Socialism,Facism,Communism,Nazism & Capitalism (2 Viewers)

[Sheehan :)]

Long Live Heir Hitler
Long Live Un Nazism

 

[Comrade nathan]

The difference i find between socialism and every other type of governance is that it is true freedom.
There is government control of the money, i mean capitalist try to say they're the champions of the people but they don't even trust workers to control the means of producion.

Democartic socialists trust people with money however they don't trust business' with money, Unlike communists.

Communist attempt to abolish money with the State.

 

[Comrade nathan]

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...even that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....

...even that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....


http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mussolini/works/fascism.htm

Thoose paragraphs are abstracts from What is Fascism? by Benito Mussolini.

The website is a Marxist website with large collections for Marxist writings. They use Mussolini examples to show the difference between Marxism and Fascism.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well if i can find it i've been to a website using the exact same speech to show how Fascism is much closer to modern day socialism than capitalist governments.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Well if i can find it i've been to a website using the exact same speech to show how Fascism is much closer to modern day socialism than capitalist governments.

The one thing we should aggree on is the different beliefs on history development are completely in Marxism and Fascism.

 

[slinky]

lol....i have no damn idea of wat u ppl are talking about, but it sounds kinda interesting. so i was wondering if somebody here can give me a rundown on what each of these 'isms' are, or maybe some links to useful sights. thanks

 

[Korn]

What are the main differences between them

 

[paper cup]

russian socialism. now that was interesting...it may have worked if at the time russia wasn't facing all these crises...we'll never know. but basically communism is impractical. capitalism has its faults, but seems to work..for now anyway.

socialism is when the govt has control of the media, businesses etc. capitalism is the opposite. fascism is the right equivalent of socialism - think Nazi regime. Nazism was an extension of fascism. communism is the highest stage of socialism, no government, total equality. yeah. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[loquasagacious]

I personally place socialism eg sweden as between hardline authoritarian communism and the centre (on a conventional left right axis).

On a compass communism is top left quadrant socialism bottom left quadrant.

 

[Comrade nathan]

fascism is the right equivalent of socialism

Could you eleborate on this?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think he/she is saying that facism is to the right what socialism is to the left.... ie they are directly opposites.

 

[Comrade nathan]

I think he/she is saying that facism is to the right what socialism is to the left.... ie they are directly opposites.

That would Capitalism the middle.

Fascism is just a extend of capitalism. When the economy is collapse and the ruling class looks like it may lose power Fascism seems a good option.

 

[paper cup]

I think he/she is saying that facism is to the right what socialism is to the left.... ie they are directly opposites.

she. thank you very much.

 

[loquasagacious]

As comrade nathan says it is an incorrect statement.

The true opposite to communism is laissez faire capitalism, the true opposite to facism is democartic socialism.

This thread is seeing too much of what happens generally in politics occur. As political discriptions democratic socialism is not interchangable with communism.

Socialism is a spectrum it is composed of parts. eg all communists are socialist however all socialists are not communist. Therefore the two terms can not be used interchangably.

Refering again to the political compass socialism as a spectrum occupies both the left hand quadrants running ffrom the two extremes of communism (at the top left) and democratic socialism at the bottom left.

I am personally tired of being tarred and feathered with the same brush as communists.

As a note of interest Marx and Engels (for thsoe out there who don't know: the foundinmg fathers of communism) themselves distinguish between their communist movement and other socialists. Under their definition I am not a communist, rather I am a democratic socialist.

To call all socialists communists is to call spain, sweden and much of the rest of europe communist, which ammounts to idiocy.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I would also like to point out that most facists were against laissez faire..

 

[loquasagacious]

Again a perfecly reasonable assumption as capitalism much like socialism is a spectrum with and authoritave end (facism) and a liberal end (lassiez faire).

Hence much like I disagree with a lot of communism a facist can reasonably disagree with a lot of laissez faire.

Can't anyone else extrapolate information and use a diagram to understand a relationship between groups?????

 

[Comrade nathan]

To call all socialists communists is to call spain, sweden and much of the rest of europe communist, which ammounts to idiocy.

Take note, no reall communist will ever call a country communist. Eg no reall communist calls Cuba a communist state. They call it socialist.

Its a good way to tell if a news report is false. If they say for example "officals from the DPRK said 'the communist state will not back down'..." They have misquoted or just made it up.

The same goes for the word "Stalinist". A country will never call its self Stalinist, and a Stalin supporter will never call themselves a Stalinist. It is a derogatory term used to and created by the Trot (Trot is the derogatory word for Trotskyite, and that again is a derogatory word for what i think they like to be called Trotskyist" to critcise the USSR in the time of Stalin. Stalinist from a non-communist is used to describe any authoritive regime. The people who are called "Stalinist" thos who support Stalin never call themselves "Stalinist". If it is cited in a news report then it is false to, only would-be communist call themselves Stalinist for shock value.

These "Stalinist" pefer to be called anti-revisionist, as they denounce the revisionism of Krushchev. Or if they are more advanced in Marxism-Leninims they will call themselves Maoist, who are anti-revisionist. The reason no one calls themselve "Stalinist" or say they support "Stalinism" is because Stalin never contributed to the theory of Marxism-Leninismm, so therefore there is no ideology of Stalinism.

 

[Comrade nathan]

I would also like to point out that most facists were against laissez faire..

Ofcourse, otherwise they would have kept going with bourgiosie democracy. They need nationalism, unity and conformity fast before the society collapsed.

 

[loquasagacious]

You must spread some rep before giving it to Comrade Nathan again

 

[Comrade nathan]

You must spread some rep before giving it to Comrade Nathan again

What do you mean?