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student guild elections - empower vs. vision (1 Viewer)
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rukawasan
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hes the president of hte unsw union... no the unsw guildstamos said:
u pay abt 250dollars every year... 150 of that goes to the union, which subsidises ur food in uni and operates the uni bar, etc, basically providing services...
the other 100dollars goes to the guild, which is meant to be the representative body for students on campus.. to make sure that the interests of the students are fairly represented in any decision made by the uni administrators...
the uni board approved the 30percent increase in hecs fees because the current guild, run by student first (vision in disguise) sat on its ass and did nothing...
in UWS the guild made strong representations to their board and in the end the board succumbed to pressure and rejected the increase...
thats what power is trying to do...
Nick
foregone conclusion
how can they all have this letter at the same time????rukawasan said:
smells like conspiracy to commit fraudulent negligence
anyway seriously how can you guys stop the government from raising HECS costs, and what does it all mean for me in the future when i gotta start paying back HECS. does it mean that next year etc the prices of all the subjects will be higher
rukawasan
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we photocopied the letter and gave it to everyone of our campaigners because no doubt vision will try to spin some bs... and the letter is evidenceNick said:
no we cant stop the government raising taxes... but the guild is the representative body for students on campus... and what vision (student first) did this yr was sit on its ass and do nothing... the guild in UWS made strong representations to their uni board... and in the end the board succumbed to the pressure and refused to approve the increase in hecs...
thats what power is trying to do...
rukawasan
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as manoj said in the election debate last thursday... power will fund and organise a campaign across campus to pressue the unsw council to pass a second bill anulling the first oneMinai said:
and by the way... power, being a ticket consisting broadly of centre left and broad left, is the only party who will campaign, and who has the experience to campaign...
whens the last time u saw the liberals campaign for student interest? 1960s?
Nick
foregone conclusion
yes i did consider that you may have photocopied the letterrukawasan said:
haven't they already approved the increase anyway
from what i hear there is basically no chance of making the uni board change their mind on the issue
tonberry_kun
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is just fucken lawyers vs. doctors isn't it?rukawasan said:
Rukawasan, you don't happen to be a law student do you? Didn't you see my post on the previous page? I support VSU, I don't support vision, and I don't support power.
I'm fully aware of the 10,000 dollar stunt Courtney Roche pulled with the lawyers using us students' money.
Since you were discussing power, I brought up power's endeavours last year. I'm not impressed with either power or vision's track record.
So I guess that means you can put the groundless association between med students and vision back in your intellectual bin where all your other election propoganda should have stayed
(Remember the way to woo a swinging voter isn't to attack them based on their degree).
Some more?
Contrary to what you've been saying, the fee increases don't affect us (current students), they affect future students
I'm fully aware of the 10,000 dollar stunt Courtney Roche pulled with the lawyers using us students' money.
Since you were discussing power, I brought up power's endeavours last year. I'm not impressed with either power or vision's track record.
So I guess that means you can put the groundless association between med students and vision back in your intellectual bin where all your other election propoganda should have stayed
(Remember the way to woo a swinging voter isn't to attack them based on their degree). Some more?
You should try stand up - you really think students protesting would achieve anything at UNSW. There's no way they're going to reverse it now, unless a Labor govt gets in then it's possible, but then, it wouldn't be caused by power.rukawasan said:
Well first, UWS and UNSW are vastly different unis. Why the hell would they take of the 30% cos excitable Manoj wants it to go away? Do you really believe that Manoj will get this 30% fee increase taken away?rukawasan said:
Contrary to what you've been saying, the fee increases don't affect us (current students), they affect future students
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rukawasan said:
shit i just read this
what a fucking waste of money!!
i cant believe that party plans to waste our fucking fees on that shit
youve just motivated me to vote for the most popular non-'power' party
fucking waste of money cunts
underthesun
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hey if theres doctors and lawyers party, wheres one for engineers and the like?
theone123
blue essence
vote POWER [1] , hehe well the red shirts
yeah fuck i was thinking thatContrary to what you've been saying, the fee increases don't affect us (current students), they affect future students
contrary to popular belief, the children aren't our future
fuck 'em
B
Bambul
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rukawasan: Your arguments lack depth, have a large number of untruths and is at times baseless propaganda. It is full of holes, uses scare tactics and the original post looks like you were trying to make it look like you were an independent commentator on this election rather than someone campaigning to get Power elected (as shown by your reference to Power as "we").
I will now refute a number of your arguments:
1. "steve legg, who single-handedly increased ur union fees three times last yr"
Union fees went up (ONCE) a few dollars last year, if I remember correctly - about in line with CPI. Steve Legg is one member of a 13 member union board. I would be very surprised if that statement is based on any factual evidence at all.
He was also a member of the same union board that fought to get students to send letters to the independent senators to stop the VSU legislation getting through. This seems inconsitent with your argument of not voting in people who don't care about their students (see point 3).
2. "hes [Steve Legg] the current activies director of student first, which is in office now, and student first if i might remind u, is a load of crap"
Steve Legg left Students First and formed Vision. Just as Gulfam Ahmed left Students First last year to form Power. If you accuse Vision of just being Students First in disguise, then Power must also be Students First in disguise.
3. "presumably campaign hard for a stop to hecs increase just as what a similar faction in UWS did last yr"
There is virtually no chance of the Guild being able to do anything to make the University Council change its decision. It is not a democratically elected body (only 2 members are students). UWS is a very different university many of whose students could much less afford an increase in their HECS whereas UNSW's students by and large can. I'm not supporting the decision to do so, but it's not going to be changed.
4. "did u know hes [Steve Legg] got something like over 20 sexual harassment complaints against him"
This is a vicious rumour started by Power last year because they don't know how to win an election without playing dirty. If you can show me evidence of this then I'd very much like to see it.
5. "vision (which is actually student first in disguise cos they've already got such a bad rep they need to change their name to disassociate themselves)"
I refer you to point 2. If Vision is Students First in disguise then why is Students First also running a ticket. Add to that the fact that the Students First ticket is the one that actually has Students First people from this year (other than Steve Legg) running on it - Predident candidate Calen Thurston (current Secretary/treasurer), Vice-President candidate Patricia Marinozzi (current Women's Director) and Women's Director candidate Courtney Roche (current President).
But according to your argument Vision (whose only current Students First office bearer candidate is Steve Legg) is just Students First in disguise whilst conveniently not mentioning the Students First ticket (which has 3 current Students First office bearers).
6. "power did get disqualified last yr...the unsw ombudsman found in our favour"
Agreed. Power was disqualified for breaking a rule in a very minor way (having a single non-UNSW student campaign for about 15 mins) and handled by the returning officer (a member of Students First) in a very unproffessional way. However, this is not what I would consider an argument for voting for Power.
7. "coupla yrs from now... if ur paying thousands of dollars extra for ur hecs... think back and rmb that u could have made a difference"
Someone has already mentioned that the 25% increase in HECS will not affect anyone already at uni (not 30% as you have continually mentioned - your failure to get your facts right in this and many other occasions whilst trying to speak with so much authority does, frankly, concern me).
For the record - I am not campaigning for any ticket, nor have I ever campaigned or run for any Guild (or Union) election.
I will now refute a number of your arguments:
1. "steve legg, who single-handedly increased ur union fees three times last yr"
Union fees went up (ONCE) a few dollars last year, if I remember correctly - about in line with CPI. Steve Legg is one member of a 13 member union board. I would be very surprised if that statement is based on any factual evidence at all.
He was also a member of the same union board that fought to get students to send letters to the independent senators to stop the VSU legislation getting through. This seems inconsitent with your argument of not voting in people who don't care about their students (see point 3).
2. "hes [Steve Legg] the current activies director of student first, which is in office now, and student first if i might remind u, is a load of crap"
Steve Legg left Students First and formed Vision. Just as Gulfam Ahmed left Students First last year to form Power. If you accuse Vision of just being Students First in disguise, then Power must also be Students First in disguise.
3. "presumably campaign hard for a stop to hecs increase just as what a similar faction in UWS did last yr"
There is virtually no chance of the Guild being able to do anything to make the University Council change its decision. It is not a democratically elected body (only 2 members are students). UWS is a very different university many of whose students could much less afford an increase in their HECS whereas UNSW's students by and large can. I'm not supporting the decision to do so, but it's not going to be changed.
4. "did u know hes [Steve Legg] got something like over 20 sexual harassment complaints against him"
This is a vicious rumour started by Power last year because they don't know how to win an election without playing dirty. If you can show me evidence of this then I'd very much like to see it.
5. "vision (which is actually student first in disguise cos they've already got such a bad rep they need to change their name to disassociate themselves)"
I refer you to point 2. If Vision is Students First in disguise then why is Students First also running a ticket. Add to that the fact that the Students First ticket is the one that actually has Students First people from this year (other than Steve Legg) running on it - Predident candidate Calen Thurston (current Secretary/treasurer), Vice-President candidate Patricia Marinozzi (current Women's Director) and Women's Director candidate Courtney Roche (current President).
But according to your argument Vision (whose only current Students First office bearer candidate is Steve Legg) is just Students First in disguise whilst conveniently not mentioning the Students First ticket (which has 3 current Students First office bearers).
6. "power did get disqualified last yr...the unsw ombudsman found in our favour"
Agreed. Power was disqualified for breaking a rule in a very minor way (having a single non-UNSW student campaign for about 15 mins) and handled by the returning officer (a member of Students First) in a very unproffessional way. However, this is not what I would consider an argument for voting for Power.
7. "coupla yrs from now... if ur paying thousands of dollars extra for ur hecs... think back and rmb that u could have made a difference"
Someone has already mentioned that the 25% increase in HECS will not affect anyone already at uni (not 30% as you have continually mentioned - your failure to get your facts right in this and many other occasions whilst trying to speak with so much authority does, frankly, concern me).
For the record - I am not campaigning for any ticket, nor have I ever campaigned or run for any Guild (or Union) election.
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rukawasan
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Bambul...
in response to what u have said, heres my reply...
if u bothered to pick up "The Guild Election Guide", which was available today and turn to the preference flows page, u'll notice that the student first ticket thats running this year, is only a shell ticket, its purpose exists to preference votes to vision,
there are only two active ppl really in student first, calen thurston and patricia marinozzi
dont u think its suspicious that a ticket, as powerful as student first could only muster enough support to run only two active ppl?
and do u think a serious ticket would only run 2 of its own candidate for council A and preference the other 13spots to vision, or preference steve legg for president, and tegal alchin for vice, and susan havyatt for vision, it obviously exists only to preference votes for vision...
true, steve legg broke away from student first, but he took almost the entire support base and members from student first with him when he broke, in effect, running studnet first under a different name (if u havent gotten hold of one of these booklets yet... do so)
also hkss, which traditionally ran with student first, collapsed its own ticket to run with vision, and hkss, if u know them, is a long time studnet first supporter, why would they swing their suppor to vision for no reason, obviously something suss there...
and u noe what... heres an interesting bit of news i think u would like to know...
teh RO today caught vision red-handed having off-campus campaigners campaignign for them, the exact same breach they got power disqualified last yr... they will be penalised for it... but not disqualified... how they will be penalised, i do not know yet, thats the RO's discretion... so there you go... they breached the same regulation that they worked so hard on to get us disqualified last yr...
in response to those sexual harassment complaints against steve legg last year, they are entirely true, if u do not believe me, then go and check...
and finally, why are all u guys so cynical about student politics, ok, we cant promise u we can definitely stop the hecs increase, and we will do our damnest to give it a go, last year, usyd and uts ran open campaigns against the hecs increase, and as a result of that they brought media coverage and attention from the labour and democrats, etc, and enventually forced the govt to reduce the increase from 30% to 25%... that is the role of the student guild, to make representations on behalf of students for students... and thats exactly what manoj intends to do, whether or not he succeeds, hes doing it in the students own best interest, would you rather let steve legg spend ur money on a few measley sausage sizzles every year as opposed to funding worthwhile campaigns that if nothing else, raise awareness of student interest?
dont be so cynicall
in response to what u have said, heres my reply...
if u bothered to pick up "The Guild Election Guide", which was available today and turn to the preference flows page, u'll notice that the student first ticket thats running this year, is only a shell ticket, its purpose exists to preference votes to vision,
there are only two active ppl really in student first, calen thurston and patricia marinozzi
dont u think its suspicious that a ticket, as powerful as student first could only muster enough support to run only two active ppl?
and do u think a serious ticket would only run 2 of its own candidate for council A and preference the other 13spots to vision, or preference steve legg for president, and tegal alchin for vice, and susan havyatt for vision, it obviously exists only to preference votes for vision...
true, steve legg broke away from student first, but he took almost the entire support base and members from student first with him when he broke, in effect, running studnet first under a different name (if u havent gotten hold of one of these booklets yet... do so)
also hkss, which traditionally ran with student first, collapsed its own ticket to run with vision, and hkss, if u know them, is a long time studnet first supporter, why would they swing their suppor to vision for no reason, obviously something suss there...
and u noe what... heres an interesting bit of news i think u would like to know...
teh RO today caught vision red-handed having off-campus campaigners campaignign for them, the exact same breach they got power disqualified last yr... they will be penalised for it... but not disqualified... how they will be penalised, i do not know yet, thats the RO's discretion... so there you go... they breached the same regulation that they worked so hard on to get us disqualified last yr...
in response to those sexual harassment complaints against steve legg last year, they are entirely true, if u do not believe me, then go and check...
and finally, why are all u guys so cynical about student politics, ok, we cant promise u we can definitely stop the hecs increase, and we will do our damnest to give it a go, last year, usyd and uts ran open campaigns against the hecs increase, and as a result of that they brought media coverage and attention from the labour and democrats, etc, and enventually forced the govt to reduce the increase from 30% to 25%... that is the role of the student guild, to make representations on behalf of students for students... and thats exactly what manoj intends to do, whether or not he succeeds, hes doing it in the students own best interest, would you rather let steve legg spend ur money on a few measley sausage sizzles every year as opposed to funding worthwhile campaigns that if nothing else, raise awareness of student interest?
dont be so cynicall