Should there be an Aboriginal voice to parliament? (2 Viewers)

[nsw..wollongong]

@Aeonium @nsw..wollongong

All I'm gonna say is in the end of the day whoever seems right or wrong is arbitrary (your arguing politics on a study forum) but the difference is this guy is a grown ass man crying about immigrants and muslims in the country non stop and hes not losing anything but you guys are just wasting your free time getting triggered. I'd just block the guy.

See what he posts and the stuff he says and then consider if its worth talking to someone like him over the net, I'd just avoid threads like this since its easy to waste time online (legit twitter/redditor moments).

Not to say that valuable insight cant be yielded by threads like this, but it requires both sides to have some sort of will to understand each other's side and have some form of empathy BUT you're not going to get even 1% of that online. Its better to do this stuff IRL.

you're right but wasn't this thread political in the first place
honestly so tru, appreciate u saying this. this argument would go one for ages without reaching a resolution, no point even trying

 

[carrotsss]

If what the liberals did was enough to piss off China, the only way we're not going to piss them off is to be complete cuckolds who kowtow to them 24/7. And somehow, you think this means we should be MORE dependant on China, not less.

China's list of 14 grievances with Australia:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1328983898911457280

The only way we can stay in the good graces of China is doing everything it wants - becoming more economically dependant on China will only mean they have more and more control over our country with each passing year

I completely agree with you that we should become less reliant on China. However, things like calling for an inquiry into the origins of Covid and denouncing the treatment of Uyghurs, whilst I completely agree with them in principle, are poor diplomatic decisions because they achieve nothing while antagonising China. It’s much better to ease our economy off China by forming other relationships rather than invoking abrupt changes.

The Solomon Islands government is siding with China because China will send their military in to defend the government against civil unrest and crush dissent. It's not because we mistrated them or something, and its absolutely not clear things would have been any different with labor in power. The solomon islands turned away british and american ships too - this isn't because of Australia 'pissing them off'.

Whether or not it’s the liberals’ fault is a separate question but the 2013 comments by tony abbot, Dutton and Morrison certainly didn’t help, and there’s a reason they led to condemnation by pacific nations. But you’re right to an extent, things wouldn’t have been that much better were labor to be in power over that time.

Liberals would have made many increases in light of inflation too. And they have criticized liberals for trying to achieve budget surpluses when the economy was in better shape than it is now.

Labor hasn’t criticised surpluses, they’ve criticised the poor ways that the liberals try to achieve them. The liberals effectively didn’t manage a surplus all through the 2010s pre-Covid, despite decreasing welfare payments as a portion of GDP from 35% in 2014/15 to 31% in 2018/19, and reducing Medicare and a bunch of other government services. The difference between the liberals and labor is that the liberals “tried” to achieve a surplus in much better conditions, while labor actually did it in worse conditions, and without any major cuts to important government services.

 

[ExtremelyBoredUser]

I completely agree with you that we should become less reliant on China. However, things like calling for an inquiry into the origins of Covid and denouncing the treatment of Uyghurs, whilst I completely agree with them in principle, are poor diplomatic decisions because they achieve nothing while antagonising China. It’s much better to ease our economy off China by forming other relationships rather than invoking abrupt changes.

Whether or not it’s the liberals’ fault is a separate question but the 2013 comments by tony abbot, Dutton and Morrison certainly didn’t help, and there’s a reason they led to condemnation by pacific nations. But you’re right to an extent, things wouldn’t have been that much better were labor to be in power over that time.

Labor hasn’t criticised surpluses, they’ve criticised the poor ways that the liberals try to achieve them. The liberals effectively didn’t manage a surplus all through the 2010s pre-Covid, despite decreasing welfare payments as a portion of GDP from 35% in 2014/15 to 31% in 2018/19, and reducing Medicare and a bunch of other government services. The difference between the liberals and labor is that the liberals “tried” to achieve a surplus in much better conditions, while labor actually did it in worse conditions, and without any major cuts to important government services.

Bro shouldve done eco

 

[carrotsss]

Bro shouldve done eco

I wish I did, my parents kept telling me to do eco but for some reason I chose business studies instead

 

[Masaken]

I wish I did, my parents kept telling me to do eco but for some reason I chose business studies instead

YOU PICKED BUSINESS OVER ECO???

this is like top zero, you would've definitely done well based on what i've been reading from this post so far

 

[carrotsss]

YOU PICKED BUSINESS OVER ECO???

this is like top zero, you would've definitely done well based on what i've been reading from this post so far

I KNOWWWWW

I thought business studies would be “useful for life” but it was such a boring bludge, I regret it sm

 

[cosmo 2]

liberals have actually shown a willingness not to completely simp for china at the very least

and what is labor doing for people on welfare?

theyre both shit, but people are acting like labor is radically better or something

labor gave people on jobseeker an extra 2 bucks a day lmfao

can you even buy anything anymore for $2

 

[souli]

labor gave people on jobseeker an extra 2 bucks a day lmfao

can you even buy anything anymore for $2

Maybe something on that temu app that keeps coming up all over my devices.. looks sus tho ngl

 

[cosmo 2]

 

[SylviaB]

Labor hasn’t criticised surpluses, they’ve criticised the poor ways that the liberals try to achieve them. The liberals effectively didn’t manage a surplus all through the 2010s pre-Covid, despite decreasing welfare payments as a portion of GDP from 35% in 2014/15 to 31% in 2018/19, and reducing Medicare and a bunch of other government services. The difference between the liberals and labor is that the liberals “tried” to achieve a surplus in much better conditions, while labor actually did it in worse conditions, and without any major cuts to important government services.

Lol, not increasing spending proportional to inflation IS the same thing as a cut.

 

[SylviaB]

depends -- why are they here? are they escaping from a warzone, are they escaping from poor conditions -- hasn't australia developed a very multicultural identity atp ? i get there's an issue with extremely rich overseas investors buying out property but i really doubt the majority of immigrants are here to do that

Indians are not here because they "escaped a war zone"

And immigrants will buy property if they can and rent if they have to. Both of these things make things worse for people already here.

And there's no "multicultural identity"

non-white australians happily shit all over australian culture and history. They're here because its a rich country, not because they care about or respect anything about australia in any way. I don't have a shared, unified identity with people the chinese people here crying that not enough people on TV are chinese or the sudanese who think they're oppressed by police.

 

[SylviaB]

again who are the "ones"??? u tryna generalise all foreigners under the "uber" umbrella?

Saying 'the ones' is the opposite of generalizing you doofus, I'm literally referring to the particular individuals who do stuff like uber eats

 

[carrotsss]

Lol, not increasing spending proportional to inflation IS the same thing as a cut.

Most things eg welfare are indexed to inflation and they increased many of them in addition to that.

 

[enoilgam]

non-white australians happily shit all over australian culture and history. They're here because its a rich country, not because they care about or respect anything about australia in any way. I don't have a shared, unified identity with people the chinese people here crying that not enough people on TV are chinese or the sudanese who think they're oppressed by police.

Im from an immigrant family and we were always taught that Australia was a great country and we were lucky to be here. My grandfather will happily tell you how much of a shithole Italy was when he left and how much better the conditions are in Australia. Dont get me wrong, we are all proud of our heritage and culture and we do trash Aussies for their lack of culture, but there is an acknowledgement that in terms of government, economics, healthcare and ethics (you know, things that matter), Australia is vastly superior.

I just cant understand how immigrants can come here, especially from third world countries and just completely shit on Australia. It's like, if you hate it so much go back home (which of course they wont, because nostalgia doesn't go far when you consider things like jobs and having a sane government who doesnt execute people because they fail to worship the right God/dictator).

 

[nsw..wollongong]

Saying 'the ones' is the opposite of generalizing you doofus, I'm literally referring to the particular individuals who do stuff like uber eats

why u still crying abt this

 

[cosmo 2]

i dont give a fk if theyre grateful or not theyre here, having more people is ruining this place and destroying quality of life regardless if theyre nice or not

we don't need more ppl

there are no legitimate 'skills shortages', we've been hearing the same claim for over 20 years now and despite immigration getting higher and higher we still hear the same shit year on year

Australia's never-ending skills shortage lie

Crispin Hull has demolished the notion that Australia’s seemingly chronic ‘skills shortage’ can be solved by ramping-up immigration. He argues that Australia has followed this approach for 20 years without success, and repeating the policy is the very “definition of insanity”: So why then, for...

www.macrobusiness.com.au

it's an excuse to crush load the joint

honestly i bitched about covid and lockdown etc but tbh it was the best time ever in a lot of ways. my rent was totally frozen during the period, no cars on the road, no migrants, dont give a fuck about bars/restaurants anyway

since covid ended/borders re-opened my rent has gone up like $60 due to all the regional visa workers moving to dubbo and swallowing the rental supply

to my knowledge there's a considerable difference in opportunity between living here and in india – i don't know why you picked that demographic out of all of them but you do you ?

lol imagine being bewildered at why he did that

go outside for 2 seconds and youll get a pretty clear impression of where most migrants are coming from

 

[SylviaB]

to my knowledge there's a considerable difference in opportunity between living here and in india

So? If we let even 1% of Indians have the "opportunity" of living in Australia, it would completely destroy the country.


Australia already has too many people, and if Indians had a positive impact on a country, India would be a good country. There's nothing magic about Australian soil - Australia's historical majority since founding is the reason it became so, so much better of a country than India. Australia is a much, much younger country than India, it's always had a tiny fraction of the people, most of the land in uninhabitable desert, less of it's land is suitable for agriculture, etc. And yet in the space of a century or two, during most of which only white people were allowed to immigrate here, it grew to be richer than India did in thousands of years. The people make the different.

– i don't know why you picked that demographic out of all of them but you do you ?

Because they're one of the largest sources of immigration to Australia? And like a majority of immigrants to Australia, they're not refugees.

define 'people already here'. does that just mean white australians? (basing this off your point below)

Yes, I mean the people who have made up the overwhelming majority of the country's population since its founding.

no multicultural identity? wow, one search of "australia multicultural identity" and here i have:

Statistics about Cultural and Racial Diversity

Explore the rich, cultural diversity of Australia through statistics and infographics. Learn more about narratives supporting systemic racism.

humanrights.gov.au

"This rich, cultural diversity is one of our greatest strengths. It is central to our national identity."
wow, the literal fucking government of the country says that, you absolute doofus. just because you don't have a multicultural identity, it does not mean others don't.

Why on earth do you thinks this prove anything? A department staffed by 'diversity' lovers, part of a government that is extremely pro-immigration, says that 'diversity good'. OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO SAY THAT.

There's no unifed Australian identity or culture. It's literally called 'multiculturalism'. It's different cultures living together, with no expectation of assimilation.

although i really don't care about australian culture/history, i don't see it getting shit on ? similarly to enoilgam, i at least thought australia was a nice country when i came here a few years ago

Yes, just ignore all of the non-whites constantly calling australia "racist" and "white supremacist" and claiming that white people stole the land from aborigines (while being fine with living on this "stolen" land themselves).

i don't know why you generalised the groups into non-white and white australians, and assumed that non-white australians don't respect anything about australia in any way. how am i meant to respond to such a gross generalisation of the whole immigrant population ? i could apply this same, gross generalisation to australian culture and history, but it would be stupid, so i won't.

Because you made the foolish claim that australia has a "multicultural identity", when most non-whites have different culture and values and identity to white australians (the ones who have ancestry in this country usually dating back a century or more).

And im breaking it into white and non-white because multiculturalism means non-whites living in a white majority country, ultimately.

i don't see many people complaining about demographic representation within australian media – where are you sourcing this from ??

I see it all the time. Qanda is the most obnoxious form of this, but I see articles on the topic on a weekly basis.

 

[HazzRat]

So? If we let even 1% of Indians have the "opportunity" of living in Australia, it would completely destroy the country. If Indians had a positive impact on a country, India would be a good country. There's nothing magic about Australian soil - Australia's historical majority since founding is the reason it became so, so much better of a country than India.



Because they're one of the largest sources of immigration to Australia? And like a majority of immigrants to Australia, they're not refugees.



Yes, I mean the people who have made up the overwhelming majority of the country's population since its founding.



Why on earth do you thinks this prove anything? A department staffed by 'diversity' lovers, part of a government that is extremely pro-immigration, says that 'diversity good'. OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO SAY THAT.

There's no unifed Australian identity or culture. It's literally called 'multiculturalism'. It's different cultures living together, with no expectation of assimilation.



Yes, just ignore all of the non-whites constantly calling australia "racist" and "white supremacist" and claiming that white people stole the land from aborigines (while being fine with living on this "stolen" land themselves).



Because you made the foolish claim that australia has a "multicultural identity", when most non-whites have different culture and values and identity to white australians (the ones who have ancestry in this country usually dating back a century or more).

And im breaking it into white and non-white because multiculturalism means non-whites living in a white majority country, ultimately.



I see it all the time. Qanda is the most obnoxious form of this, but I see articles on the topic on a weekly basis.

i regret starting this…

 

[dav53521]

i regret starting this…

Well the writing was somewhat on the wall...

 

[enoilgam]

Just to get this thread back on topic, recent polls in April 2023 and early May 2023 show support for the Voice has fallen. The most recent Roy Morgan Poll from late May 2023 shows this has stabilised a bit. Any thoughts on what caused the fall and is this just a speedbump or perhaps a trend that will continue?

For me, I was shocked to see how the Yes vote has fallen - I thought we were heading for a landslide. The Federal Liberals deciding to go No had a much bigger impact than I thought. I think it has given people "permission" to vote No and not feel so bad about it. The polls definitely open some opportunities for the "No" campaign. If they can focus on just three states as opposed to the overall vote, they can cause a real upset later in the year.

Queensland I feel is shaping up to be a solid "No". Unfortunately, with the youth crime crisis in Queensland I think there is palpable community anger. To put it bluntly, I think given what Queenslanders are seeing on a daily basis, the desire to vote "Yes" there isnt likely to be very high (obviously, Im not endorsing these views or the logic, however it is a factor whether racist or not). I also think there could be a huge hidden No vote in NSW as we saw with the SSM Plebiscite. As with that vote, I think the immigrant community will break significantly for the "No" vote and again, I feel Labour will underestimate this much like they did last time.

I think it could be a bumpy few months for the Yes campaign.