Some are born gay, some achieve gayness, and some have gayness thrust upon them (4 Viewers)

[aussie-boy]

Oh? Not all Catholics share the Catholic POV? Since when my sexually confused fren?

It's not the Catholic POV, its the vatican's POV...
The conflict of opinion has parallels in the acceptance of contraception and abortion by many church going Catholics.

There are many gay catholic organisations, and having been raised from a strong Irish Catholic background, going to a catholic school and being involved in WYD I can happily say that the majority of people are more open minded and accepting of sexuality than you

 

[jules.09]

Hardly anything in this world is done out of love. I hold that power is not the greatest thing, that love is what we should all strive for, but without any power at all nothing is possible.
If love is so good than why is it a problem with who loves who?
With womens and mens roles in society, even from a young age, females are viewed as normal and accepted to being close, holding hands and the like. Males have to act masculine, not feel any emotion, not cry, for fear of being bullied, which usually beats any feeling out of them.
Why does any of this matter today? In an ideal world everyone should be allowed to live as they want as long as they dont hurt anyone else, and yet it is not so because people dont believe that an ideal world is possible. If they did believe that is is possible then maybe things would be different.

Back to the concept of power, what is the richest organisation in the world?

As for the idea of love, I think per person, we genuinely care for a very minute portion. We can be compassionate, but at the forefront of our minds, we operate within the Monkeysphere so to speak.

What is the Monkeysphere? | Cracked.com

As for being gay, I kind of equated it to what someone mentioned earlier, why some people like red, and others don't.. But there's a much stronger social stigma that's attached to homosexuality. Most people tend to supress it and view it as an affliction; maybe because it's also not biologically viable (you can't reproduce within the same sex) that it is seen in such a negative light. I think nurture plays a fair bit in it... I don't know really.

What I don't understand though is, why does it have any relevance to legislation etc. e.g. gay marriage is (un)lawful.

 

[Iron]

It's not the Catholic POV, its the vatican's POV...
The conflict of opinion has parallels in the acceptance of contraception and abortion by many church going Catholics.

There are many gay catholic organisations, and having been raised from a strong Irish Catholic background, going to a catholic school and being involved in WYD I can happily say that the majority of people are more open minded and accepting of sexuality than you

The Vatican is the Catholic Church. Youre either accept the creed we say each mass, or you dont. Youre either a Catholic or you arent.

 

[jules.09]

The Vatican is the Catholic Church. Youre either accept the creed we say each mass, or you dont. Youre either a Catholic or you arent.

Doesn't that make the large majority of people under the banner of Catholicism, not Catholic?

 

[Iron]

Doesn't that make the large majority of people under the banner of Catholicism, not Catholic?

If they refuse to follow what the hierarchy of the Catholic Church says, then yes!

 

[yoddle]

The Vatican is the Catholic Church. Youre either accept the creed we say each mass, or you dont. Youre either a Catholic or you arent.

You wouldn't think love would engender such unthinking following of creed.

As for being gay, I kind of equated it to what someone mentioned earlier, why some people like red, and others don't.. But there's a much stronger social stigma that's attached to homosexuality. Most people tend to supress it and view it as an affliction; maybe because it's also not biologically viable (you can't reproduce within the same sex) that it is seen in such a negative light. I think nurture plays a fair bit in it... I don't know really.

How is something biologically viable? It seems to me that you're trying to apply human rationality to a natural thing. Why does it matter if homosexuals can't reproduce? It's not like we're trying to dominate the world with our sexuality and spell an end to all birth.

 

[Iron]

You wouldn't think love would engender such unthinking following of creed.


.

? The point I was making is that it's not unthinking. Our faith is a living one; we accept the authority of our leaders to instruct us in true morality. If we have some fantastic reason to doubt this instruction, we can enquire up the chain but must accept the Pope's word as final.
You cant just turn up to mass and belt out the creed with no deep conviction of its truth and goodness. That's not what a Catholic is. It's probably blasphemy

 

[yoddle]

? The point I was making is that it's not unthinking. Our faith is a living one; we accept the authority of our leaders to instruct us in true morality. If we have some fantastic reason to doubt this instruction, we can enquire up the chain but must accept the Pope's word as final.
You cant just turn up to mass and belt out the creed with no deep conviction of its truth and goodness. That's not what a Catholic is. It's probably blasphemy

If that's what you call 'love' then maybe you should specify "love of god" as opposed to just "love". The two are different.

 

[Iron]

If that's what you call 'love' then maybe you should specify "love of god" as opposed to just "love". The two are different.

Love of God and love of mankind are different, yes. But for either to be true, they must be linked.

The catch-all way in which you use 'love' is too broad and I suspect it is a variety that can be got by any alchoholic with his tart of rum. Love must be grounded by Truth, which can entail great sacrifice, even of your own life

 

[katie tully]

Hormone imbalance in utero. I'm going to do my PhD on it.

 

[aussie-boy]

If they refuse to follow what the hierarchy of the Catholic Church says, then yes!

Using this definition, I reckon you would exclude the vast majority of your typical weekend congregation from being "catholic"

I define the religion as using important biblical lessons like love in a practical way to contribute as much as you can to society - I feel its this practical drive which sets Catholicism apart from the self fulfilment through personal connections to God ideals of the Church of England and associated evangelist churches

I don't think it has anything to do about how much tripe from the vatican that you are prepared to swallow

 

[Iron]

Using this definition, I reckon you would exclude the vast majority of your typical weekend congregation from being "catholic"

I define the religion as using important biblical lessons like love in a practical way to contribute as much as you can to society - I feel its this practical drive which sets Catholicism apart from the self fulfilment through personal connections to God ideals of the Church of England and associated evangelist churches

I don't think it has anything to do about how much tripe from the vatican that you are prepared to swallow

I like the middle bit!

But numbers are irrelevant. We do our best to get the greatest number, but we cant compromise Truth in the pursuit of this. If many are excluded because they dont follow our creed or the authority which Christ left unto men to act in his name, then so be it. That's a matter for them and their maker.

 

[yoddle]

I'm just mopping up the vomit off the floor.

OK cool, thank you for your opinion it was very interesting.

 

[jules.09]

You wouldn't think love would engender such unthinking following of creed.



How is something biologically viable? It seems to me that you're trying to apply human rationality to a natural thing. Why does it matter if homosexuals can't reproduce? It's not like we're trying to dominate the world with our sexuality and spell an end to all birth.

I think the debate between the ethics of gay marriage etc. IS subjected to human rationality. So in that context, how are we to determine if it is to be legally permissible?

I don't think it matters per se that homosexuals can't reproduce; that wasn't the point. It was just a possible reason why the debate is so controversial, and people like Iron find it in discord with God.

Personally, I am indifferent about homosexuals. They are what they are. They're like us, just different sexual preferences.

 

[Iron]

morally blind. Not surprised
(most people r)

 

[jules.09]

I like the middle bit!

But numbers are irrelevant. We do our best to get the greatest number, but we cant compromise Truth in the pursuit of this. If many are excluded because they dont follow our creed or the authority which Christ left unto men to act in his name, then so be it. That's a matter for them and their maker.

Well Iron, I suppose I'd like to know why, you would try to get the greatest number of 'believers', when you know that numbers are irrelevant. e.g. Non-believing masses who call themselves Catholics.

It can be argued that faith is a matter of choice, and homosexuality, may not be, but as katie tully said, a consequence of hormonal imbalances in utero.

 

[Iron]

Well Iron, I suppose I'd like to know why, you would try to get the greatest number of 'believers', when you know that numbers are irrelevant. e.g. Non-believing masses who call themselves Catholics.

It can be argued that faith is a matter of choice, and homosexuality, may not be, but as katie tully said, a consequence of hormonal imbalances in utero.

Sorry m8, numbers are irrelevant if getting them requires a watering-down of the core doctrine. I conceed that sexuality may be genetic, but I fail to see how that means that the person has no 'choice' in exercing such desires...

 

[katie tully]

Sorry m8, numbers are irrelevant if getting them requires a watering-down of the core doctrine. I conceed that sexuality may be genetic, but I fail to see how that means that the person has no 'choice' in exercing such desires...

lol ok

hey i was born with down syndrome. i know it's genetic, BUT I CAN CHOOSE TO NOT BE DOWN SYNDROME OK.

 

[cookie.banana]

loquasagoochoo has been making pretty top threads lately
like, i haven't been posting in them
but... they're still mentally stimulating i'm sure

 

[Iron]

lol ok

hey i was born with down syndrome. i know it's genetic, BUT I CAN CHOOSE TO NOT BE DOWN SYNDROME OK.

Every human being has a particular demon to battle throughout their life. The point is not the demon itself, but your fighting spirit.