 

[jb_nc]

I drive a 4 WD because if I hit a schoolchild, my bumper bar will make sure I kill them, rather than doing any damage to my much loved car.

 

[absorber]

all lies

They worsen visibility of what on the roads lol? If anything they increase it as their large size makes them more visible.

How are they horrible for the environment? Compared to what a hyundai i30?

1. Higher fucking fuel* consumption is what
2. They're impossible to SEE AROUND. THE FACT THAT THEY'RE BIG IS MY POINT.

 

[Ancly]

1. Higher fucking full consumption is what
2. They're impossible to SEE AROUND. THE FACT THAT THEY'RE BIG IS MY POINT.

1. FUEL?
Compared to what? Lambos have higher fuel consumption, lets ban them.
Modern common rail diesels have better fuel consumption that commodores. suck on that cunt
2. Yeah i guess, if you're a fucking gronk who doesnt know how to drive.

 

[absorber]

Okay ill dumb it down a bit for you okay yeah?

Modern 4WDs have a vast array of safety features for both occupants and other road users.

Safety features, like weighing twice as much as a car?