SRC Election Results 2005 - the Post-Mortem (2 Viewers)

[walrusbear]

When you give someone an advantage, you disadvantage other people. While there is not a level playing field outside of the university environment, I think you would be hard pressed to claim women are disadvantaged at university.

They achieve better than males.
There are more females than males.
etc.

So why does it make sense to continue to have structures in place to give women this artifical advantage, when they are now achieving better then men?

are males honestly 'disadvantaged' by the women's collective??

 

[Calculon]

are males honestly 'disadvantaged' by the women's collective??

They are put at a financial disadvantage, yes.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes, it provides female-specific support structures which males do not have. It offers a voice for women when it comes to subject matters etc

By providing women with such advantages, and a voice, while giving males no specific voice, and no specific advantages it does disadvantage men.

Therefore since we are living in a time where women are achieving considerably better than men, either you need to set up the same structures for men, or remove the structures for women.

 

[walrusbear]

They are put at a financial disadvantage, yes.

because they're not paying for services directly benefitting them?

 

[jordanv]

because they're not paying for services directly benefitting them?

how is it indirectly benefitting males to enforce the dominance of the female majority?

 

[walrusbear]

Yes, it provides female-specific support structures which males do not have. It offers a voice for women when it comes to subject matters etc

It offers support structures that are specifically for women, for issues not directed at men.

By providing women with such advantages, and a voice, while giving males no specific voice, and no specific advantages it does disadvantage men.

Therefore since we are living in a time where women are achieving considerably better than men, either you need to set up the same structures for men, or remove the structures for women.

how do men not have a voice??
how does women's collective marginalise men?
the idea is that men statistically 'have things easier', and there is no existing disadvantage for men, thus no need for empowering structures

 

[jordanv]

the idea is that men statistically 'have things easier', and there is no existing disadvantage for men, thus no need for empowering structures

provide these statistics please.

I was under the impression that females outperform males at university.

do not include anything unrelated to a university education also.

 

[walrusbear]

how is it indirectly benefitting males to enforce the dominance of the female majority?

this isn't about the benefit of males
it's about the issues for women

i don't see how assisting women deprives men. since there is already an imbalance...

 

[jordanv]

this isn't about the benefit of males
it's about the issues for women

i don't see how assisting women deprives men. since there is already an imbalance...

I think you will find I am saying that the imbalance is the other way at university.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

the idea is that men statistically 'have things easier', and there is no existing disadvantage for men, thus no need for empowering structures

But it's obvious that is not true if we look at the result, males are becomming a marginalised group in university (certainly more-so than women), with no specific voice when they have a male perspective on an issue.

Men have a voice, the same voice as the general population of the university. They have no delegate who can fight for the male perspective on issues.

This leads us to a situation where you have quite a bit less men than women, and men performing much worse than women at university.

i don't see how assisting women deprives men. since there is already an imbalance...

If there is an imbalance (women in far lower numbers at university than men, women getting lower marks), then there is a need for support for women to assist them.

However now that we have the reverse, either you should get rid of the female support structure or institute a male specific support structure.

 

[walrusbear]

provide these statistics please.

I was under the impression that females outperform males at university.

do not include anything unrelated to a university education also.

i'm not fishing out stats for you

for one example, the women's collective assists in services for female students in regards to childcare, sexual assault & harrassment etc.

 

[jordanv]

i'm not fishing out stats for you

for one example, the women's collective assists in services for female students in regards to childcare, sexual assault & harrassment etc.

so sexual assault & harrassment and childcare are issues faced only by women?

why isnt that a general function of the SRC if that is what we want the funds to go to?

sexism at work.

 

[Calculon]

i'm not fishing out stats for you

for one example, the women's collective assists in services for female students in regards to childcare, sexual assault & harrassment etc.

Many of those within the women's collective consider being called chicks or girls discrimination/harrassment. Now where can I go to if I take objection to being called a guy or having a group which i am a part of referred to as "the boys"?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well of course sexual assault, harassment etc should not be on for males or females
and childcare isn't exactly a females only thing either (tho that is slightly picking at straws).

Most of these things should probably be supported by the university, but while females have these problems, so do males. The preferential special treatment is there because females have the traditional victim role, but in the university environment I feel there is quite a good argument that they are not the victim at all.

Personally I don't like the negative perception of straight males by those in the queer collective or the womens collective. It offends me that they can talk about straight males in the ways that they often do, these sort of generalisations hurt as much as "women are weak".

 

[walrusbear]

But it's obvious that is not true if we look at the result, males are becomming a marginalised group in university (certainly more-so than women), with no specific voice when they have a male perspective on an issue.

Men have a voice, the same voice as the general population of the university. They have no delegate who can fight for the male perspective on issues.

This leads us to a situation where you have quite a bit less men than women, and men performing much worse than women at university.



If there is an imbalance (women in far lower numbers at university than men, women getting lower marks), then there is a need for support for women to assist them.

However now that we have the reverse, either you should get rid of the female support structure or institute a male specific support structure.

what is the 'male perspective' on issues?
the women's collective exists because typically they are the marginalised gender

even if women now represent a fair amount of students and grades, why can't the women's collective exist for support with women related sexual, lifestyle issues?

 

[walrusbear]

so sexual assault & harrassment and childcare are issues faced only by women?

why isnt that a general function of the SRC if that is what we want the funds to go to?

sexism at work.

because sexual harrassment is typically suffered a lot more by females. the implications of this are quited different for the both genders. so a gender specific approach to dealing with the issue makes sense

 

[Calculon]

because sexual harrassment is typically suffered a lot more by females

So because poverty in Australia is experienced primarily by white people we should only offer welfare services to them?

 

[jordanv]

because sexual harrassment is typically suffered a lot more by females

black people typically commit more crimes than whites

so lets concentrate on arresting black suspects

you can't seriously defend the women's collective position on this issue as being "equal"

 

[Calculon]

what is the 'male perspective' on issues?
the women's collective exists because typically they are the marginalised gender

even if women now represent a fair amount of students and grades, why can't the women's collective exist for support with women related sexual, lifestyle issues?

Because they will already be represented by the rest of the overtly "equality+1" SRC. They are not marginalised in uni politics, and this is the frame of reference within which we are conducting this argument.

 

[walrusbear]

So because poverty in Australia is experienced primarily by white people we should only offer welfare services to them?

black people typically commit more crimes than whites

so lets concentrate on arresting black suspects

i'm not saying that males shouldn't have support systems for victims.

by comparison to women it is less of an issue, however.
practically it makes sense to focus on support for women since it generally affects them more and gender specific support is more beneficial for those involved